Dealing with one older child bullying the younger one

[Tosca23]

I'm noticing my boyfriend's 13 year old bullies the 6 year old. My boyfriend has been going through a toxic divorce for a number of years and I suspect his ex may be narcissistic. The kids see my partner EOW when they stay over.

2 of my boyfriends 3 kids are nice kids and 1 is very hard to like - snappy, quiet, withdrawn, and verging on malevolent to her younger sibling. The 13 year old seems to be getting off on deliberately upsetting the 6 year old and it very much feels like bullying to me. She deliberately says horrible things to make him cry, tries to manipulate hurtful situations etc. It's been an ongoing issue since I've known his kids. She is intermittently nice to him then switches...

I was going to suggest my boyfriend call a spade a spade and have an up front conversation with the 13 year old about what is going on.

As I only see them every other weekend and holidays there are limits as to what I can do, but I would like to try to suggest some things to help my partner deal with the situation. Has anyone successfully dealt with these issues? I was going to suggest counselling for the 13 year old, frank discussions by my partner with her re what she is doing and the impact on her younger sibling and that it isn't healthy. I also think he needs to follow through with some consequences like taking her phone off her if she behaves in this way as currently all he does is tell both of them off and she pays no notice and the pattern starts again. I am also thinking re putting some rules up on the wall of my house for when the kids are over.

Has anyone successfully helped their partner deal with this kind of thing?

What does your partner currently do when the older sibling is bullying the younger one?

He tells them both off and to stop it. That's it.

He has also tried giving this badly behaved teenager more positive attention, as originally I thought her not getting enough positive attention may be at the root of the problem (she is a middle child), but that hasn't fixed things. I think even my partner finds her behaviour hard to put up with.

DSC was like this, but it was our DC on the other end of it.

Tbh I got DC out of the way and they weren’t allowed to be alone around DSC. Their mother is also a narcissist, and the traits have been passed on. Thankfully they don’t come any more after we put our foot down over their behaviour. They’d rather not come, than agree to behave.

No real advice, but sympathies.

@yogasaurus does your partner still see his children?

Yes, alone. That’s what DSC wanted all along, works out best for everyone.

Do you live with your boyfriend, @Tosca23 ? How long have you been together?

We don't officially live together although my partner stays over alot, and his divorce is ongoing. The kids come and stay with both of us at my house usually EOW. It must be a confusing situation which has not been helped by the narcissistic ex dragging the divorce out for yonks. My partner hasn't decided for certain what he will do going forward re his living situation but currently splits his time between mine and his parents. Sometimes the kids stay with him at the grandparents although there is not enough space really so mostly come to mine.

This behaviour has been going on as long as I've known the kids.

@yogasaurs I do worry this kid may be narcissistic like the mum as some of the behaviour is indicating it, but equally I'm hoping something can be done and that my partner can turn things around somehow with the right approach.

I have been with my partner for a few years now.

Why is your boyfriend telling them both off? Only one of them seems to be at fault here and he really should be pulling her up on her behaviour. I am not a stepparent but I would have to say something to the teenager along the lines of no one treats my child that way and hurts him on purpose and I know your Dad wouldn't stand by and watch someone aged 20 do the same to you (same age gap)

If it continues then I wouldn't want her in my house good behaviour or not. She has to see that there are consequences to her actions. Also good for her to think about if someone did it to her.

I would suggest he gets her a bit of support - 13 is a tricky age. They can be in pain emotionally and the only way they have of dealing with it is to deal out more pain. They need some guidance - and they may feel their is too much going on or even be conscious of it.

There are plenty of books on Teenagers and the way they process situations. I dealt with pre teen years so can not recommend.

I would encourage him to call it out every single time and in front of the younger sib so they see that Dad has their back. Even "good" divorces cause pain and if things are challenging then the 13 year old is peak impact age!

@BerryGoodPuddingSir thanks that sounds like a good approach. I think he needs to get clearer that it is the 13 year old at fault instigating things, although I know she will turn it around and play the victim as she does this alot too. She seems quite manipulative. The younger child sometimes hits back, so they both end up being told off.

Thanks @Marblessolveeverything I will suggest he get the 13 year old counselling to process the divorce.

