DSC and homework

[candlesandpitchforks]

Feel like I'm gonna be flamed for asking this but I need advice and welcome advice from SP, mums/dads and children of SC but please can we keep the topic constructive as I'm sleep deprived and genuinely just need advice from the wider group to hopefully improve a situation we having rather than the usually unhelpful comments.

So background info (I won't write my life story on here so anything I have missed just ask)

• been with DH for 5yearsish - no I wasn't other women and yes get on great (on the whole) with DSD mum.
• DSD mum has a partner and been with him a while too
• have two children between us, each bring one child from a previous marriage and one shared child.

-DSD is 13 and non Nero typical. We have her 3 night a week.

So my lovely DSD is Brillant, funny and clever but we are encountering a issue which I don't think is step family isolated but that maybe playing a part.

DSD keeps getting detentions for not doing homework and also not going to detentions. Both mum and DH are are wits end because she's been saying she's done all her homework and even showing them "work" which turns out to be class work not homework. School have offered extra support as in homework club after school or in lunch breaks which DSD has been saying she's going to but turns out she hasn't. She's been punished for lying by losing privileges and tech on both sides (both houses mirroring punishments) but to no effect. Like 0 effect.

DH sits down with her on our evening and makes her do it with his help on our nights but DSD has started complaining to mum about this and it's causing issues because DSD says she wants to play computer and that's what she does at mums and is threatening to stop coming if dad "won't chill out about homework" aka not force her to do it.

Now usually I would not be getting involved
Mums approach is now if she goes to detention or doesn't, doesn't homework it doesn't matter, as "she was bad at school and DSC takes after her and isn't bright" - the problem with that is DSD is very very bright and i can see this having a negative impact on her future.

I'm not in any role to get involved other than to support but has anyone faced this and had any tricks that worked ? I would say we tried the whole reward but the rewards DSD will do for homework for is one computer game for one piece of work and that would slowly bankrupt us.

Mums spoken to me and she's said I have yelled, I have forced her to do it and she lies and says it's done and has said she just can't anymore. Which I totally get tbh getting one bit of work done takes about 3hrs per piece. It's a nightmare and there's a far amount of homework being set and non gets done without considerable effort

We did pay for a private tutor for her that specialised in NT kids and she said DSD was v bright and could do the homework but just didn't want to and this wasn't a capacity issue so much as a teen issue so mum said for us to stop it as it was waste of time.

I'm probably shouldn't care about this so much but DSD is really so very clever and I can see the school starting to write her off and DSD being lost in the crowd.

Also mum hasn't wanted DSD to have a official diagnosis shared with school due to her own reasons (in short she doesn't believe in nerodiverance and she's entitled to that view point but it's not my place to judge her either way only work within parameters I have got)

I feel like sticking head in oven and yelling. I don't agree that DSD is a lost cause on this front, but I'm at a loss at what to do next.

I dread the email ping when she's gotten yet another detention for this as both mum and DH are at end of rag and I'm pretty sure our approach must be wrong for this all to be going so horribly wrong.

I have spoken to DSD and asked why she doesn't do it if she struggling or go to detention and the answer I have gotten is "it's not because I can't do it it's because I don't want to" which to me makes sense if admittedly not helpful to the situation.

Help

Does she have an official diagnosis? It's just that mum doesn't want to share it with the school? How does dad feel about that? Tbh if I were dad I'd be telling the school. This is his daughter's future here.

What is schools plan here? Are they just going to keep giving her detention for her to ignore or suspend her?

I don't like the idea of homework. Who wants to do a full week of work, especially if she has to balance and ND, and then work at home as well. Just tell the school no more homework and no more detentions. Work on her health, her emotions and help her find calm at home.

She does and in my completely uneducated experience it's crystal clear if you met my DSD but girls tend to mask this particular issue so can't blame the school fully although it's a massive school and quite underfunded.

Yes mum has said under no certain terms cant we share it with the school or she will stop contact, which she did when I raised the spectre of getting DSD diagnosed (before she did) and DSD got very upset so we invited them both around she very bedrugingly let us get her help finally privately when a issue she witnessed at house forced her hand and I said look please I'm concerned ect. It's kept on her side like some deep dark family secret that everyone knows about but no one will acknowledge.

