"Not my son"?

[nusch]

Hello step-parents - interested in other people's views on something dh and I just had a big row about!

I have a 13 year old stepson who I've known since he was 2 but only lived with us for about 18 months. I also have a 2yo daughter.

Since s/son moved in have done a lot of "mother" stuff for him - cooking, tidying, doctor + dentist, arranging trips to his mum, etc. Also share responsibility with dh for discipline, etc as we are all living in same house and I feel it's to my benefit as well as his if I do. I also most domestic stuff for dd, although dh shares cooking/shopping.

To get to point s/son has been doing not so good at school and dh has decided we should have a homework strategy. I said that I was happy to support it, but I thought it was mostly dh's responsibility (espcially as I'm putting dd to bed every evening). Dh got really angry and said he would never put a blanket ban on anything. (No - just the list of things it would never occur to him to do!)

I ended up saying - what I really feel - that he's not my son and although I'll do my best for him I'll never feel as I do with dd (eg if he doesn't do well at school I'll be sorry but it won't upset me). Dh seemed shocked but surely that's the natural way to feel? Isn't it???

nusch, as the mother of two children, the eldest of whom is my husbands step child, I have had a similar argument from the opposite angle and I have to say that I have been really shocked by the fact that in reality my husband feels as you do. I find it hurtful partly because it is a sentiment that probably should not be expressed (IMHO) and also because it means the children get treated differently (however much this is denied) and the children do notice this. Furthermore, I personally took it as a criticism of my daughter and the way I've raised my daughter, which might not be logical but they are both my children and I feel exactly the same about them so it is actually very hard for me - emotionally - to take the fact that the man I love and who loves me, the man I maried and whom I allowed to be so central in my daughters life feels the way he does about her. I have to say in his defence he has said from a very early stage that he loves her but it's different to the love he feels for his son and whilst the intelligent me can rationalise this the emotional me is shocked and a little saddened. My daughter has no contact with her father (which may or may not be relevant) but there is a very, very tiny bit of me that feels the fact that this has been expressed means I have somehow let her down.

I would like to add that this is not a big issue between any of us. It is simply how it is and how we feel.

Know how you feel Nusch,
I've got a step DD,I have known her since she was 10 months old, she is now 8yo, and although I care about her, I don't love her the same as my own DS's. I sometimes feel guilty about this, but yes, it is perfectly natural,IMO.

Also, as for the situation with the home work, I think that in many, "normal" households the tasks would be shared between parents, ie...Dad helps older kid with home work, Mum puts younger one to bed.
Whats his problem ???

It's interesting for me to see both sides of this - yours nusch and yours winnie. I have 3 step children and although I love them, it aint the same, no matter what. For me anyway.
But reading winnie's bit, I can begin to understand how the other parent must feel, faced with this as a spoken out loud reality. I think this is maybe what was going on for your dh, nusch - not the nitty gritty about who supervises who doing what and when. The fact that he knows (probably always subconciously knew) that you would not love his son as he does, must bring up all sorts of upsetting feelings for him - just like winnie experiences. You feel angry with him for not seeing that you have other committments at the homework hour but what he is feeling is just as upsetting as you, maybe more so.
Step parenting is just the hardest, most thankless task there is - no matter what, you always end up upsetting someone - be it you, your dp, the ex or the children. It is like a fine balencing act and you can't always be expected to get it right. Infact it's impossible. You have said something which is true, a bit of a bump bump down to earth reality, and you and your dh have to both come to terms with it. Thinking of you xxx

I haven't any constructive advice but just give my thoughts as a step-child - my step-dad married my mum when I was three (my own father had died before I was born so I never knew him) - I honestly feel he has made more than human efforts in the way he treated me and, whilst I went through some really horrible stages of telling friends I had a 'wicked step-father' etc etc - I am now (as a parent myself) quite overwhelmed at the wonderful way he treated me; he never showed an once more affection towards his two sons (my half brothers) - on the subject of homework he spent ages with me struggling over maths homework - which of course I hated at the time - but now I am very grateful. We don't have a 'lovey-dovey' type relationship - that's just not his style - he's not like that with my brothers either - but we get on well as adults.

