new partner and dd

[Damsel]

Has anyone any experience of a father who insists that his new partner is involved in every visit with DD. He lives in a different country and only visits every 2-3 months but since he met his new partner, he refuses now to spend any time with DD on their own and tries to make DD feel guilty about excluding his partner. She is only 9 and very hurt and upset by it. She has tried to speak to him about it but he pretends to listen and does what he wants anyway, which is typical of him. He refuses to talk to me about it and said he's entitled to do as he pleases. His partner does not have children and she sounds like a nice person and even though my DD says she "hates" her and she's "ugly," I think her issue is with her Dad, not this woman but it's difficult to be angry at your own Dad. Far easier to project it onto this woman. I know he found our break up very hard 6 years ago and spent a long time (right up until he met this woman) trying to persuade me to change my mind so it was a relief that he met someone else and I never anticipated these problems. I hate to see DD so hurt and confused and I don't want her to feel that her wishes are being ignored or are unimportant. I think if the partner's involvement in the visits was done more gradually my DD would just get to know her a bit more slowly and at her own pace and wouldn't feel that this woman is preventing her having time on her own with her Dad, which is sadly what's happened. I've offered to meet this woman in the hope that it might reassure my DD but my ex really does not want us to meet. If anyone has any advice as to how to help my daughter cope with it better or any tips to persuade my ex that this isn't about him or I, it's about a little girl who just wants to have time on her own with her Dad. I think he feels that he'll be giving in to me if he changes his position now and I think he's convinced his partner that I'm jealous of her! I was actually his 2nd wife and so I have experience of how he talks about his ex wives!

Hi Damsel,
I don't have any experience with such a situation but I find it indeed a bit strange that your ex does not see his daughter on his own any longer. It must look to your daughter as if she was second choice to him and it is no surprise she feels very angry and probably sad about it. Can you give us some more details. How far does your ex live away, since when is he seing this new woman, does your daughter go to his place to see him or does he only come to your country?

I honestly do think though that you need to address the problem with your ex partner. You don't really know what is going on here. Meetings between exw and new gf are not that productive in my experience.

Hi Shalotta, my daughter refuses to go stay with them but she was never happy to stay with her Dad anyway and only ever stayed with him a handful of times on her own. He left the UK after we separated and didn't visit her for almost 3 years so I flew her to him and we'd stay in a hotel. She spent the days with him but nights with me. For the most part, that was fine, though obviously not ideal as my daughter kept asking him to come to the UK but he wouldn't so he never attended a school event or birthday. I really just wanted her to have a relationship with him and I've always tried to be civil, even friendly towards him, in front of her because it's hard enough being a child of separated parents but they shouldn't have to see you arguing. After 3 years or so, he did make a couple of trips to visit her but only did so if I asked him to, never of his own volition. Then when he moved in with his partner 6 months ago, he had a new-found interest in coming to visit but with his partner. Each visit has been very upsetting for my daughter because she really feels that he's not listening to her. I've suggested, as a compromise, that he spend a part of the visit with my daughter on their own and then a part with his partner and my daugther but he refuses point blank and said it's nothing to do with me and I have no right to tell him how he can see his child. I spoke with him again recently about it and he's told me that this is the way it is and she has to get used to it because millions of kids do. I don't know if his partner wants to be involved in the visits or if it's him who insists that she comes. He is essentially a bully and comes from a family where he always got his own way and if you don't like it, you can leave. Adults can make that choice but alas, a child isn't equipped to deal with these matters. I don't know if it's better that she never sees him at all or how to handle it. At the end of the day he's her Dad and my aim was always to get her to an age where she could make up her own mind about him.

I have experience of it...slightly reversed. My ex (DS mum) as soon as she met her new partner (within 4 weeks of meeting him) made it like "they were one". My DS was introduced to his new dad. He always had to talk to the new partner (on phone when not there), obey, disciplined, hug, -- effectively treat new partner as one and the same as his mum. Personally I think its more to do with "including the new partner" or "replacing the old"

He was 4 - is now 5. He now sees them as one, and him as a.n.other. So it's always mum & partner say this, or do this, or mum & partner house etc etc. I think over the last year he has barely seen mum alone.

I can not offer advice, since my situation has gone from friendly to extreme hostility. New partner intervenes in all discussions or decisions. I believe new partner also does not want my ex and me to have even a civil relationship - maybe for same reasons as yours.

I don't think there is anything that can be done. It's the other side's loss. I simply make sure that DS is secure here to compensate and minimise the effect. Talking to the ex is pointless - it will be taken in the interpretation they (plural) want.

Incidentally her interest in DS also only picked up/renewed once she got her new partner. Shame really.

If they live together then she is effectively his wife, living together for 6 months makes it sound as though they have known each other for a while. If they travel to the UK together then I can understand him wanting his daughter to accept the woman who is in all bar the ceremony, her stepmother. If you lived with a man then you would expect your daughter to accept him.
I agree it would be good for your daughter if she got some time alone with her dad, and my husband often goes out with his kids alone, but if we were travelling to another country to see them I wouldn't be expected to be shunted out of sight as though I don't exist.
I think non-resident parents have a much harder job getting their ex and children to accept their new partner/spouse than resident parents.

