Playing at being mum

[Firstimepregnancy]

Hi I wonder if this is something anyone has dealt with or can offer advice about!

I have a 8 month old baby and 11 year old stepdaughter. Since getting pregnant my stepdaughter has been more interested in playing or being mummy to my child than being a sister. For example, before baby was born she said you can leave the baby with me and I’ll look after her or I’ll be able to tell her off because I’m in charge. She does this with most children under 4 (including neices, nephews etc) if she’s playing with them after will say no no I’ve been looking after them because their mum was busy!

She isnt interested in playing or talking to my daughter and at home ignores her for example she’s stayed for a week in school holidays and we’ve encouraged to come sit and build blocks or stack rings read books but she sits on sofa and ignores my daughter not even looking at her. Which again we’re not going to force if she doesn’t want to play that’s ok as the gap is so large. She doesn’t ask about my daughter in between visits when she’s texting or FaceTiming her dad.

However with other people around she’s trying to play her mum and it’s beginning to upset me. We met with family friends and their young babies and my friend asked me how teethings going before I could even open my mouth my sd is answering for me(not correctly) she doesn’t talk to the other children her own age at the friends gathering will just be next to me but ignoring me almost pretending she’s me it’s really strange. My husband has picked up on it too he also says he doesn’t think she’s interested in getting to know our daughter she just wants to play at being her mum.

She also doesn’t listen when we say ok enough our daughter doesn’t like that now for example she holds my daughters hand and after a while my daughter pulls away yet my sd holds on tighter not letting go till my daughter cries. I tell her to stop but she continues doing it or getting really in her face trying to kiss her on the mouth which we don’t want. We ask everyone to not kiss on the mouth! she has no personal space either and her grandparents ask her to move away if their playing with my daughter so that they can have some time with my child as she’ll get so in my daughters face that she cries and reaches for me.

im not being an evil step mum I’ve really tried to encourage a positive sister bond but I’m now getting to a stage where I don’t want to go to any social situation with her as I can’t talk to my friends as she’s answering for me even when I ignore her response and then answer myself she’ll almost shout over as if I’m not existing. I also am getting tired of having to be so on edge to make sure my daughter isn’t getting upset by her being too much. Myself and my husband have said countless times not in her face she’ll cry but she just doesn’t listen it’s almost as if I want to get in her face so I will.

my husbands now given up and said my daughter will just have to put up with it and when she cries I’ll have to soothe her. Which I think is unfair if my sd doesn’t like something we don’t continue doing it till she cries.

im at a loss of what to do other than not socialising with friends when she’s with us and seeing grandparents separately so they still see the kids but not the kids together which my husband has flatly refused to do.

her mum isn’t amicable there is no positive co parenting relationship and my sd will come back with things like my mum said I can do this and that with/for the baby. So speaking to coparent is off the cards.

any advice?!?

Is she craving attention. When someone's asking you about the baby she will turn the focus on her by answering. Getting in the baby's face also is an effective way of getting you to focus on her, even if it's negative attention. Can your DH or you do some activities just with her alone. Sounds like some good one to one time where she can be the focus of loving, attention by someone who's interested in her could help.

It's poor parenting that her dads given up and letting her upset the baby. He should be trying something like involving her in what he's doing on these occasions instead or finding another way to distract her. I'd pick up and remove baby if she's getting in her face to the point she's distressing her. Boundaries are important as is consistency or she'll never learn. Currently all shes learnt is her dad doesn't enforce rules and its ok to invade someone's personal space. I've had to work on that a lot with my DS and be very specific, he doesn't get that concept easily. Does she interact with same age kids when with her mum or hang out with the adults then to? It's very unusual behaviour.

Sounds like massive insecurity and not quite knowing her own place in the family. Has your DH tried love bombing? Days out, just the two of them, doing stuff she's interested in?

I see so many similarities to my situations, and I hate to tell you but you are in for a rough ride with this one.

Obviously there is a little bit a jealousy towards you and the baby, you obviously get to be with her dad all the time and she may feel left out (if mum is not amicable, negative comments from her to your SD will have a massive impact - I have had this for 11 years)

I do think dad needs to be stronger with her and tell her what's appropriate and what's not because, again I have been down this road, give her an inch and she will take a mile and she will never respect or listen to you unless he backs you up. You need to nip this in the bud sooner rather than later. My DH didn't and she got aware with absolute murder, wouldn't speak to me when he wasn't there, did exactly what she wanted, she is still a spoilt little brat at 20yr old.