Sorry nusch I haven't really answered your comments but I sympathise with the situation, I understand how you feel, but can see your DH's point of view too, perhaps it is best not to be quite so 'honest' in these situations.

Reading this thread makes me frightened for my ds. Dp is his stepfather and now I'm pregnant (dp's child). Dp is wonderful with ds but I wonder if this will change once he has his 'own' child? It seems so from reading this. Sorry, this doesn't help you nusch but FWIW I don't think you should have voiced these feelings either (although that doesn't make them invalid of course). But I can't imagine you'd have been terribly happy if it were the other way around and dh had said this about your son and his step son (iyswim?). Maybe this is just the way it is though? Sad if so. I also had a step father who wasn't great with us but I had my dad in my life a lot so somehow it didn't matter as much. Mind you, my ds has his dad in his life too so maybe even if a new baby does change things in our house it will be ok. Not expecting any replies, just thinking aloud I suppose about the whole step parenting thing.

wickedwaterwitch - I know exactly what you mean. My DH are expecting our first child together, and I have a DD from my first marriage. DH have been together since her first birthday and she is now 4. Her biological father hasn't seen her since last August and before then only a handful of times in the years since we split.

I worry that even though DH plans to adopt DD in the future once this baby arrives he will see his relationship with DD differently.

nusch, maybe your Dh was shocked as his DS is part of his family and so are you, but you don't see DS as a true part of your family. I've always worried that when the baby is born DD will realise that her bio dad has basically abandonned her, and that she will feel like a bit of an outsider despite our attempts to the contrary. Myabe your DH has been trying to make his DS feel part of your family and it is a painful revelation to see things from your point of view. I'm not saying your not entitled to your feelings, but a parent is often blinded to everything else when it comes to their children.

Reading all the answers here has made me very scared for my DD's feeling when she is older. Although as she has known DH for most of her life and her bio dad is a no hoper maybe things will be different

My dp has taken on 4 of my children as his own. I can not fault him for the way he treats them. I have 2 children to him aswell and he treats them all the same. On the other hand my dp has 2 ds from a previous. Even though they do not live with us they made my life hell for the first 5 years. (We have been together 8 years.) All they tried to do was get their "mum and dad" back together. I was really resentful as my children never treated dp like that and they had more respect for dp than the bio. My stepsons tried every trick in the book to split us up. in the end I could take no more so asked dp not to bring them in my company coz I was accused of allsorts of bad deeds. After 6 months of this my dp turned on them and gave them an ultimatum that if they did not treat me properly and with respect he did not want to see them again as he knew they were liars. The good news is since this has been stated to them I am really getting on with them and now they come to me for advice etc.So good things can come out of bad.

I don't know if there is a natural way to feel, Nusch. It probably depends on lots of things, such as character and personality as much as anything else. Some parents can't help but prefer one child over another even when they gave birth to them both.

Otoh, my mum took on two stepchildren when she married my dad and has never treated them any differently to my DB and me. She has never refered to them as her stepchildren and I don't believe she ever thinks of them in those terms, the same as I always think of them as being my full DB and DSis. Although we have all had 'issues' with my mother, I honestly think she has brought us up equally. I recall that when the first grandchild was born someone said to her that it wasn't really Mum's grandchild as she wasn't my sister's real mother, and she went ballistic!! Although biologically that person was right, emotionally she was totally wrong.

What has stuck in my mind, though, is that my DSis and DB's remaining family (their mother had died) treated my younger bro and me as outcasts and somehow less 'worthy'. They would send Xmas presents to DSis and DB and nothing for me and my younger DB. I just can't imagine being that mean.

This is probably of no use whatsoever but like WWW, I'm also just thinking out loud about the issues.

Wow, thanks for all these different perspectives - they've really made me think.

It's probably true that this was one of those feelings better not voiced (too late!). I honestly think it would have been quite different if ds had lived with us from when he was little and loving rather than a huge moody, wisecracking teenager. Or if his mother was not around - obviously she'll always be first with him. I do love him, tho', and also love his relationship with dd which is very warm.

