How to build DCs relationship with SM?!

[HarraKiri]

This might be a long one but I don’t want to drip feed! I have three kids with ExH - 4, 8&9.
He has a 2yr old with his new partner. He sees our kids EOW.

We all get on well. I have their DD (we will call her DSD for ease, even though she isn’t my DSD!) two nights a month also, to give ExH and SM a break, and so that the kids are pretty much together every weekend, and can develop a strong sibling bond.

SM never really bonded with my eldest two, and I’d probably go as far as to say they actively dislike her. I try not to probe or ask questions, but generally the reasons they don’t like going to their house EOW are
⁃ she is very strict on the eldest two. They have to finish everything on their plate even if they don’t like it.
⁃ They are not allowed upstairs to their bedroom/the bathroom without asking
⁃ They can’t play with small or messy toys at their house (Polly pockets/Lego/beads and bracelet making/slime etc etc). Basically they have to sit down quietly on screens, and any excitement/noise seems to result in them getting told off.

My youngest child (DD4) is not treated like this at all. She adores her SM and the feeling is mutual I think. ExH and SM frequently ask to have youngest more often - they were going to legoland and wanted to bring her but not the eldest two, they want to bring her when they have any family trips out but not the eldest two etc. I generally make an excuse and say we have existing stuff planned, because generally it’s things I know my older two would also love, and I don’t want them to know their little sister is being invited to these things and they aren’t.

My eldest two no longer want to stay overnight and are getting increasingly upset about it. I’m almost positive that if I said I would pick them up in the evenings EOW so they would sleep at mine instead, ExH and SM would be fine with this and probably prefer it.

But I just don’t know if it’s the right thing to do. Obviously the best thing to do would be to build the bond between the eldest two and SM, and I tried encouraging this (offering to keep my youngest and DSD for the day/overnight so they could have time with just the bigger two, and do activities more focused on them, and this happened once and hasn’t been repeated).

I just don’t know what is the right thing to do here. I feel everyone (my eldest two, plus ExH and SM) would be totally fine to stop the EOW overnights.

But then I think if my DMum or a family member was constantly just wanting DD4 for nice days out and not including the elder two, I would refuse this dynamic completely because it feels so unfair on the elder two.

Does anyone have any thoughts/advice on how best to move forward?!

I’d be very unhappy with this. Your elder 2 are still themselves very young and deserve better than being sidelined by their father.

He moved on quickly, to have a 2 year old with his partner when your youngest is only 4. Your older children will have been impacted more by this.

Is the rule about not playing with small toys e.g. slime making kits because of the toddler at the house?

Are the eldest two boys?

The dynamic is completely off.
They (sm more) prefers the younger child so gets her more
They want child free time and give their child to you. So your children get less of you.

Do you think their child is easier when your joint is around. And then the oldest ones ruin the 'peace' that's been created.

Prob completely wrong but it's bugging me

Are you scared of your ex and/or his girlfriend? It sounds like you’re going unusually far out of your way to make his life as easy and convenient as possible, and to accommodate rather than challenge his bad behaviour, to the detriment of your own kids.

I hate to read this twice - their DF is an absolute arsehole.

He is rejecting his oldest children, so he and his new partner can have the 2 youngest girls to play with.and play happy families. He should stamp down on this immediately - you do not get to reject individual children.

How long before he/she suggests to your youngest that she lives 50/50 with them and then it will be FT. He has by virtue of his actions split your family once and is now splitting them again.

TBH - they both sound vile. Him for enabling her behaviour and her for putting in rules like not going up stairs to the bathroom without permission. I get the small toys with a toddler around but then let them play in their rooms with what they want but controlling bathroom access is beyond controlling to young children - do they actually have a room in his house

So sd for your eldest 2 DCS - they need their heads shaking but one gets the impression they do not give a shit.

100% agree it's ExH that is the issue here really.

But it was made worse in that recently SM
took their daughter to go visit her family, so my children had a weekend just with their dad. And zero rules. McDonalds ordered for breakfast, pot noodles for lunch, KFC for dinner. They didn't have to go to their swimming lesson because they didn't want to. Didn't have to brush their teeth, stayed up late.

They came back home full of what a great weekend it was, and that SM must be the bad guy because daddy is so lovely and fun when she's not around.

And recently ExH paid eldest £20 to do the washing up. Then SM walked in and said "wtf, no, you're not paying her £20 to wash up, she's 9, that's insane" and took it off DD. But in DD's eyes, it's SM who is the bad guy, not her dad (who was being a useless Disney dad).