@Tosca23 the reason I say refer to her being protected too is to point out that it isn't just about your child but all of them being protected from other people's bad behaviour. Re the hitting back, only one of them is above the age of criminal responsibility and it is her. I would also maybe have a chat to her about what she thinks might happen if the 6 year old tells a teacher at school he is being hit by a teenager in his home? Because he could well do that.

And yes, I would call out the behaviour every time I saw it, always using positive words ie say the behaviour you want to see, like it would be lovely if you two could play nicely together. She is old enough that she can move herself away from the situation if she can feel herself getting cross.

None of the children are mine. They are all my partner's kids

@yogasaurus had the same happen here. We had to go down the path you did.

Luckily we have multiple homes so it was easier in that regard. Weirdly my dsd also wants time with me solo( without my kids) which is tricky but we make it work.

Also op as a child there is still time to turn it sound for dsd. Their brains are still flexible at that age, that's why narcissistic disorder is never given to a child. Have a look at conduct disorder. With counselling and firm but fair boundaries hopefully you can get your dsd13 to stop hurting your dss8.

It's worth pointing out to your partner that if he doesn't address this now, the behaviour could escalate.

Telling them both to stop is pretty feeble and fails to help either of them.

Can he spend 1:1 time with them?

I'd be worried if a 13yo was consistently bullying a 6yo. It's just horrible and he needs zero tolerance for it, while sorting out the underlying issues.

In your shoes, I'd be tempted to spend time with 6yo playing/reading/crafting just to get them away from the situation. But mostly their dad needs to step up.

I can understand her logic. Your baby is perhaps the only sibling she can relate to. She's in a far from ideal situation with 7 step siblings. She's the only child seemingly having to contend with that.

So op doesn't have kids of her own, she has three DSc (that's it )

And ops step daughter 13 is bullying the younger one who's 7/8.

No baby mentioned...

Sorry that's supposed to read 6/7

So we have a narcissistic ex, a father who can’t parent his children, dads partner talking on responsibility of trying to fix a parenting issue. Reads almost like a script.

First off the 13 year old should not be bullying her sibling. No ifs or buts about it.
There is generally a reason for any ‘bad’ behaviour children exhibit. It can be looking for attention, acting out due to trauma/divorce/anger/hurt, undiagnosed SEN, pushing boundaries etc. The reason is very unlikely due to narcissistic personality disorder (13 year olds can be very self centred alright). She should be disciplined but also try figure out what is really going on.

You say she is the middle child and so your partner has been a father for over 13 years and still can’t parent his children. This should have been dealt with when it started and the longer it goes on the harder it get to deal with. If she doesn’t listen to him now she is hardly going to start listening to him when she is 15/16.

Can you figure out from other children if the behaviour is the same in both houses this would help narrow down why it’s happening. She may need counselling. In fact as your dp is labelling the ex as narcissistic then the kids would definitely need counselling as they would have witnessed some incredibly toxic behaviour in the parents relationship.

Realistically this isn’t your issue to solve and if your DP isn’t stepping up here and it is falling on your to solve then you have bigger issues then the 13 year old bullying her sibling.

Well we have been trying for a child, but unfortunately I've had a couple of miscarriages.

I don't generally take on parenting responsibilities for my partner's kids, but want the best for them and have certain rules in my house. It would be irresponsible for me to idly watch one child repeatedly cause mostly emotional pain in a much younger child and do nothing to try to help support my partner though.

Thanks yes, I do believe the 13 year old needs counselling and there are underlying issues. Hopefully he can get her some professional help.

To be fair to my partner, he is a lovely sweet man who is under a lot of pressure. He is at his wits end with the situation and says he has tried various things in the past and nothing has worked. He is a good dad in very many ways - loving, kind, shows up for his kids, consistent in seeing them and always there for them. I think he is a bit of a guilty dad/Disney dad and probably needs to be tougher with following through on actions having consequences, but we are working together to try to sort things out.

I don't know what is happening at the children's main home, and to be honest the situation with the ex is so bad it's more parallel parenting than co parenting. The kids undoubtedly have a tough situation.

I am sorry for your losses @Tosca23. However, I would now wait until the issues with the 13yo are more under control before bringing a new sibling into the mix.