Advice Please - DSS always getting involved in our disagreements!

[doglover92]

Hi all,
Looking for some advice from fellow stepparents here - not to be told I shouldn’t have married a man with children and that I just have to put up with it etc!
For background, my DSS is 8, and has had a bit of a challenging last couple of years. There has been some upheaval on his mums side and we have had a baby (we did not know about the upheaval until after I was pregnant - before I get any abuse for that!) which has resulted in him being very clingy (I can’t think of a better word) with his dad. I’ve been in his life since he was 2 - he can’t remember life before me and in fact once asked me if I was at his birth, so this isn’t a ‘new partner’ situation. We had a great relationship, and still do in some ways but I would say this has evolved now where we spend less time together as he would prefer to be with his dad (rightly so) and I look after the baby to accommodate this more. I often stay at my mums on the nights he’s with us to give them time, and actively encourage them to have time together when he is here.

Anyway, an issue has consistently arisen now, where me and DH will be disagreeing on something and DSS feels the need to get involved and ‘back him up’. These begin as no more than disagreements over something small like the washing up, but DSS really ramps it up by shouting at me that I’m wrong and his dad is right (which is quite often untrue😂) and tends to turn the argument from a ‘3’ to a ‘9’ fairly quickly as I look to DH to tell him it’s totally unacceptable to get involved! He does this inconsistently I would say. I have on occasion ‘bitten back’ and sharply told DSS to stop getting involved (I am very rarely sharp with him as I try to leave it to DH) which has then shocked him, he’s cried and DH has then gone ‘oh it’s ok it doesn’t matter!!!!’ as if I am the bad guy.
I know that I should not let a child wind me up, but I also feel like as a child I would NEVER have felt the need to get involved in an adult disagreement. I’ve tried walking away as to not show my frustration, but then I get told I am ‘storming off’.
I am just trying to find a way to nip this in the bud because it is causing a massive rift in my relationship with DSS and DH.

I’ve tried to suggest to DH he needs to take more responsibility for this - eg showing me more respect in front of DSS (even exaggerating being nice to me to make this clear), and not ‘rewarding’ DSS when he fights his corner, but he has said I need to tell DSS off for getting involved myself more to gain respect. However, I feel this is counterproductive as his dad then comforts him when he’s upset about it which is then giving him what he wants which is his dads approval!

Apologies for the long winded post, hope this makes sense and any advice would be much appreciated!

I don't think it's at all helpful for you to go stay at your mum's when dss is here. You and dh are creating a "them and us" situation and confusing the boy about his place in the family. Dh and dss can spend time together with you and the baby in the same building.

This type of comment is so unfair, DSS is only 8. He didn’t ask for OP to go to her mums yet you are blaming him for being a brat as a result?

OP was doing what she thought was right for DSS/family, it’s not fair to blame her for getting it wrong (as we all do) or DSS for reacting.

Would you class OP’s joint child for getting dad to themselves as ‘special treatment’.

With children all behaviour is communication as they aren’t able to regulate thoughts and emotions in the way adults can.

Adults don’t always get it right, but when a DC shows undesirable behaviour it’s our (parents mainly tbf) responsibility to explore WHY it might be happening and make alterations so it stops.

The OP doesn’t seem to resent her DSS, there’s no need for blame and name calling.

You’ve created this, you’ve made him into an entitled spoilt brat who now thinks he’s in charge

He's a little boy who is confused about his place in the family. Sounds like he's been through a lot. He's not an entitled spoilt brat who thinks he's in charge.

It's possible to give out advice without hurling insults towards a child.

I think long stocking has nailed it anyway.

He’s confused because they’ve created the environment that’s confused him. It’s resulted in him becoming above his station ( child) and thinking he has a place in conversations between adults .

so he is behaving like an entitled brat, I never said it was his fault though!

The stepson isn’t a spoiled entitled brat as you it it. He’s an 8 year old child who has had many significant upheavals in his life.
His parents split up, his dad brings a newcomer into his life at the age of 2. His mother moved house 50 miles away, away from friends and family, this meant he moved schools. Had to start all over in a new one. A half sibling comes along, his dads second child.
And now there’s talk of another house and school move in the offing. This one sounds positive but it’s still big upheaval for an eight year old.

OP I wouldn’t tell him off, that’s his dads job. Don’t let yourself be set up as the bad cop. These arguments are, to an adult quite petty, probably even good natured banter but an 8 year old doesn’t have the maturity to see that, he just sees his dad being attacked and defends him. You have tried your best to ensure he has time with his dad so don’t feel bad about that.

Is it not his dad rather than the OP who has created the situation??

Would it be an option to occasionally go to your mum's all four of you? Especially if DSS is as close to her as you say. It might break up the dynamic a bit. You could frame it as her missing him which would probably also do a world of good.

I think it’s both. She has removed herself and he’s allowed it.

In this case laugh it off
If you were not shouting then
Ha ha dss, no need to shout!
Call out the shouting.

Seems like your sensitivity here.
Why did it wind you up?
If it was a non argument then no harm for dss to express his view but teach him to do so calmly and then all laugh about it

What I am concerned about is you are fighting in front of him often enough for this to be an issue. And you have acknowledged snapping at him. I am sorry but this is not acceptable.