The school as in my opinion a obscene amount of homework.

School have said we have offered support in terms as doing it and clubs ect and DSD as ability to do it so have asked for parents support in making sure homework is done. They haven't mentioned exclusion but I don't know is that a thing ?

If I was the parent and not step parent would be telling the school tbh but that's not within my control.

I mean surely this would raise a flag with the school for them to make some investigations of their own without parents ? (I don't know secondary schools so please people weigh in)

Sorry if I sound at end of tether, I am tbh not with DSD but with the situation.

I'm trying my best in what feels like a rock and hard place.

I feel like I'm not educated enough in routes for help so maybe missing something.

Sorry if this is a really ignorant question, but why exactly does her mum not want to share her diagnosis with the school? Wonder what her worries are there as it seems counterproductive

@PenelopePufferfish

Sorry if this is a really ignorant question, but why exactly does her mum not want to share her diagnosis with the school? Wonder what her worries are there as it seems counterproductive

Not a dumb question at all. I may not completely capture the issue but from my understanding and obviously there maybe more to this but her parents seem to take the approach of everyone is classed as NT now day and it's all rubbish created by lazy parents and naughty children.

I do suspect that also she's worried that it would imply that DSD somehow not "normal" or something wrong with her and that really would fit with (mums) wider family as really don't like to present anything other than perfect picture family. I think mums worried it out "get out" so she her family would treat DSD differently or like a outsider.

Having heard some of the stories she's told me about her family personally I can see where's she's coming from.. I do have enormous amount of empathy for mum on that front alone.

Shame I think it comes from shame, which makes me sad as this isn't anything to be ashamed about.

Luckily or unluckily DSD has no idea on this because socially even if someone said something she wouldn't pick up on it. If that at all makes sense.

I am trying really hard to understand the mum's POV, but the problem is clearly that school don't know about dsd's diagnosis and they will end up punishing her for not completing work. That's actually pretty negligent.

Can she honestly stop all contact? Do you have a court order re contact?

What is her diagnosis?

Well the 2 obvious outcomes if nothing changes are

1. DSD starts getting punished in school & ends up school refusing
2. DH continues to push her to do homework & she decides to stop coming

I think it would be preferable to have an unofficial word with the school SENCO to flag up DSD’s diagnosis. Explain that mum is refusing to accept & ask them to perform an in-school assessment.

I’m assuming she has ASD & masks in school, so it may be that she genuinely can’t cope with the extra concentration at home.

ASD and again in my non educated experience- it's fairly noticeable even with the masking. If this was years gone by she would be described as highly eccentric and nothing more. @Starlightstarbright1 the area she struggles in are society norms and social aspects which is being worked on but my god you have to be really direct why and she doesn't get deep emotions to a degree.

We did start the court process the last time contact was cut but like fools mum said look we should be able to sort this out like adults without courts, which she did let us get DSD help ect .. I didn't quite realise it was going to be turned into a shameful thing no one would acknowledge on their side or kept a secret. This was clearly a mistake on our part.

@PenelopePufferfish I can slightly get it (older generation?) but I come from a different school of fish and although I have spent many years being frustrated/horrified by it (silently) I have to accept the situation for what it is and it's not my place to judge all I can do protect DSD where I can from ever having to hear peoples thoughts on it. Although again she really wouldn't twig unless you layed it out in black and white and even then probably wouldn't grasp it. Although personally it makes me seeth.. mum seems trapped because I know she's trying her best.

@Shelby2010 Daft question can I silently tip off the school without then saying oh that was candles. I'm willing to do it frankly I'm kinda willing to do it now regardless of the fight but I'm worried that DSD will come to know this is a thing. I think it might go as attendance refusal but I doubt it will be done in the traditional sense, she would probably say she's going to school but just bunk off (without realising at first mum and dad would be called) That said if we layed off I imagine she would just continue to poodle through if the school took no action as she has a group of friends and likely to follow the crowd as it were re attendance.

I tempted to agree with mum and say look this is causing to much pressure for her and tell dad to cool it but I'm not sure if it's the right move. If we say that I'm worried she will be like ok so is attending school optional as well.