Maybe you could give her a specific task she can do with your daughter. Something to make her feel like she is in control of that and that's her job, like teaching her 1, 2, 3 and this may initiate the playing together thing using toys and books, set her a time which is her and her sisters time - and stick to it. Or asking her to give her afternoon snack or something.

I wish you luck!

Who does your daughter have to look out for her?
You.
And only you, apparently, as her dad has admitted he can't be arsed.
So no more mincing around. Physically remove your child from situations before she gets distressed.
No more asking nicely. SD is not the only child who matters. If she gets upset at being spoken to firmly or not being allowed to carry on as she likes, her father will just have to soothe her, won't he?
I'd also not be told I can't take my own child to see her own grandparents so he can fuck off with that noise as well.

When she's at your house, what age appropriate activities are you offering her? Playing with a baby is boring quite frankly. Sounds to me reading between the lines that all attention has switched to the baby and she doesn't know where she fits in. Babies are really portable so it's quite easy to get on with doing things that the older child is suited to.

I agree with this poster. Your child is a baby and therfore far more vulnerable than your SD. Ultimately you have to protect your baby.

This isn't to say that you ignore SD. It seems to me like she's trying assert her place in the family. I think she needs firm boundaries so she can understand her role as big sister.

My aunt's (my mum's brother's wife's) sister's daughter was exactly like this with DS and was around the same age, it used to drive me potty, no you can't push the baby off into a crowd at the seafront, no the baby is breastfed you can't feed him, no he doesn't eat wotsits, answering questions other family members had about his sleep etc, playing peekaboo but getting so in his face he'd cry and the keep doing it even when adults tell her to stop, and we only saw her 6-8 times a year, albeit sometimes for whole weekends. She was as a teenager diagnosed with ASD though so I think she wasn't good at taking adults' reactions and got a bit fixated on the baby and being "mummy".
Not saying this is the situation with your step daughter, just I know how it feels to be on the receiving end!

Her dad spends a lot of one on one time with her I’ve made sure that he will do an activity once a day that is for him and my stepdaughter whether that’s cinema or swimming or just going to the park whilst she’s here! He does do this with her so she’s getting that one on one attention with him. She has however each time she spends time with her dad alone comes back and says will the baby be coming next time to which I’ve said no no it’s your time with your dad which I think also upsets him. We also have her two weeks in the holidays where he does a day trip with her most days doing activities she enjoys so it’s a lot of one on one time for them without me or baby around. We’ve tried her at dance clubs, gymnastics clubs when she’s here which she’s said she’s interested in and wanted to do to get her to socialise with kids her age but she goes twice then cries to her mum about it and my husband gets told he’s a bad dad for trying to entertain her with different hobbies.

she did say to me that she has only one friend at school and spends a lot of time with adults at her mums house and isn’t bothered about talking to children her own age. Which again is quite concerning.

We recently went to a family party with friends with kids her age who were trying to involve her she stared blankly ahead to avoid them and then rudely said go away I’m not playing, because she was listening in to my conversation with a friend. to be honest we only went to try and socialise her a bit and entertain her!

it seems to be especially though when grandparents give the baby one on one time so yes perhaps you’re right she’s wanting the attention on her from her grandparents?! Do I then suggest seeing grandparents with the kids seperately Ie one weekend we go the three of us next weeekend he takes my sd so she gets that one on one time?

she’s started as well giving my husband advice on how to parent our child this weekend which really concerned me.

thank you though I’ve been really stuck with wanting to protect my daughter but not be a bad step mum but Tbf it’s getting to be a lot!

She's 11, I think maybe she just needs putting back in her place. If she's talking over you when you are trying to speak to your friends say "Do you mind dsd, that's actually quite rude to talk over me. I know you are a caring big sister but if you can't join in this grown up conversation nicely then you will have to go off and play". When she is getting in your dd's space and ignoring your requests give a consequence " Dsd, I've asked you nicely to stop that, the baby doesn't like it, if you carry on then you will lose your phone for the rest of the day....or some other consequence".

