DSD wants to live with us

[csigeek]

DSD14 is not getting on with her mum, in a fairly spectacular way, at the moment. Most of it is usual teen stuff but there is a lot of things that she tells us (all taken with a generous pinch of salt) that, if genuinely true and even half as bad as she is telling us, are emotional abuse on her mothers part. I'm under no illusions that she will be embellishing her stories but there have been instances recently where she has been genuinely scared of her mother and she has recorded her screaming at her. These have included some truly unforgivable comments (think wish you'd never been born, you ruin my life type comments).
We live an hour and a half away, she comes EOW and most of all school holidays currently. Increasing her visits are a no go as her mother won't agree to every weekend as she wants her home to babysit her little sister. Weekdays would be impossible because of the travel time to school.
She has come to us this weekend in absolute bits. Her mum did text in the week saying she had taken her phone away due to excessive screen time, usually a text from mum about behaviour/arguments they've had/telling a off precede a very upset DSD telling us of another awful interaction. We always try to give the benefit of the doubt to her mum as we know what teen girls can be like, but some of the things DSD has told us she has said to her are just shocking. She was sobbing on my shoulder and asked if she can come and live here, previously she has said she would want to but doesn't want to leave her friends as we are so far away but the "only thing" keeping her at home is her friends/school. I said if you're serious we will look into how we can make it happen and she said yes please.
So my question is really, where do we start? I know her mum will 100% oppose it and will make life difficult, but do we need to consider anything legally? There is no official custody agreement, DH and DSD's mum were never married and they just agreed everything between them. Has anyone got any advice/experience in this kind of thing? Do we go straight to a solicitor now and figure out our options?

My dd is the same year group. Around here it was a pudding bowl year so many of the schools are bursting in year 10. I agree with the comments to find out where your dsd could fit in and the best fit for what she has studied thus far. The only other thing you could do, finances permitting, is for her to go privately and drop down a year. It’s really important she has the smoothest transition possible as this could affect her potentially as much as remaining at her mum’s for the next 18 months. I say this as someone, who had a difficult home life growing up.

Emotional well-being g before education.

Education is a marathon not a sprint. Mental health takes years to undo if damaged.

She's a 14yo willing to move 1.5 hours away. She isn't taking this lightly and you're doing the right thing but taking it seriously.

If your doing it I'd do it now. Year 10 is much better than year 11. Plus if it does impact on GCSEs she can resit. It's also plausible the relationship breakdown with mum would impact if she stayed. It definitely sounds like it's in her best interests to move. She can still maintain her relationship with mum, sister, friends but from a home she feels safe and wanted in.

@csigeek do you have teenagers?

One of the biggest downfalls of being a teenager with divorced parents is having the opportunity to try and manipulate two parties ‘at war’ in order to get what they want. Guess what, it’s the child who suffers.

To simplify this: the mum does 80%of the PARENTING. That includes making sure they go to school/study/sleep/ear/wash/are home on time/don’t behave like arseholes. Then that their emotional needs are meet, even when the end of the world is neigh because she can’t have a takeaway, the phone at the dinner table, or she’s fallen out with kids at school.

A grown up would go: do you know what, I am an adult, I pay my own bills, I know I’ll be in debt, but I want a takeaway and an big online clothes order now, be up all night and not go to work tomorrow cause I just want to. Fine. A teenager doing the same is not exerting the same right.

So what they do, they think the other parent owes them, because they left/don’t live with them/have acted like a Disney parent for years. I know, I’ll go to Dad’s, he will let me do whatever I want, not like my abusive mother.

The only problem with that is that you’re not doing that teenager any favours. And in the long run they’ll grow up and resent you for being a deadbeat parent. They learn the hard way.

OR
The mother could actually be abusive.. refusing to allow weekly visits to dad because she is needed for babysitting... along with recorded rants stating ' I wish you had never been born' are not a great body of evidence in support of your theory .

Personally I would rather a teenager 'got their own way' than risk them suffering emotional abuse.

... and if your thoughts are even slightly close to the mark it won't do dad any harm to experience the full on reality of parenting a teenager and perhaps make him more able to work with the mother on supportive co parenting strategies.

Before you do anything I would agree some new house rules. What rules would be in place for internet and device uses on school nights. Expectations around homework and seeing friends. Rules about bedtimes and who is responsible for ensuring school uniform, school lunches etc are made. How often her room needs tidying and what other household chores she needs to help with.

