Can we keep sd here ?

[howtohandlethisnow]

I don't want to drip feed and can do a longer post later, but sd 13 has come to stay at ours for a period over Xmas but we seriously think she should stay here with us, due to ongoing issues with her mum constantly kicking her out the house and allowing her to stay at friends houses for weeks on end.
Can we keep her here ?? She won't want to stay but we know it's in her best interests to stay here, she doesn't have a stable home life, constant arguments and fights with her mum, sofa surfing, school suspensions etc

And if so, how do we handle the fallout ?? Her mum won't mind her staying for a short period but she won't won't her here permanently ! But she can't keep kicking her out when they've had a row it's just not okay !!

What does the parenting agreement say?

Her mother has parental rights- so the very short answer is no- you cannot simply fail to return the child to her mother- unless you have a court order in place which says otherwise.

Given she won't want to stay, how would you make her?

Posted too soon sorry!

If your concerns are as significant as you say in respect your SD's home life when with her mother, then her father will have to raise this as part of any contact order/ variation of a contact order he is seeking via the court.

Does her father have parental responsibility and is there a child arrangements order? If he has PR and there isn't an order then she can stay with you - there is no law that says a child has to be returned from one parent with PR to another with PR, in the absence of an order.

If there is an order, then you'd need to apply to court to vary it in your favour.

If he doesn't have PR then the mother could report to the police to have the child returned.

If the child won't want to stay with you then it sounds like you'll need the backing of a court order anyway, to make anything stick. Even then though, she's of an age where her opinion will be taken into consideration. Much easier if she's on side, but of course welfare concerns would be taken into consideration.

I'd get legal advice, but in the short term, yes, she can stay with her dad.

Oh, but I think the law is slightly different in Scotland, if that's where you are. You're really best getting legal advice.

An acquaintance of mine ended up having her stbsd stay with her, but this was after physical abuse was reported to the police and SS and the SD definitely wanted to stay with her dad and stbsm.

I think if you truly believe she is being neglected which she is if she is being repeatedly kicked out of her home, then you need to report it and try to get custody of her. Her choice will come into it to a degree as children have a right to express their views on where they live and have a right to have access to their parents unless to do so would be harmful.

Tl:Dr no, you cannot just keep her, but you can take steps to have her with you more or all the time

Thank you everyone.

Sd has called the police at least 3 times on her mother saying that she's been hit/grabbed. I think what's happened by the sound of it is her mum has lost her temper, but that isn't any justification. Teenagers are hard work we all know that and sd is no different she isn't an angel. But repeatedly kicking her out of her home surely comes as failing to protect her ? Any kind of disagreement she kicks her out. Then doesn't let her back in the house when she turns up at the door.

There is a social worker involved coming to see us so we will obviously be making our concerns known. We did tell the last social worker all this but it's now been passed on to someone else.

Sorry should've said, there is a cao in place and it states she is to come to ours every other weekend, but her dad does have pr

We did.
SDD was quite young and we had concerns when we collected her and when we got her to ours she was telling us some things about her home life that rang alarm bells for us. We booked an emergency appointment with a family solicitor and informed the mother that we would not be returning DSD and then went through the court process. We were granted an interim order and the court notified SS to investigated before the final order was granted (in our favour), It did not go down well but DSD was our priority so the threats from her mother just went over our heads TBH. DSD remained with us (well me, as her DF left 7 years later for OW but that's another thread) until she was 18. That was 25+ years ago so things have probably changed legally by now though.

You sound like an amazing step mother x

Thankyou.

@howtohandlethisnow I will report your last comment for NC fail x

I agree you sound lovely !

Does your SD have any additional needs?

As what you do depends on this.

@Reugny no she doesn't

Would speaking to a solicitor or SS be an option OP? I do understand that it's Friday evening, so possibly Monday morning.

One question though - how will you deal with DSD of you already suspect that she won't want to stay with you?

We've spoken to the social worker today (she already has one) she has said ultimately it's our choice what we want to do.. If dad wants to use his PR then he can.
Tbh I thought they might give some input/advice but nothing !

And not sure atm but it's a safeguarding concern isn't it being kicked out the house all the time. We need to try and get her to understand it's not safe and it's in her best interests to come and live with us. Not just that, she has been mixed up with the wrong crowd for a while. Smoking weed, vaping, refusing to go to school, suspension etc, sneaking out of the house a couple of time in the early hours of the morning

Given that your sd sounds like an older teen I would imagine that keeping her there against her will is not likely to be successful. She will simply walk out when she has had enough and will return to her mum or wherever. I think you sound a little naive to think that you can change things with your good parenting. Chances are your relationship with her will break down when you start trying to parent her full time. What might work better would be to offer more time at yours. Presenting it as a choice or an offer to allow her and her mum more space when things are fraught is more likely to be accepted.

We've done this she doesn't want to spend much time here because we have rules basically... only normal rules like turning her phone off at 11pm and tidying her room etc nothing major ! But because her mum doesn't have these rules she thinks we are being unfair. No she's not an older teen, nearly 14

So what will you do when there is a row and she returns to her mother or starts being verbally aggressive and school refuses? What is she votes with her feet?

OP, At 14, your SDs wishes about where she wants to live will be taken into account if you go to court.

We went through this with my husbands children (one the same age as your SD and one slightly younger) when he wanted more time with them. The court sent someone to speak to them, they said they didn't want to come more. Court listened to them and unfortunately the whole process caused them to resent my husband

We haven't seen them at all now for over a year. He tried to enforce the court order that we did get (just firming up already existing arrangements not the additional time he wanted) but again they said "we're not going" and court accepted that and wouldn't enforce the order

Be careful that you don't end up pushing your SD away altogether

I understand where you're both coming from. But this is a situation that's been getting worse and worse. How can we continue to see her thrown out on the streets and sofa surf? She hasn't had any of her own clothes for the last 3 weeks because she was thrown out without them and wasn't allowed back in the house to get any...
I'm not saying we're going to have her here and transform her, it's going to be hard work of course but we have to try surely ?

Where is she going when she's thrown out? Can you speak to whoever that is and ask that they contact her dad/you whenever she turns up, so you can collect her?

Your biggest issue here is her unwillingness to stay with you guys as she's enjoying doing what she wants. If she has no other alternative, hopefully it'll be easier for her to see the benefit of staying with you.

She's sofa surfing at 13 yrs old...bloody hell yes I'd be trying my very best to get her living with me.
That's just unbelievable...she's so young and vulnerable.
We have dsd living full-time with us , mostly me, as dp away with work but that is because she has had a significant eating disorder and after a long hospital stay her mother was pretty hopeless and we just offered...if we'd said we are the better place for her, I know DPs ex would have argued against it..so we sold it as "gosh dsd is so difficult to manage..you must be exhausted..blah blah...shall we just keep her a bit longer to give you a break?".
This worked and 4 yrs later she is still here