But hey ho, I've realised reading this back that this is all much more about me and dh than me and ds. When ds moved in (not really planned, his mother just couldn't cope and suddenly there he was, us still in shock from a baby, hard for everyone)I tried really hard to treat him the way I thought I would my own child eg having a day when we played board games instead of watching TV, finding healthy food he liked to eat instead of junk, having family meetings to talk about plans, etc. Dh didn't really support any of it and I was too tired with dd and so gave up most of that.

Also dh's said a lot of things he's going to do with ds (play football regularly, help him with maths, take him abroad) and none of them have happened. And he says (only to me) quite often that he has mixed feelings about ds coming to live with us (he doesn't speak to his ex at all). I worry that I'll end up doing everything for dd AND ds. I worry that when dd is a teenager dh won't want to be bothered with her either. (He quite often says she'll be "trouble" when she's a teenager - not sure on what grounds, she's only two!). So I 'spect if dh and I were having less trouble with the whole parenting/division of labour thing the step parenting thing would be a lot easier too!

hello, nusch, i don't blame you for voicing your resentment to your dh and agree with you that the issue is really between you and him. i would not want to be landed with all the work and responsibility for a partner's child with no support from them. it's just not on imo.

hope you manage to work out a better modus vivendi for the family soon. good luck!

nusch, have to say that I completely empathise with the teenager/toddler scenario. The age difference between my children 13.5 & 2.5 is such that even having a family outing can be tricky and meeting the needs of both children is exhausting because those needs are so very different. What is your ss relationship like with your dd?

I do agree that your dp must pull his weight domestically, which is not about you being a step parent at all but about his parenting.
I do also have to agree that being a step parent is incredibly hard and taking on other peoples children is one hell of an amazing thing to do!!
Best wishes, Winnie

Sorry, somehow missed your point that the children have a lovely relationship... speed reading is not always a good idea

I have 2 SDs (now 13 & 16) and one SS (now 20), who are lovely and live with their mum. From the outset of my relationship with DP 5 years ago though (and long before DS was born) I made it clear that I was not their mum, did not feel like their mum, and did not want to play an active part in their lives. I'm afraid that you just can't pretend to have those feelings if they're not there. On several occasions over the last few years, it's been mooted that various of the children should/could come to stay with us, and I've said no on each occasion - fortunately having had the choice.

DP would - and still does - visit them every weekend, and while I explained that I supported him in this, fully understood his commitment, and admired him for keeping it up, I would not accompany him on a regular basis, and preferred to keep my weekend time for my own activities - admittedly usually shopping/cleaning, so that on the other weekend day DP and I could relax and do nice things together. I felt in many ways that this was also kinder to the kids. They did not want to see me particularly; they wanted to see their dad.

So I'm afraid that my unmaternal, uncharitable feelings were on the table from the word go,
years before DS was born. DP accepted my feelings in this, but he would always have preferred me to take a much more active part in his family life, and I think that he secretly hoped that when DS was born that I would transmogrify into some kind of earth mother type who would want to smother all under-18s with maternal loveliness (if so, he was to be disappointed!).

The big difference for you though is that you've got to live with SS and make a go of it. I think that under those circumstances you're really between a rock and a hard place, and it doesn't sound as if DP is helping much - as you say, it sounds to me as if you've got the root of the problem there - good luck in tackling it.

What surprises me is how socially unacceptable it is considered to be to voice these - in my view - perfectly natural feelings of lesser attachment to other people's children. If I ever touch on these feelings in conversation, people are generally quite shocked about it, but I do wonder how many of them would be prepared to take on other people's children - not many I bet.

Nusch I understand exactly how you feel and I think you've done a great job and been very accepting so far. I have an almost 17 yr old SS whom I've known for years and although I get along with him and quite like him as a person, there are NO maternal feelings whatsoever toward him and I do not particularly enjoy the more tedious aspects of the stepfamily situation. It has it's good times too, but in many cases it puts a lot of strain on a relationship.