I tried to explain to the kids that SM isn't being mean by enforcing rules in the house, and that all houses need rules etc. But it's different, in that I can have rules in our house, but then still spend hours cuddling my kids and they know how much I love them. Whereas SM doesn't have that relationship with them, so she's making all the rules and being the bad guy 24/7, which makes it near impossible for the kids to ever like her.

The eldest two (both girls) resemble me. The youngest looks just like her dad/little sister. The elder two also have my personality (a bit reserved/introverted) whereas the youngest is a gregarious little ball of love and affection. So it's very easy to develop a relationship with the youngest, and a tough slog to get the older two to warm to you! All these things contribute to them getting more and more excluded from this new little family unit for ExH, SM, their daughter and our youngest, but I really don't know what I can do it change it, or to minimise the impact of all this on my older two.

Imo offer to have the younger 2 whilst they have the older 2 some times.. If sm isn't prepared to make the effort you stop her free child care..she is quite a cf imo. Put your dc ahead of the relationship between the dc...

Sorry but you need to put on your big girl pants and talk to your ex and basically lay down the law (metaphorically speaking).

1st He has 4 children not 2 he doesn't get to only ask for extra time with 1 it's all or nothing.

2nd, he needs to speak to his wife about her unreasonable demands on your eldest 2 they should never have to ask to use the toilet in their own home that is abusive.

3rd, they must be allowed to play and make a reasonable amount of noise and mess (they should tidy-up after themselves). Refusing to ever let them do so is also abusive.

Basically this man is actively allowing his wife to abuse your eldest two children (probably because his wife doesn't like the fact that they look like you) for an easy life. This needs to stop or you need to stop all contact, and you definitely need to stop having dsd at yours even if things change at his house, you're being a doormat.

As a dc my sm was awful to me. Wasn't allowed drink or a plate... As an adult obviously I can see my df allowed this to happen. The irony was that flat was my home as a baby and those plates were wedding gifts for df and dm... Been nc with df for over 20 years
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It sounds as though he is a useless, lazy man who overly relies on his partner to do the actual parenting, which may well be resulting in her being overly strict.

This is weird. Why would you be so helpful to a woman that was that horrible to your children?

So she’s the only one actually parenting, and there’s two pairs of kids with very different needs and expectations. The obvious thing would be for her and your ex to divide and conquer (so one adult takes the older two to the cinema or to do their crafts and the other takes the younger two to the park or soft play) but that essentially means you’re expecting SM to be a single parent to not only her own kid but another, or two older and unrelated kids whilst she misses out on seeing her own. Of course she’s not keen.

If everyone would be happier reducing hours I’d do it.

I’m sorry but I stopped reading at the part where you say you look after your ex husbands new kid for him and his partner to ‘give him them a break’

you are BATSHIT OP.

where is your self respect ? Your dignity? Your priorities?

She's not actively horrible to them, I don't think. @SemperIdem is right in that I think ExH is useless and lazy, hence she is the one setting all the boundaries and doing all the parenting.

And I think she tolerates my older two, and cares for their needs physically, but doesn't feel any real affection towards them (which tbh I don't think is uncommon in step parenting slightly older kids, and I don't expect her to love them like she does her own child). But the youngest was only a tiny baby when SM came on the scene, and she fell pregnant almost immediately, so she got to "parent" youngest since she was a baby, and she's always had a real soft spot for her.

I also think that because her own child is only small, her expectations of older kids are a bit unrealistic. Like, my kids had some Christmas presents to open at their dads house, and their toddler sister has already opened all her own presents, and wanted to do all the opening of my eldest's presents. And ExH and SM told my eldest two that they should let their little sister open all the presents for them, because they are big and she is little.

And obviously this seems unreasonable - they are 8 and 9 ffs, of course they want to open their own presents, and aren't responsible if their little sister is going to tantrum. But in ExH's/SM's eyes, they are "big" kids. And should be ok with making allowances for their little sister. So her actions towards my elder two aren't malicious, just a bit...misplaced.

Wow you are so good! It’s so refreshing to see a mum who wants to improve the relationship with a sm.
Your ex is obviously the main issue, which it seems you realise. It’s so good you supported that sm wasn’t wrong in the above scenario, but it doesn’t sound like their df is doing the same, and really there’s only so much you can (and should) do. Could you and sm maybe do something with them together?
I wouldn’t let them make a difference with your children. If that means seeing them all less, then that’s the choice they are making. Protect your own children first and foremost.