At 11 she’ll be very invested in being grown up whilst not actually being grown up yet so of course she doesn’t play with babies! She does look after them though because she’s so mature etc. she’s trying to carve out a higher status role in your family and project it when you have visitors. Honestly it’s very understandable and infinitely preferable to her loathing or resenting her baby sister (as my full blood brother did). You ARE a grownup and you didn’t consult her before presenting her with a sibling (nor should you have done) so it’s not a big ask for you to stifle your prickly reaction to her acting like she’s the mum. I mean nobody is going to think “How strange that Firsttime doesn’t seem to know what’s going on with her own baby and little Ruby is the expert!”

For me the only thing I’d have to intervene in is when she won’t give DD2 space or let her go when she clearly wants it. Your husband shouldn’t have given up on that. I’d intervene every time with something like “Thanks Ruby, but DD2 has had enough now, can you see how she’s pulling away and grouching?” - and if she doesn’t stop then swiftly remove DD2 and say “That’s not nice.” to DSD.

The grandparent thing is definitely insecurity and jealousy. Who can compete with a baby for cuteness? I think time with them on her own is a great idea of yours to try.

This is really common with older stepdaughters but I hear it's not much different with bio daughters either- they like the idea of being a "mini-mum" but are actually way too young for any real responsibility.

We have the same gap as you (DD 4, SD 14) and it's eerily similar. She has a DB 5 at her Mum's and says the same as you, "I look after DB and all his friends when their Mums are busy," when actually she's just been playing with them whilst their Mums are in the same room.

Re DD at the start she was really controlling and overbearing, not letting her play at the park because she'd keep picking her up and lifting her onto things the moment there was any sign of difficulty, telling her off for "making a mess" e.g. getting toys out of the box they were in or taking apart a jigsaw to put back together or saying "That was really naughty!" for really normal and appropriate behaviours like dropping food on the floor at mealtimes. But then if we did ask her to watch her for a minute she'd do really daft things like invent a game about monsters wanting to eat your eyeballs leaving her terrified and crying under the table!

You just have to be really firm and consistent about it I think. We had to keep on repeating ourselves to SD and intervening when she was trying to be Mum to DD and it was stressful, but now they have a more normal sibling relationship and mostly just squabble over silly stuff.

In no particular order:

It's great that she is getting plenty of 1:1 time with your DH. This is the purpose of the contact time. Also good to get her out of the house. Do they also hang out just the two of them at home? She may just want to watch a movie with him or cook together.

I would be out/busy more with baby if possible.

8mo babies are pretty boring generally unless you're their parent.. I wouldn't expect an 11yo to show much interest. But I wouldn't be a fan of the way she likes to boss smaller children around. And I wouldn't tolerate sitting in on adult conversations.

11 is a tricky age - hormone rushes, big school, and finding your place in the world. But you're allowed to set your own boundaries and expectations.

I really disagree with a lot of the replies you are getting and I’m really sorry to be blunt but you’re sounding jealous of a 11 year old. Read back to what you have written, every time you mention the baby it’s ‘my daughter’ ‘my child’ and not this poor girls ‘sister’.

Your step daughter is entitled to a relationship with her Sister. Why do boundaries need to be enforced? I think her behaviour seems very typical of older girls with younger baby relatives, I’ve noticed similar behaviours with my own daughter and at the same age with her older cousins. It was a phase, they have grown out of it as DD became older.

Read back to what you have written, every time you mention the baby it’s ‘my daughter’ ‘my child’ and not this poor girls ‘sister'

Why don't you read it back and replace "my daughter" and "my child" with "my stepdaughters sister"? Then consider how utterly ridiculous that would be.
The OPs relationship with her step daughters sister is the single most important one in that babys life, like it or not.
The OPs stepdaughters sister is not a plaything and deserves for boundaries to be enforced on her behalf. Her sister's step mother is going to have to be the one to do it for her as she is still a baby.
What sort of a mother allows a baby to be repeatedly upset by a sibling and just shrugs and waits for the older child to "grow out of it"?
I'm sure they'd have grown out of it alot faster if boundaries were in place.

it would not sound ridiculous. Perhaps if OP wrote her post in a way such as ‘how can I help my step daughter in her behaviour with new sister’ she might get some practical advice?

There are lots of posts like this with the step mum being threatened by the older step daughter, it’s very sad. My daughter is fine, and so are my friends children with older siblings/ relatives without the need for boundaries or we didn’t need to wait for the older children to grow out of a phase. That’s because they where dealt with compassion.