As winnie and griffy have said, how many people would really take that commitment on full-time?!! IMO it is absolutely not your job to ensure that your dh's son does his homework - you already contribute by cooking his meals, taking care of him and having him live under your roof. There is no getting away from the fact that he is ultimately your dh's responsibility and you shouldn't have to take over the role that he himself should be playing. You are being very generous already and your dh should appreciate that.

But griffy and hollyo2, surely if you love someone (your dp or dh) then you agree to take on the people they love too? Isn't that part of the whole deal of commitment and love and marriage, especially if it's marriage to someone who already has children? I'm not being argumentative, I genuinely am interested.

I know this is a shallow illustration but in Cold Feet whathisname who was going out with Karen said "I love you but I don't love your children and I never can" and she said "Well, in that case you don't love me" and I can see her (well, the scriptwriter's) point (They split up for anyone who hasn't seen it).

Griffy, would you be happy for a friend of your ds's to stay a night or 2? If so, why not your step children? Presumably your dh would have preferred you to have taken an active and interested role in your stepchildrens' lives because, although he wants to share his life with you, they're a big part of his life and were long before you came along. I'm not saying your feelings are wrong, clearly not, they're your feelings and you're entitled to them but I am surprised I suppose by some of the views expressed here.

WWW - I agree that you do have to take on the children. Having said that, you can't help the way you feel about them sometimes, and when there are difficulties it must be tempting to wash your hands of them a bit. I guess what I'm saying is that while you should feel able to ackowledge your feelings (and your partner should try to understand them), IMO you should try not to let those feelings affect your behaviour towards the kids.

My aunt took on 3 step-kids, the oldest of which is only about 5 years younger than her. She had a nightmare with them for many years as they resented her and blamed her (with some justification!) for their parents' break-up. She took it all and continued to behave as their mother, and they eventually came to terms with her and now love and respect her. Nusch - your ss will not always be a child, but he will always be in your life and what you lay down now will determine how your relationship develops long-term.

I don't have experience myself of this but DH's step mother did little to make him and his brother feel included in the family when she moved in and it has had a big impact on him. Personally, I would hope to try and divide up household / parenting duties along the lines of what's fair and what suits rather than who is whose child.

WWW - Hmmm, tough questions. No, I don't believe that you cannot love someone without loving their children. I do think that it's a question, though, of how the parent presents themselves to a new partner. For instance, DP's children were living with their mother, and he presented himself to me very much as a free & single guy looking for someone similar. If he had his children living with him, and had retained that much more direct parental responsibility, then I do not believe that he would have been fulfilling those responsibilities in representing himself to me in the way that he did. He would - instead - have had to take a much stronger position with regards to them - and I do not believe that our relationship would have lasted.

In terms of SS & SDs staying a few nights, I'm sorry, I may have been unclear. I have a good, friendly relationship with them all, and they regularly come to stay with us for up to a fortnight at a time (individually or in twos, as we do not really have room for more than one of them to visit at once). I would not want them to come to LIVE with us was my meaning.

WWW, my post did sound a bit harshly put - I didn't mean to sound so matter of fact about it, but if you know anything of my situation it has been rather difficult for me in recent times. I have known SS since he was about 2, and have always had him to stay with us for weekends, holidays, etc and have generally had a good relationship with him. But as griffy also said, when I met dh, he barely saw his son or spent any time with him, told me he hadn't really enjoyed being a father, and definitely wasn't interested in the thought of more children. Being only 21 at the time (and rather inexperienced in these sorts of things), I proceeded to embark on an exciting relationship with him where we spent virtually all our time together and travelled a lot, etc. Our relationship was like that for about ten years.

Things have really changed though!! Life in the last couple of years for us has been more complicated, and I think you can develop a sense of resentment when your partner insists that their child comes to live with you (as is my case), and then barely has any time to devote to them. It's like it becomes more your responsibility than theirs, and I guess that is what I am objecting to. When you think about it, sure that child is part of your partner, but at the same time they are also part of your partner's ex-wife or husband. It's a very, very difficult thing and I agree that it takes a large degree of selflessness (on the part of the stepparent) for things to work. I just don't think the biological parent should take advantage of that.