Put all this to her, gauge the reaction. Teens can be manipulative, what she says could be true but it could also be a way to get out of having to take on more responsibilities as she gets older and firm boundaries at mums house designed to make sure she does well in her GCSEs.

Your DSD has provided evidence of emotional abuse. Her father needs to be stepping up here to protect her.

You sound amazing OP. As others have said, the school move in Y10, whilst not ideal, is better than her being left in an abusive situation.

To simplify this: the mum does 80%of the PARENTING. That includes making sure they go to school/study/sleep/ear/wash/are home on time/don’t behave like arseholes. Then that their emotional needs are meet, even when the end of the world is neigh because she can’t have a takeaway, the phone at the dinner table, or she’s fallen out with kids at school.

None of that excuses telling your child that they have "ruined my life" or " i wish you'd never been born", though does it? How is a child of any age supposed to react to that? Or is it ok for the mother to say that because....well she's the mum so she can do or say anything with no fucks given as to how it affects the child?

Wow, lots of responses over night, lots of great comments and advice of things to consider so thank you all.
For some additional context and to answer some questions.
DH is 100% in support of DSD, he wants to make sure she is safe and happy but is worried her mum will make life very difficult. Every other occasion he has broached any subject with her (additional contact etc) she has been extremely hostile and most often shuts down the conversation with a "you will never see your daughter again if I don't get my way". He is terrified she will follow through on that if he pushes her coming to live with us.
If we hadn't heard with our own ears the awful things and the tone of voice being used we would take a healthy pinch of salt with everything DSD has told us, I don't have teenage girls myself (I have boys so quite different) but I used to be one so I know all the tricks! We have had the conversations about how the things she doesn't like at home and the things she argues with her mum over (screen time, meeting friends, doing chores) wouldn't necessarily be different here as we have ground rules too and she needs to resolve that both her and at her mums. Living full time with someone is very different to EOW and holidays.
We had considered moving school in yr10 is not ideal and the best thing would to try to get her through her GCSE years and then move her but like other PP's have said her mental and emotional well-being is most important. To be honest, though, we had not thought about the syllabuses being different and the possibility of her repeating work and missing out some entirely so that's a really great piece of advice, thank you.
We do have some great schools in our area, she went to primary here so still has some friends she might regain contact with.
I think next steps are for DH and her to sit down today and have a real conversation about all of these things and say we can start looking at schools and talk to a solicitor but she needs to calm down from the last blow up before making what is, realistically, a life changing decision.

Sorry that should read she needs to respect that both here and at her mums, regarding the ground rules.

Agree that something this big needs her Dad at the front it, rather than you.

In terms of sorting drama from reality, does the ex have form for this sort of behaviour or is it a new thing? Does DSD? The shouting sounds grim. And DSD shouldn’t be stopped from seeing her dad because she’s required to babysit.

Even if she doesn’t come to live with you, your DH should get a court order for the contact that would be best for his DD. He shouldn’t be “terrified” of his ex withholding access.

Have you actually discussed this with her mum?

Could she potentially repeat year 10 if necessary?

Reading back over your OP.. you mentioned they were not married. Can I just check that he is named on her birth certificate and therefore has PR ?

If not - then visiting has been by mothers consent up to now. He needs to fill in form C1 downloaded from HMCTS https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/1093225/C110722save.pdf and pay the fee currently £232.

Although this fee is reduced if you are in benefits or a low wage.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-help-with-court-and-tribunal-fees

You can of course engage a family solicitor but you will essentially be paying £££ for filling in a form.

If he is named on the certificate then he is an equal parent and DD can live with who she wishes at 14 . The parent who doesn't agree will have to incur the expense of taking the other parent to the family court for a child arrangement order. (Same form as above). However - at 14 a child is regarded as 'Gillick competent' unless there are significant LDs and her wishes will be respected.

If money is no object csigeek then by all means engage a solicitor but it is the absolute norm these days to self represent.

TBH he should have got a CAO years ago as it would have nipped the 'do as I say or you won't see her' abhorrent behaviour in the bud.. Nevertheless it benefits you now as there is none and as such is free to move to which ever parent she fancies (given he does have PR of course)

At her age, friends are life. So of she's willing to move away from her friends things must be serious. Although not an ideal time to move schools, exams can always be re-taken whereas emotional abuse can take a much longer time to recover from.