I imagine this is a common (but annoying) way for children to cope with a new sibling as they try to figure out where their new role is in the family, and feel left out of the new parent-child pairing. They aren’t the baby/child anymore (or at least they feel that they aren’t, or that they are no longer in a special unique role)…so maybe they are trying to find a place on the other side of the new parent-child dynamic that involves the new child?

How can you give her some “older sister” duties that will help her see she does have a unique role, and an important one? Can you talk up “older sister” and find safe, non annoying things for her to do that will make her feel included? Setting out supplies for diaper change or bath or feeding whatnot. Give her something, so that when you then take over you can truthfully point out that she DID help. And maybe let her in a bit on the adult conversation at times, so she will learn to be patient and that her turn will come. “Yes the baby is teething….(finish making adult comments)…(11 yo), what else did you notice about her tooth?” Your adult friends are zero danger of thinking your’e really displaced by an 11 year old, and might find you kind and sensitive to help her feel included a bit. And then maybe her intruding/assuming behaviour would lessen. It just sounds like if she finds some way to feel included and important and it might get better.

I imagine this is a problem for non step families, too.

In Response to fairy rose 89:

I’d just like to say that I’m very much not threatened or jealous of my step daughter, there is nothing to be jealous of she is a child. I feel sad for her that she has to split her time across two homes and that she is predominately an only child at her mothers home. I wouldn’t personally want that for my or any child if can be helped.

Because of this since becoming pregnant, I’ve very much involved her and suggested and encouraged positive ways for her to become a loving, caring sister. I’m constantly aware of upsetting her and my husband at the detriment of sometimes my stepdaughters sister (as you’d like me to refer to my daughter) by letting her show her ‘care’ by repeatadly making my stepdaughters sister cry by being to in her face, being to rough with her or not letting go of a cuddle despite her sister (my daughter) wriggling to get free.

if I didn’t make the original post clear enough I’m asking for advice in what Steps I should take next to ensure she’s included but also so that my daughter (her sister) is comfortable and not crying. We are trying to move her from a pretending to be mummy to being a caring sister which we think will be better for their relationship in the future too.

Perhaps we’re wrong and I should just let her continue and hope she grows out of it and her sister (my daughter) continue to cry till when she’s older she says mummy I don’t want to be around my sister?! Worse case scenario being that my stepdaughter doesn’t grow out of it?! Surely that is the worst thing to do and far more sad than trying to fix the situation now?

im sure your children are fine and that is great news however not all children are the same and I’m asking for advice from a forum/ from other step mums who have been in a similar situation to me. I’m not asking to be bashed.

11 is when they start to think they’re older than they are and it’s fucking annoying.

answering for you, outrightly tell her is rude and not to do, I would then say this conversation isn’t for you, please go an play.

she cannot continue to make your daughter cry. If you need to raise your voice do it, Emma, let Grace go now! Failure to do so, bed earlier. The consequence needs to be worse than the action.

if she thinks or wants to act like an adult start treating her a bit more of an adult. Involve her in adult tasks, cooking, washing up, tidying up. Give her some “grown up” jobs at least for a little she’ll enjoy it then she’ll likely realise being an adult is shite and give up on it

@Firstimepregnancy You absolutely don’t need to confirm you’re not jealous - your posts never came across that way in the slightest.

Great post @EG94 The safety and wellbeing of both children is important.

Didn’t intend to bash you, sometimes a different perspective and opinion is helpful. perhaps jealous is the wrong word that I used. Just had a hunch so looked at your previous posts, perhaps if your Husbands (female) relatives are this much of an issue for your perhaps you need to ask for him to step up and help you with this?

She's not playing at being mum she's playing at being YOU because in her eyes you have her father's attention. whatever one on one time she is getting with her dad it obviously isn't enough and your husband and her mother need to grow up and talk to each other to figure out what their child needs to feel secure in her own self and her own place in the family.

Nailed it!!!! What's she said^^^!!!!!

The fact a 11 year old is repeatedly hurting the baby is very concerning to me. I can imagine a younger child doing this, but at the age of 11 wouldn't most kids have the empathy to not do this??

Does this ring alarm bells fot anyone else?

Does she show empathy for children in other situations?