Do you force a child to like the new partner

[wildfish]

Curious. If a child does not like - thats too strong - is not closely attached or does not want to form a bond yet ---- do you force the issue or do you let it happen or encourage it?

DS is 4. ExW has just got married (a touch quickly in my view - 3months after meeting) and yesterday DS didn't want to go out to her car to say hello to her new H. Eventually he did, but shouted hello and ran back in. (DS wasn't well either - throwing up).

She stormed off. Today DS didn't seem pleased to see her, and she said (after taking DS aside) "Is it because you were naughty yesterday, you were very bad. You hurt me. etc etc" And then proceeded to tell me how I was blocking it, how I was brainwashing him, how I was .... usual evil one .... She told DS off in the past for not liking a toy her new DP bought for DS.

I find it quite annoying, and I think I would only gently encourage or talk about, but not tell him off about it - its new for him too, just cos she is in love doesn't mean he has to be already.

But seeking a sanity check here - in case I am way off the mark.

youcannotbeserious:

Me too. I was brought up - these are the facts: Accept it or accept it. (At least thats my memory of it )

I don't know why I have done it differently. I tried it the same initially, but found DS to being much more rebellious and me falling into a no no no spiral. The more calm and relaxed I am, the more calm he seems and responds better. (except the one situation). He listens to almost everything else, even taking yucky medicine today, after a little gentle persuasion.

Hi AbbeyA: I have to admit thats my approach too. We are adults that is the child, who has no fault in the situation. She has arranged a mediator. My part of the appointment is soon. As I keep saying to her, forcing it will not be good, but I think she has a timetable for another agenda (new DH is non UK - and it involves visiting his family far away), so for her the urgency is on.

Absolutely, AbbeyA is right: A new partner MUST accept that they are going to come second to the child, especially in those early days.

Totally agree that a new relationship (marriage or not) should not impact on the child. And, IMO, no other adult should be called 'mummy / daddy'....... But again, that's just my opinion based on my situation.

I am pleased that you have got a mediator, perhaps they will be able to make her see that you can't rush these things. She really can't get married in a whirlwind romance and then take DS on an overseas trip to people that he doesn't know! It is hard when you meet a new partner to have to put their DC first but I am so glad that I did because I don't feel that I caused any damage.
I met my present DH when my DS was 6 yrs old and again we took it slowly. They got to know each other and spent time alone without me. Before I agreed to get married I insisted that we went on holiday together so that DH could see my DS warts and all. When we finally got married it worked well because the relationships were secure. You can't force people to like each other, you have to work at it over time.

I expect politeness towards my newish dp from my smaller children (my bigger children love him). The smalls are still very much for daddy though, and I don't want them to feel my dp is in any way trying to take his place. They must always be polite, as I would expect them to be with anybody, but they don't have to like him until they really do like him. It would be ridiculous to try and make them. Everybody hates a person who's trying to hard.

I don't think you're being unreasonable. Poor little lad . The more I have read from you wildfish, the more I can see there is so much more to this situation than was apparent from your first post.

It sounds like he just doesn't know where he is with his mum . If he hasn't wanted to stay overnight before and she's tricked him into it, I'm not surprised he's wary. I would be wanting to know what the issue is with him going to his mum's. But he's so little and maybe he doesn't know or can't verbalise it, although it does sound to me like he's got the measure of her.

It sounds too like she has absolutely no insight into her own behaviour, and the impact she is having on your ds - instead she blames you and gets cross with him .

What a difficult situation for you. When I suggested the lone parents section I meant about encouraging a child to go to see/stay with a parent they are saying they don't want to see. Hopefully you will get some helpful advice there.

I think you are being perfectly reasonable and to be honest, if the sexes were reversed - you would not be receiving some of the more harsher accusations and cod armchair psychology from the likes of jammi et al.

Try the mediation - trying to cram it into 1 week is totally ridiculous and unrealistic.

Try and sort out contact arrangements for a medium term solution, remember that any agreement in mediation is "without prejudice" i.e. not legally binding, but can be written up into an agreement by solicitors at a later date.

If it goes through the court system, be prepared for another whole world of stress.

Point is you are the primary carer and it should stay that way for now.

The ex sounds like a rather nasty manipulative emotionally aggressive ex. She's a bully and you always stand up to bullies.

There is a status quo in terms of parenting schedule and that should only change by mutual agreement and in short measures.

It's NOT on for the ex to say that son has another "daddy" ... I can't of anything less child-focused!

Yerblurt - I disagree with the comment that a woman would get an easier time of it.... Not from a lot of step-mums who've seen their partners driven to the edge of reason just to see their kids....

Otherwise, I agree - especially the bit about the new daddy - that's really not on. (and shouldn't be tolerated by the step dad either, IMHO!)

HAving no experience of seperating, only of a child a similar age, can I ask some questions?

He seems to have a real fear of seperation.

Did his mother go for any length of time without seeing him after you seperated?

Was she his primary caregiver before seperation?

Has she gone long periods without seeing him?

Is he as afraid of say going to nursery/grandparents/friends/relatives as he is of going to his mum's or was he previously?

TA:

[Did his mother go for any length of time without seeing him after you seperated?]
Nope, other than short holidays. But he doesn't seem so bothered when she goes.

[Was she his primary caregiver before seperation?]
Since this stuff started it has been me - age 1 1/2. (She started working at that time)
Before, upto about 9 / 12 months it would have been her as she was more around and I was more at work. But DS has always preferred me doing his stuff and over the period gradually I've was doing more and more (feeding, playing, baths, bed, etc etc) - it wasn't a sudden change in that.

[Has she gone long periods without seeing him?]
No, apart from short breaks.

