It's never going to get better, is it?

[HollyGoLoudly1]

No problems with my DSD; I love her, we get on well, always have.

But her mother. My God. 6 years down the line (7 since they split up, I'm not OW before anyone asks) and yet another weekend is being ruined by yet another kick off.

How naive I was to think that being considerate, calm and reasonable would get us anywhere. Nothing we do is right and no opportunity to make life difficult is lost, no matter the cost to anyone including DSD.

It's her way or the highway, she's right we're wrong - always - and there seems to be absolutely nothing we can do about it. Except put on a brave face for DSD and pick up the pieces like we always do.

And rant on MN.

I'm not a SP but have you heard of/tried the grey rock technique? Sounds like it might be useful in this case.

I'd also agree that getting contact court ordered might be helpful.

I know it seems entirely reasonable to ask to move the meeting place but clearly this person is not reasonable so I'd give them as little ammo as you possibly can. Request absolutely nothing from her, don't ask to move or change any arrangements unless it is completely unavoidable.

In a few years things may well change as DSD becomes capable of having direct contact with her dad, until then you might just need to plough through. Sorry you're having a rough time.

We don't have a court order, it's just what contact they agreed when they split.

I'm very hesitant about court orders to be honest. He has looked into it previously at the time of the divorce and in a fit of desperation again a few years ago. The advice both times was they're incredibly expensive and not worth the paper they're written on if the other party is determined to make things difficult. A few years of loitering on the stepparent board here has backed this up, how many people on here have spoken about contact orders being broken and only getting a slap on the wrist? And spending thousands each time. I honestly don't see it solving this.

I'm sorry, I realise I sound so negative about all the helpful advice. I do appreciate it all.

Just to give a ray of hope, it can get better! My SS is nearly 20, been with DH since SS was 4. BM was (is) a control freak and we had years of continued shit. Fast forward to when SS was about 15 or 16 and all communication went through him, she went very quiet with the occasional outburst. We feared that SS would be totally influenced her but actually it's the opposite, we'd now say he's actually a good last. He knows exactly what BM is like and appreciates our efforts to be the exact opposite. We all have a really good relationship and I NEVER thought I'd be able to say that! I know how tough it can be but if you love your DH, which I'm sure you do, hang in there as best you can, it won't be forever x

I've just googled Grey Rock, it's very interesting. It does sounds like what he needs to do unfortunately and just accept that for the timebeing she gets to dictate things. Just having a strategy to go to could at least feel like we have a small bit of control back.

@HollyGoLoudly1 tbh no, I mean I get on well with DSD mum on the whole. We have had issues in the past and bumps but nothing like what your facing with mum.

That said it's all going somewhat ok and it's incredibly hard still. I can't imagine what it's like for you but plenty of my friends have. Seems to be a reoccurring theme.

Also teenage years just suck the soul of you. Get wine in.

Thank you for this, it's made me tear up. Glad things have worked out for you and I hope with every fibre of my being that it's the same for us.

He can apply for mediation and a court order without a solicitor. It cost 215£.

The problem is you (and DP) are trying to apply reasonable logic to an unreasonable person. You can’t get to a logical, sensible place with people like this.

that is when a court order is required, the courts aren’t there for shits and giggles and yes she can absolutely break it but that doesn’t and won’t go down well each time she’s hauled in for a breach.
If DSC is 10 or older then you’ve probably missed the boat with it to be honest, he should have arranged a contact order from the end of the relationship.

I’d suggest that he puts in writing that he’s no longer willing to be subjected to abuse from her. And that it is unacceptable for her to use contact with their daughter as a means to cause trouble.

I’d inform her that, from now on, contact will take place exactly as agreed. She will only contact him with information about their daughter via email or a co-parenting app. He is changing his number and will not be sharing it with her because she cannot be trusted not to abuse him.

Sadly, that gives no flexibility to you. But it’s the only way to remove her power. There is nothing he can do to prevent her from being awful or turning their daughter against him. All he can do it put boundaries in place to protect you and your child from this crap, and stick firm to the agreed contact with SD.

It NEVER gets any better. These woman are so emotionally damaged they are unable to act like reasonable human beings. She will not change & you need to develop coping strategies and set boundaries.

My now OH was only married to his EW for 9 years, they have been split up / divorced for over 10 years and the batshittery continues. The woman is toxic.

They have a contact agreement and I can’t remember how many times she’s been taken back to court for breaching it. But she doesn’t care, she’s in charge, she has to be in control & everyone has to jump to her tune and do it her way.