Wildfish, thank you for that input. Did you leave your ex? I wondered if my ex was insisting on including his new partner to show me that - whilst I might not want him - someone else now does. It just seemed odd to me that he had never, in 5 years, offered to come visit his child until he met someone new and for the first 3 years, he refused to come visit her at all. I know there's an element of him feeling better about himself because he's that kind of person and his main concern with me leaving him (& his 1st wife) is how others would view him as a result. He also had told me when he first met his partner through work (and they were at the lunching stage) that they had both admitted to each other that they'd rather be with their exes. I found that difficult to believe. I can't imagine any self-respecting woman admitting that to a possible new boyfriend. But whatever the reasons for his behaviour, the whole concept of how it's affecting his child is lost on him, which is very sad. And like your ex, it's all "we" and "our." She owns the house they live in and he described her as being "well set up" but within minutes of him moving in, it was "our" house. She has no idea how difficult she's going to have it if she ever wants him out! It's just terribly sad though to see a child's needs and feelings being totally ignored and I know he's not going to change his position.

Thanks 2rebecca. I don't think anyone expects her to be shunted out of sight, but a compromise might be nice or even a willingness to consider my daughter's feelings. He's basically refusing to spend any time with her on her own. I suspect that initially he was trying to prove to his partner that he's a hands-on Dad. He could hardly tell her that he'd only travelled to visit his child 5 times in 5 years. I think he also wanted to show me that someone else wanted him, even if I didn't. He's very pre-occupied with how others view him. However, when my daughter reacted so negatively to his partner coming with him on the first visit, and I tried to speak to him about it, it became a huge issue and he's dug his heels in and it's been like that ever since. He moved in to his partner's house within a couple of months of meeting her. She was living with someone else and he moved out and my ex moved in. I think he was quite happy not to have to pay rent anymore and he's much happier when there's someone else paying the bills! I don't actually think we'll find a resolution. It's always been his way or the high way! But I thought others might have a perspective to offer that might help me find a resolution. These forums are all new to me but I've been reading lots of old chats about new partners, step mothers etc. and I'm actually shocked at how little regard people have for their own children and also their partner's children. It's very much a case of people moving on to the next partner and the kids have to put up with it, whether they like it or not.

Damsel, I have no experience of this specifically. But...

As a stepmother, I encourage my partner to spend time with his kids alone - infact tonight, my partner has taken his son (who's here for the week) for a meal and to the cinema - my suggestion. If your ex can keep some contact short, say a couple of hours, I see no reason why your ex's partner or at least your ex should not wish for this too. I'm sure his partner can find something to do for a few hours once in a wile.

As a mother, I wouldn't force my kids (as long as they can let me know how they feel) to spend time with someone they're not comfortable with. Your ex spent 3 years out of face to face contact with your daughter - so he needs to take things slowly and rebuild a relationship (and maybe bond) with her. When my daughter didn't like staying with her dad, I asked him to come over and read her a bedtime story and they slowly rebuilt their relationship. Even now, she sometimes doesn't want to go off with him, and we don't make her.

Another perspective - my mum left when I was young, and moved on with her life. After little contact with her, and over time, I felt no bond and to spend time with her would have been like tolerating hanging round with an almost stranger. That needs to be sorted out if that's the case for your daughter. Also I can understand your daughter not wanting to rebuild a relationship with her dad while there's another stranger in tow. It's hard enough as it is.

I understand your ex and his partner wanting to do things together, but I think they should be fair and give the situation time. Why should it all be how the adults want it! I guess your ex hasn't told his partner how much rebuilding of a relationship (and possibly bond) with his daughter he needs to do. But, that's tough! In the best interests of your daughter, I'd insist he works on that first. Yes, he's got to travel abroad and it's costly and limited in terms of time, but in time, if and when he builds a father - daughter relationship, he will be able to spend more time with her. It just sounds like your daughter's feelings are not really being considered by him. He needs to take things more slowly and involve his partner now and then in some activities, not 100% of the time of each visit.

Mrsjammi, you're absolutely right. My ex does think I'm trying to dictate access and both he and his partner probably think my daughter's feelings are really coming from me. I came across a lot of posts from new partners who believe that the child's hositility towards them is really coming from their Mother. I'm sure it's true in some cases, depending on the circumstances, but it's not always true. I think my DD actually likes this woman and she seems to be have been very sweet to my DD, which is very reassuring for me, but every child wants time alone with a parent whether the parents are separated or not. It's not an unreasonable request for her to make and it should never have escalated into such an issue. I did get her to understand that this woman loved her Dad and she should make the effort to get to know her and I know she has been well behaved and courteous towards her, which I'm thankful for! But we've had some very upsetting incidents like him coming to collect her (the partner waits in a hotel or coffee shop nearby) and she wants to show him her violin playing or her school work or whatever and he's rushing her because they have to go meet the partner and then he apologises to the partner, in front of my daughter, for taking so long but said that DD wanted to show him some stuff. Clueless.

theoptimist, my DD wasn't out of face to face contact with him because I flew her over to him every few weeks and we stayed in a hotel close to where he lived and she spent the day with him but would rarely stay with him. For the majority of that time, he paid no maintenance at all and I paid for all the expenses associated with the trip but if I hadn't done that, my DD would never have seen him and I wanted her to have a relationship with him and have a Father she could talk about in school and to her friends even if he was never seen at the school. I wanted to facilitate her maintaining contact with him until she was old enough to do it herself or not, as may well be the case.
I think most people recognise the importance of a child having time with the parent alone. But mrsjammi is right - my ex is not going to change. He's a very arrogant person and I also think he'd see it as giving in to me. One of my difficulties is that I don't want my DD going through life thinking her Father gets to dictate the terms of their relationship and she has no say or she thinks her views aren't worthy of his respect. One of the reasons I left him was because I couldn't have her growing up looking at us as an example of a marriage and I didn't want her thinking that men bullying their wives was acceptable behaviour. My dilemma now is whether it will do her more damage having this sort of relationship with him where it's all about how he wants it to be or whether not seeing him at all would be more damaging. Thank you both for taking the time to reply.