Adults should be able to have a calm difference of opinion without it escalating, children, especially those who I am reading between the lines haven't had a secure childhood can be severely impacted. They usually end up in therapy as adults trying to unpick the impact.

Stop arguing if you both can not communicate difference of opinions appropriately then sincerely try supports but don't expose children to this.

And before there are the "everyone argues" . .most adults restrict it to out of ears of children and don't escalate - it is emotional abuse.

@Marblessolveeverything sorry I’m just reading through everything so not had chance to reply to others yet, but to be accused of emotional abuse for bickering with my husband about who was going to do the bottles when we got home is absolutely nonsensical!

@doglover92 I disagree children need adults who can communicate appropriate ly. Snapping, arguing, and the new " bickering" is not a healthy environment to raise children.

Read into the impact on children it lasts a lifetime. It does indeed cause emotional abuse, there are significant studies into the impacts available for review.

@Marblessolveeverything I'm a teacher with a masters in children’s mental health. I am perfectly capable in decision making when it comes to my decorum around my DSS. Children needs adults who can resolve conflict appropriately, which we do calmly and quickly but the issue arises because DSS gets involves and begins shouting at me, which, yes I would rather didn’t happen. Absolutely vile to come on a forum and accuse someone of emotional abuse when they’re asking for helpful advice.

Well as a professional who for many years worked with the adults at the end of situations (PhD qualified ) like you describe, I suggest we agree to disagree.

There is an eight year old child screaming out for this to stop, that is the key and only important point. Surely as a teacher you would understand that this behaviour is a clear indication of an yet need for clam environment?

I am stepping away because you obviously don't want to hear what dss future may be.

@Marblessolveeverything you're correct, I don’t want to hear further. I agree that to avoid him interjecting me and DH for the moment need to make sure we don’t have disagreements about household chores in front of him to take away any source of conflict, but not because we are emotionally abusive parents.

Mumsnet is wild!

Emotional abuse?!

@doglover92 I actually think it sounds like you're doing your best to meet the needs of everyone. I don't see your night away as a bad thing. The amount of people who come on here and complain that their child never gets one to one time because with the non-resident parent is high. Dsd is an adult now but I always made sure she had time for just her and dh. She appreciates and acknowledges this.
In my home, I wouldn't accept any child involving themselves in a perfectly normal, mild disagreement between adults. If dh can't/won't step in, I would gently remind dss each time to please not interfere. Then I would ignore the behaviour and continue my conversation. I would do this with my own dc, dsd, or even any visiting child.
I would also have strong words with dh about presenting a united front.

Your husband should be putting his foot down when this happens and making it clear to DSS that is isn’t ok for him to speak to you like that and that this conversation is for the grown ups.

Sounds like you're a really loving supportive SM but as you say, he's had upheaval and uncertainty. Any further uncertainty caused by him overhearing and sensing disagreement will ramp the anxiety up.

You're his safe space so, "me and DH will be disagreeing on something and DSS feels the need to get involved and ‘back him up" will shake his sense of security and place him effectively in the middle, because he's physically there. You can explain that sometimes adults do disagree and that's OK, it doesn't mean you're splitting up or there will be any other change.
He needs to be in a environment free from raised voices etc and be provided with calm, routine consistency and certainty. Side issue, it's so considerate that you give 1:1 time so stay with your Mum but could this worry SC, in that he thinks you're not there and wants to be with you too as he's never known life without you and probably relies on you as a pillar of his family.

I think you need to compromise for a while. He can still have Dad’s time while you’re there. Settle the baby then have a long bath/do your hobby/watch tv elsewhere while they do what they want for a couple of hours. At his age, he’ll be in bed by about 10.30, surely. You’ll be there to say goodnight and good morning and he won’t feel that you’re leaving the house because he is there. I know you are doing that for what you feel is the right reason but I’m pretty sure that’s the message a little boy is getting. You can all go to your mums for a visit together on Sunday/all go out for lunch together before you take him back to his mum.

Also, arguing in front of the kids, even low level but consistently, isn’t great anyway, whether the kids are your own or not.

No real advice OP but it sounds like you're doing everything you can to help your DS feel important in his dads life, maybe it's gone a little too far and he's feeling a division between you and your baby vs him and his dad.

Stop worrying about prioritising him and concentrate on navigating as a family so that as your new baby grows he doesn't see them as competing for dad's time.

I think you've been trying to do the right thing but somethings obviously switched for dss.

So I'd reform one family unit. All time spent together unless Dh and dss go to the cinema etc. Dh takes a role with the baby too during this time.

Tell Dh that he is dss parent and he needs to address this rudeness from dss each and every time. Tell him he's on the slippery slope to being a Disney dad where he wants you to parents and discipline his child. Tell him you're here to support dss, and if he's not there then of course you'll do this. But dss needs his dad to show respect to you in this way.

Good luck

I hate the way the stepmother hating element pour into these threads and go on and on, totally derailing what could be a useful space for an OP. It’s tiresome. And the OP is right, it’s not AIBU.