The DSC are now 16 & 13. They are controlled by her - for example they aren’t allowed to call their dad ‘dad’ - he’s only allowed to be called ‘him’ in her presence. They aren’t allowed to take ‘her’ clothes to his house. I could go on….. The amount of cruel things she has done to her own children, using them as weapons to get back at him (the dad) is absolutely unbelievable. If a man did these things to a woman it would be viewed as emotional abuse. But these woman get away with it again and again.

Social services don’t care, nor do CAFCASS. Years of her having her wrists slapped for her appalling behaviour and alienating her own kids.

The 16 YO SD is now so poisoned by her mother - after years of the poison being dropped in her ears, she’s become toxic herself. The 13 YO SS sees what is happening.

My advice would be to disengage or the drama the woman causes will drive you crazy. I had to disengage for my own sanity (you wouldn’t believe the shit she has pulled - including getting her daughter to take photos of our bank statements and private messages on her dads phone to give to her).

Good luck. And remember….. ignore, Ignore, ignore….

Can I ask because I'm completely naive in terms of the courts.

When people mention slap on wrist what does that actually involve ? Surely with people spending so much bloody money on this there must be a way courts could hold people accountable.

Salute to all you going through this and still standing.

With us, I think EW just takes it out on us, whatever is going on for her…
my OH meets her figuratively and literally well over halfway. Weekends are cancelled on a whim (always “out of her control “), and now she wants us to plan holidays around her parents (DSD’s grandparents)!
we no longer tell DD when her sister is due over as the fall out for a no-show is unbearable. It’s just not fair on either child., or their sibling relationship.
EW has moved 100 miles away, which doesn’t help….
I’m looking forward to when DSD is an adult and we can make arrangements directly with her.
in the mean time… breathe… have a cuppa and vent to those of us who ‘get it’ x

@Steptoeandson what told by the court don't do it again ? And that's it... surely if it's bad enough to go to court there would be stronger incentive to do more than you have been bad. I despair !

Thanks for clarifying for me. I always wondered !

Hi OP, not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, use a parenting ap, keeps a record and everything in one place. Notifications can be silenced. Block her on everything else, give her a number for emergencies only, if she abuses that block it too. We had to send police around to my husbands x in the end to get her to stop sending letters, think we may have just got lucky a PC went around a had a word, it was after years of putting up with multiple page letters full of false accusations/ criticism and telling us what to do. It has got better, but it has been 10 years, she took us to court 1 last time and failed and for some reason accepted it. Feel the same as you, if I’d known then what I know now I would not have made the same choices. Really recommend a parenting ap.

@HollyGoLoudly1 I strongly recommend you and your DH read the book "Say Goodbye to Crazy" by Dr. Tara J Palmatier and Paul Elam. It's a very tough read with no easy solutions but you know what they say about the definition of insanity - doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result. You've had 6 years of this so time to either get a court order or change how you respond to her.

Thank you everyone for the kind words and advice. I am looking into all of it and it really does help to know people understand what we're going through and that I'm not some evil, interfering step-monster.

£50k in court fees 😭We have nowhere near that kind of money. I'm really sorry for everyone else going through this too and become more astonished as time goes by at the complete lack of help for separated parents.

I knew a woman whose ex genuinely was a total shit who had behaved appallingly during their break up etc and I was very supportive of her. BUT... the one problem is that her (understandable) anger and bitterness made things even worse and when he started to genuinely be a better father/man, it took a couple of years before she was willing to accept it.

I also have a BIL who literally is so unreasonable that he genuinely thinks things the rest of the world think is batshit.

I think in both cases, the only solution is to do as little as possible to interact and, most importantly, knowing that their responses will be irrational, do as much as you can to not request or change anything. It's not fair, but it is what it is.

I was going to ask was she still single but see she has a boyfriend. Is it quite a new relationship? My DH's ex calmed down considerably once she ended up in a serious relationship.

We went through this too. I'm afraid a court order is just a piece of paper and come Friday evening when she withholds contact and courts are all closed it's a useless piece of paper.

DH always danced to her tune as she had all the power because she had the children. As step mum it was frustrating as we could never plan things and it was upsetting to see how it affected DH.

The kids were obviously hearing poison at home and I remember one occasion when I was alone with dsd aged five when she asked me if her daddy was a liar. Just heartbreaking

Dsd is adult now. Her mental health is rubbish and she doesn't have friends preferring to isolate herself. She has social anxiety and does not have a good relationship with either parent. In fact I am the only one who gets birthday cards and presents from her. It's very sad and I worry about her all the time. DH tried so hard and is so hurt by the way she treats him. I think if he had the time over again whether he would just walk away.

@Steptoeandson thank you for clarifying although I had the jist of things, it seems courts really do very little when things get extreme.

Op I'm so sorry lovely and @annonymousse I'm sorry for yo, DH and your DSD.

God I really thought they must be able to do something more !