Griffy - there was a recent incident (sorry, can't think of a better word) here on mumsnet when the natural mother died and at least one of the children had to come & live with Dad & step-mum, it was very difficult all round but ..... that sort of situation can always arise (even if Mum didn't die circumstances might change so that children would come & live with the other parent). I do think it is a very, very hard situation and you are honest to voice your concerns.

I know it's a bit hypothetical but I just could not imagine wanting to be with someone so much that I would be prepared to marry/live with someone who already had children - it just seems an emotional minefield (and, as I said earlier, I did have a very happy upbringing with a step-father!).

Holly02 - Rereading my message I thought that I sounded harsh too, but I think we've just been honest about our feelings.

Without writing War and Peace it's hard to express those feelings whilst also showing that those feelings are not transposed directly into behaviour towards our step-families, because of course our behaviour is moderated by consideration for their rights and feelings.

Lindy - you are so right, and I really admire the mums like Nusch who are dealing with this situation.

I must admit that the thought of anything happening to SS & SD's mother has occurred to me and filled me with dread. As the children grow older, the possibility of this affecting our lives has receded somewhat, though.

Each time I have thought about it I have decided not to dwell on the thought, but to cross the bridges if they come. I am certain, though, that that situation would be much worse for the children than for me, and I'd have to try to support them as best I could.

Griffy, I did misunderstand about the staying thing, yes, thanks for answering my questions. Interesting. I do know what you mean about other peoples' children - I genuinely like some and actively dislike others but try to hide it. As I'm not a step parent I can theorise all I like about how I think it should be but I don't really know what it's like to be there, I do appreciate that.

Likewise Holly02. I do know something about your circumstances atm and I am sorry your dh isn't pulling his weight which I gather is one of the big issues in your case. I do see your difficulty, really, and yours nusch. Interesting that in both cases a big part of it seems to be about the workload involved in parenting and how it's shared. The stepchild part just adds a different angle. NQWWW, I agree that these feelings should ideally be expressed in such a way that they don't affect the children but is this really possible? Children can be intuitive about these things.

Suedonim, your mum sounds lovely. Pie, it'll be interesting to compare notes once we have babies - our situations do sound similar in some ways.

Yes, children are intuitive and may well pick up the vibes that you feel differently about them. But at least if you make every effort to treat them in the same way you would your own child, you are doing your best I would have thought? If you don't love someone then you can't make yourself, but I think in these circumstances you have to behave as if you do. And IMO the more inclusive you are and the more you involve yourself in their lives, the more likely you will come to develop that relationship eventually.

Hello All

Although i don't have any children of my own, i do have 2 step-sons. They have been part of my life for a year now, and in that time my feelings for them have change so dramatically - and i have finally gotten to a stage that I can honestly put my hand on my heart and say that I do love having the both of them in my life. HOWEVER, I have absolutely no doubt that when/if I do have a child of my own, that the feelings for my biological child will be far stronger than that to my ss's. But I think this is 100% natural. It's like saying you love your nephews as much as you love your own children surely? Not true, but doesn't devalue the love you DO feel for them.

The added emotional complication I find I experience personally is my step-children are a constant reminder of the ex - through her children her presence is a constant shadow in my life, and as an ex I am not vastly wild about, it does interfere at times with my relationship with my bf. However I would never allow this to be known or felt by the kids. They are not accountable for whatever happends between the adults!

The other thing is that we are not these children's mothers, and neither should our partners EXPECT us to be that. IMO it would also be unwise and arrogant to try and be a "replacement" mum if she is still on the scene as it were. For example I never get out of bed if the youngest one wakes up crying in the night - it's not me he wants, it's his dad. But I will happily share bedtime stories, bath times, etc, but some things are just the natural parent's responsibilities as I see it.

Funnily enough I too had times when I would recoil with horror when thinking of the possibility of anything happening to the ex, and the kids having to come and live with us permanantly as a result. Part of me now thinks it would make things easier not having her breathing down out necks all the time, but then again losing free time with my bf would be a huge price to pay at this stage I think.