This is a hot mess. I feel like I'm failing a young girl who with the right help really could achieve some amazing things. I can't stress how bright she is 😞 but I also don't want her shamed. It's not something in my head to be ashamed about.

Daft questions

• should I go to her head of year or tutor ? Or is there specific department.

• do they exclude children for no homework ?

• any out there ideas please throw at me. I'm willing to try anything

I'd expect the exclusion thing to be school specific. If a lot of their children homework dodge, then exclusion is off the table. If it's a no excuses place, heaven help you.

ASD girls often end up in way less than capacity employment. Probably worth thinking about it from the future backwards, if you get me. From what you've said about DSD, if she's going to succeed, it will be in some far out, off the wall, not yet invented perhaps field. She may not do homework if she can't see any benefit to her. Until you hook her self-interest and self-motivation, you'll be dragging a horse to water, but unable to make her drink. See if you get any response by talking to her about future life, career etc. Does she go there, or is she living only in the present?

I'd swear the 2 hours homework a night I got was intended to keep us in and not getting pregnant! (Bit of an epidemic in the back of beyond).

@SpaceshiptoMars only in the very current present. She's said in the past I want a house like this house candles (my house) and I explained that I had to work very hard to get it, got good grades, went to uni and worked way up. So I know there's a inking of wanting more. I also had to explain how I could pay for horses and her friends mum couldn't (she simply didn't understand how her mums friend couldn't wave a wand and just poff horses). In this respect she's a very young 13 tbh. Money or the concept is very much a people give me money and I spend it. We did do chores for extra money but she Simple's stated that why would she do that when she could just ask her mum and her mum would get it from us and that's less effort🙄😆 (I have to laugh because otherwise I would cry)

Kinda posed it as a work hard now so you don't have to work as hard when your old, which I thought had sunk in... and your totally right it's like a donkey...

I suspect mum saying you don't need to get good grades, and her mum telling her they get benefits for her and the house paid for didn't help tbh . I don't think mum was trying to do anything bad by saying that, more that "this is why you have to respect this house and moneys tight ect" but my lovely DSD thought oh good I can just get money from benefits and not have a job. Which DSD has confirmed this is what she now thinks 😵‍💫. This ties into mum not really believing the diagnosis because even her team have said - you need to be so black and white with her as she will take it all literally. It's hard to change her mind when she's decided on something too! But shall give what you said a proper go !! Can't hurt may just need to say it more than once !

Spaceships it's really so so tough 😵‍💫 I know part of me need to care little less but I'm not sure I can cope seeing all the potential just be frittered away.

We've had 'why should I work more hours, I'll only have to give you more rent'. And the gaming. And, the problem with literalness. We have to be so, so careful to be exact, otherwise we get 'But you prommmmmisssssed' type reactions.

Also lack of empathy. No emotional empathy, but to our delight a slow gathering of cognitive empathy. Once that snowball started rolling, it grew and grew. Whereas in childhood, pets would be left to starve if Mum hadn't intervened.

Is she nocturnal? How is her self-discipline? Are you looking at ADD as well as autism? What about demand avoidance?

OP I am a step-parent and also have experience working in a secondary school.

If your dh has parental responsibility he has an absolute duty to advise school of dsd diagnosis. For a number of reasons.

Firstly it will make dsd school life a bit easier. If her teachers and pastoral staff know, they can put all sorts of measures in place. They are probably pulling their hair out too (and wondering why parents haven't pressed for investigations/diagnosis) and it will be obvious to them what support she needs. Without this they have no obligation to offer her any extra support.

With a diagnosis she will be eligible for assessment for things like extra time in exams etc. The class teachers will know they have to give her extra support kand hopefully how to do this in the best way). They will be able to differentiate work for her (if required) and manage expectations around homework. The pastoral team will be able to negotiate and possibly cancel out the detentions (which will almost certainly escalate to internal isolation and exclusion if it continues). Teachers can be asked to ensure homework is written in the planner, and if not then no sanctions for not doing it.

If dmum threatens to withhold contact he should fight it. Every step of the way. Teachers want to support kids. Give them the information to support dsd and empower them to do so.

@SpaceshiptoMars nocturnal like a owl. Lacking of empathy is a massive problem I think we have spoken in the past of previous events .. which thankfully haven't reoccurred. Although some down right odd conversations...