Her mother can be as hostile as she likes and throw around whatever threats she wants but really what can she do?DSD is 14, she's old enough to decide where she wants to live and any problems the mother tries to cause will just push her DD away from her further.

OP,
The best thing you can do is to supprt her choice and support her mental health & wellbeing.

and buy as many revision books as it takes to help her with her GCSEs. Really focus on her revision and education. She'll be eternally grateful!

My step mum was a hero. I was studying GCSE Spanish when I moved in with her and she bought me dictionaries, we watched Spanish films together and she took me to a Spanish restaurant.

They seem like small things but feeling immersed in the subject was a lifesaver.

She also helped me revise English and we watched films together. And read books together.

Op you sound lovely. Teens can be full of drama but I think that her being expected to babysit every weekend shouldn't take president over a teens wants and needs.

What does mum say about it ?

My SD moved in with me and her day full time one week before school starting in year 11 it was chaos but it worked so don't worry too much about school... if you are able to Lee her at the school she's in obviously moving schools would be a different kettle of fish.

Be ready for mum to not act how you think she will. I would never of said my DDs mum would of just have her away full time to us and has been no face to face contact for 9 months now. She refused any type of 50/50 it was either she's with me and you guys EOW / half hols or vice Versa. So we had no choice but to go full time here and make it worse with work hours etc and school runs.

Hopefully your girls mum is more open minded and willing to work together :/

DSD have had a big chat today 121 and agreed that the drama of the recent blow up needs to settle and then we'll talk again next time she's with us.
We haven't broached this with her mum on this occasion and we do not want to cause a major row that DSD has to deal with alone - she had to go back there to go to school so it's not fair to cause her any problems and leave her to deal with it.
We have broached on previous occasions when there have been similar issues, albeit this time DSD is so much more upset. On those occasions mum has refused contact as "punishment" to both DSD and DH.
It's so far removed from how me and my ExH co-parent, I just don't have any kind of advice for my DH. She is categorically not the type to sit and have an adult conversation about the situation and see if from DSD's point of view.
DH is on the birth certificate so does have PR.
DSD works extremely hard at school, to the point we have been a bit concerned about the amount of pressure she puts on herself. I think this makes us feel confident she won't struggle with a school move, if it were yr11 we would probably think differently.
The only thing her mum has said about the latest was that she had had to give a punishment (sorry don't want to be too outing), which was fine and fitting but she ended the message with a sentence "and I definitely didn't yell at her like she will tell you I did". This rang alarm bells with DH because he'd had messages like that before and then DSD had told him the thing happened that her mum pre warned definitely didn't, this was when she was younger, so no teen dramatics.
I guess we just don't know what to do for the best because we don't want to make DSD stay in a living situation that is harmful but we also don't want to make a move and cause a, even short term, living nightmare for DSD.

I used to be the Step Daughter going home on a Sunday. Leaving my Dad and Step Mum was so awful that I used to feel sick in my stomach and deeply depressed.

I'm now 37 and I still have Sunday "going home blues" - it's so bad that I have needed so much therapy to process it.

Knowing I was leaving a loving safe home to live with my Mum who shouted, swore and withheld emotional support and love for another 5 days. It was traumatic.

Blergh. I hope your DSD is alright OP. You sound wonderful x

I remember wishing on my 9th birthday that I could go to boarding school!

Oh my gosh @Interoperability I'm so sorry you went through that that is how DSD feels most Sundays, perhaps not quite to the same extent but definite anxiety.
But it's precisely why we don't want to leave her in that situation.
Sending love x

Completely off topic and I could be totally misplaced to offer this advice but have you had a look at the stately homes thread ? Someone very close to me had similar experience and she finds that thread really helpful.

I'm sorry you had to go through this. It's not fair or right xx

Op I'm so sorry your in this situation and sorry for your DSD. I totally get that this has to be handled carefully as to not cause DSD any issues at home (while she's there) not much advice but to say sounds like if it doesn't resolve itself then a school move shouldn't be too harder a hurdle to overcome if that's the choice she makes.

You sound lovely she's lucky to have you 💐

@hourbyhour101 Thank you! I haven't seen that thread but I'll have a look as I am struggling now my mum is aging and it sounds like itll help. X

@csigeek She's a lucky girl to have you and your DH x

I second the recommendation for that thread it has helped me a couple of times I’ve posted on it under a different user name. I’ve also just started EMDR for cPTSD which is being extremely helpful in helping me process childhood trauma.