I do hear this repeatedly from pretty much every friend and family member I have.

But my logic was

1. knowing how useless ExH is, their relationship will inevitably fail. It's important that SM & I have a good relationship, so that we can continue to build the siblings relationship even without him.
2. I guess I thought if I was kind to her DD, it would help her be kind to mine?
3. I was determined not to be seen as a "bitter baby mama" who wanted to make like difficult for ExH and his new partner.
4. I guess mostly when my kids grow up, I want them to see how much I tried. I doubt they will have much of a relationship with their dad when they are old enough to make their own minds up, and I doubt they will think highly of him. I wanted them to remember how much I tried to help and facilitate their relationship as much as I could.
5. ExH is USELESS. Before SM came on the scene, he barely saw our kids and was drunk most the time. I appreciate the effect she has on him, and that he's a more present father because of her. I guess I wanted to show I was grateful to her.
6. I genuinely do have a lot of affection and love for DSD. We have a lovely relationship. It's nice that my kids can show her "our" home and their bedrooms here, and their toys. And that she's here when they have friends over for play dates etc, so they all have a proper sibling bond and she's not just some distant sister they see every other weekend only.

How do you feel about meeting up with your ex and his DP adults only and asking them to do some family therapy.

Explaining that whilst her house rules are unreasonable they are unrealistic and making the older girls feel very unwanted and hurt and that's bad for all the DC?

Things cannot get much worse for your DC tbh.

Still no. You are WAY too involved in his new life.

step back. Focus on you and your kids.

Being so understanding of her motivations towards your older kids will lead them to conclude that you think it’s understandable to prefer their sister over them. If you think this is the way to make them grow up with a strong sibling dynamic and in admiration of your handling of it all I think you are very sorely misguided. Your ex is a shit father with a drink problem and his girlfriend is the sort of woman who gets together with a man who has a tiny baby and then openly ousts his two older (but still very young) children - spending so much time appeasing them and doing them favours is absolute madness and is clearly not having the effect you hope it will anyway. Start prioritising your own children and let them see you doing it.

Your attitude is refreshing. It sounds like SM and Disney Dad just want an easy life and time with just the 2 and 4 year olds is easier because they're closer in age and probably play together a bit. Older kids like doing different things, might be a bit bolshy from time to time (especially with SM behaving as she does).

Children know when they're not wanted somewhere and that feeling is corrosive to their self-esteem and relationship with the parent they perceive doesn't want them around. Your ex is doing this all wrong and allowing SM to create an environment in which your older two children don't feel welcome or comfortable.

There's unlikely to be an easy fix because anything you say to ex and SM will probably get a defensive response. However, if nothing changes then soon enough the outcome of your older two not sleeping over there will occur naturally, as they will soon be old enough to decide for themselves where they want to be.

I'd probably try speaking alone to your ex first and explaining that the older kids perceive that they are treated differently to the younger ones, giving examples, and that you're concerned that over time this will make them not want to go there. You want to support all 4 children feeling equally comfortable in both homes (even SM's one). And see what he says. If he doesn't want to hear it, then he's made his bed and can look forward to many years of "easy life" once your older children no longer want to spend time in his house.

Although I think you sound like in a lot of ways you've got your head screwed on and I admire what you're trying to do, I also think you sound like the ultimate people pleaser in your posts. I recognise it because I'm guilty of it too, I know that I tend to put up with behaviour that makes me unhappy from family (eg MIL) to keep everyone happy and please people.

However, the result of doing this is you end up modelling to your DDs that as a mum, your role is to facilitate everyone else having a nice time, while you end up running on empty... it's that old phrase 'you can't pour from an empty cup.'

I do think you need to lay more of the responsibility at your ex H's door to make the new family dynamic work. I'm not saying totally abdicate responsibility for it, but explain to him your concerns about their relationship with his new partner, and then step back. It's up to them to figure out how things should be when they have the DCs. It's your role to ensure the spaces you have control over are managed in the way you see fit.

Ok so the result of this might be that your DDs slowly realise that their Dad is 'useless' but that would then be his fault and you wouldn't feel like all your people pleasing had ultimately failed, and therefore you had failed. You have huge and unending value to your children as their mother, not as this strange family saint, balancing everyone's emotions at the expense of your own.