[Is he as afraid of say going to nursery/grandparents/friends/relatives as he is of going to his mum's or was he previously?]
Nursery, initially good. Then we had the I don't want to stay at Mum's, and he started I don't want to go Nursery either - but after we agreed I was picking him up he would agree (reluctantly). Grandparents less effort to go there and stay there (without me) - again as long as he knew he was coming back same day. (Getting more comfortable again, now).

Now you ask these, I recall that initially he wasn't allowed to be at GP without Parents - ExW rules - until suddenly she decided she needed the space to go out (age about 1 year old). But if I recall correctly he seemed to take to it well, but started to get clingy and wanting to return to me, during the day when the initial phase of at Mums started.

Its amazing the detail you forget, I had to think about all the above. I don't know if its a specific separation anxiety from me, or triggered by parents separation, or the whole thing mashed together has made him seek me as his stable block? I keep saying (I think) that he is growing up, and growing his confidence back - I can see that -, and I believe his reluctance for overnight is closing, but at his pace. The more its pushed I think the more likely it will go backwards.

Was his mother a constant like nursery or I assume his gps? And was his refusal to stay with her treated the same way as him going to nursery/gps?

Cos it sounds as if this seperation anxiety started (quite normal around toddler/pre-school age ime) and was exacerbated by everything else going on. He doesn't sound as if he has the bond with his mother like he has with you (which is why I was wondering if she had disappeared for a period in his life) and views her as you would gps/nursery etc.

Of course with those you aren't expected to go overnight.

WHat strategies are you using to encourage him to go? Do you talk about it beforehand? Warn him several days or a day before, maybe in this case, in advance? Does he get rewards or exciting things planned (going out somewhere or even just favourite food?). Do you talk about her and what she will do with him/what he has done there during the times you have him?

I have a feeling if your ex resorts to legal action you might be forced to send him overnight. Which obviously no one would want.

It's a horrible situation for all involved.

jammi: I've been reflecting on all the posts here. To be honest, for whatever reason there is a big difference in no to staying overnight, and no to not going over, or as today no i want this to eat (he was sick and I wasn't allowing it). Tantrum thrown today, but easy to keep consoling. Going over there, not the same,

It is interesting your view point. I have been thinking about
[waiting til he starts school may lead to more issues than it solves]
The issue I feel now, wasn't really school the target. It is his emotional/social development. He lost the momentum that he should normally have originally at this age (so apparent within his age group). He seems to be recovering that, heading back to where he should be (this people can see). I feel really strongly that, that should be allowed to develop unhindered. I also do believe he is getting closer to feeling more independent (from me). But he is not there yet.

One argument is that going over to mums will help that. The other is it will disrupt it.

Now from my perspective, something is working at the moment (he is regaining a lot of lost ground). Do you mess with his development at this point? Do you risk him falling behind again (especially as school is enough pressure to start with) ? Or do you keep with what is showing results at the moment.

Also from my perspective, her motives are not as simple as I want to help my DS. They are driven by her own timetable about her life. So I ask again, should you risk something that is working for him for HER timetable and new life?

I don't want to take that risk at this time. I am absolutely ok with her continuing to try and make him stay. I am okay with me helping gently. I am totally opposed to pushing him to stay there, when I feel it is a risk at THIS MOMENT in time, to cause him to stutter and stop.

I make clear again, I am not opposed to it, I am not opposed to letting her make her new life, but I want to allow DS to get back on his feet (so speaking) and not allow her decisions once again to override his benefit, so she can score again (so speaking).

If she chooses legal route, that's fine too in the big picture. It will cost a lot, but it should take enough time to allow current course to continue (barring temporary orders), which I am confident by the end result will be a stronger confident little boy. Remember we are arguing on how much to push and when. She wants it all dusted and done by August ready for end of the year (specific timetable regarding new life).

TA: Sorry for not answering. Sick boy, all day and night:

[Was his mother a constant like nursery ]
Constantly in his life, yes.

[Cos it sounds as if this seperation anxiety started q.....c.]
Agreed, though the bond was even before that.

[WHat strategies are you using to encourage him to go? Do you talk about it beforehand? Warn him several days or a day before, maybe in this case, in advance? Does he get rewards or exciting things planned (going out somewhere or even just favourite food?). Do you talk about her and what she will do with him/what he has done there during the times you have him?]

No real strategy. Mine is to allow it to proceed at his speed not hers (or mine). I probe, I ask, I suggest, I say I am okay if he wants to. All gentle. She tries the other stuff you mentioned. He is fine going over, (most of the time), however overnight is no-no by him.

[I have a feeling if your ex resorts to legal action you might be forced to send him overnight. Which obviously no one would want.]

Yes agreed, but maybe it would buy (that could be literally and expensive) enough time. Maybe

I have no advice, but you sound like a good father. I wish you all the best of luck in getting to a place where you and your son are both happy with your lives

Have been following this thread with interest.

After having been on MN for a while and reading lods of different posts I have to say that this post is totally gender-biased.

If the OP were a mother she's get all the support and the male ex would be vilified, called names, her view would be reinforced, not questioned.

It is quite sad really that just because the OP is a man he is being interrogated, his words turned around and his motives questioned.

The ones who have been attacking and picking him apart should be ashamed of their behaviour for if a woman is asking a question re a 'tosser' ex, then those very people come to her aide.

Wildfish, your ex sounds as if she's left the boy behind because it wasn't convenient at the time to have him. The little soul clearly sounds distressed and he will benefit greatly if you can unravel some of the myths your son has built up in his head about mummy. TBH, why does that woman not make the effort herself to help him trust her again and wanting to be with her. She'll have to 'invest' time and care now to change his ways. A court order IMO would destroy all good process. I mean, who likes to be forced to do something? You'd just end up resenting the whole arrangement.

Good luck!