Self discipline is non existent unless she's hyper focusing. But that's less to do with discipline and more interest, the spectre of ADD but therapist wasn't sure. Demand avoidance ?? Is that passively avoiding things like hygiene ect yes those are issues too !

@Fuuuuuckit I agree I'm just as frustrated tbh. Although my involvement will cause merry hell.. I just need to know which department to reach out to ?

I was thinking self-control over sweets/biscuits, getting things done on time, keeping her space in order....

Demand avoidance - outright no and sneaky yes, but not doing what was agreed - oh, I forgot - time after time. Not taking any responsibility for anything. Grrrrr. Exhausting!

Interest is good news. Much better than apathy. Hyperfocus gets you jobs too. She probably doesn't need to do homework to pass her exams. Absorbs enough just sitting in the classroom. Once past 17, it starts to get a bit harder and the lack of application gradually tells.

Is there a Gifted Child programme in your area? Sounds like she could do with a real challenge. Ours went to a school that entered them in national competitions.

@candlesandpitchforks pastoral/senco?

Although with my step-parent hat on I'd say that was a job for dad to speak to them. Don't get involved other than supporting him at this stage.

Bright kids who are not NT often have problems with organization and procrastination. They also tend to be tired after the school day. That means they need scaffolding and support to help them keep on top of both school work and homework, not a free pass to ignore it.

Depending on the diagnosis, detention for late work may be inappropriate as well.

You already know her mother is not doing the right thing here. It’s awful when a child is failed like this. She really does need a proper diagnosis and proper support on place. Often these conditions can be real assets, not liabilities if kids just get the support they need.

I would just try to support her as best as you can in your home and hope dad can keep pushing for a diagnosis and proper school support.

Kids with ASD often struggle with the whole concept of homework.

I would push going to the homework club after school (or ask the school to push it). If her parents won't put up a united front there's not a lot you can do to help I don't think.

Her dad needs to tell the school so that she can be properly supported. It’s completely negligent to not tell them. How can they possibly support her properly without this crucial piece of information.

I don’t necessarily disagree with her mum in that sometimes I think labels can be too prescriptive and can cause problems. I do see this can be an issue for some.
If your DSD had a diagnosis but she wasn’t having any day to day struggles and plodding along nicely then absolutely I can see the argument for keeping “labels” out of the picture.
But she’s not. And it does seem clear that the school aren’t managing her properly, likely because of this big Missing piece of information.

The mum cannot withhold contact, so that’s daft. As her parent he has rights, so I would take any blackmailing with a pinch of salt - although due to DSD age, a court would take into consideration her wants too. Access is a hard line to walk when they get a bit older, not as cut and dry.

The problem with really smart kids who don’t learn study skills is that eventually they encounter something hard enough they can’t coast anymore. It happens to all of us. I didn’t hit it until grad school, but it was an epic disaster. Schools really underserve this population.

@SpaceshiptoMars demand avoidance sound frustratingly familiar... I had a Google.maddening thing is she's in top sets for most things but I worry that the school may knock her down due to lack of homework or subsequent lack of interest which only seems to apply to gaming atm.. 😵‍💫 ohhh gifted program now there's a idea ! She could be bored ...

@Fuuuuuckit thank you again completely have no idea re secondary schools tbh all I know is this school isn't very well funded from what I know and large which not great. And I would usually agree with you usually tbh it should come from dad, I shouldn't say a thing as SM but as a person who genuinely thinks this situation is bonkers and wants to help I feel like if I don't I'm also letting her down. Rock and hard place.

I would love to harangue my DH more on this but he's very worried about contact being messed around with (again 🙄) and because of they way my DSD is, I'm not sure how she would take the break..Last time contact was refused because of this it caused massive upset with DSD and really only she suffered. I imagine it's awful for typical neurological kids, this type of game playing really hurts non NT kids.

@Ponderingwindow your complexly right she needs a solid framework.

Speaking frankly - I'm frustrated with both of them but I'm trying to tow the line and do what's best for DSD. They both have their reasons and I'm trying to find the right line of supportive. Hard.

@TeenPlusCat yes I'm gonna see if there isn't a way to incentivise homework club or at least get mum on board with it. Dad I don't need to convince but he might go a bit to hard the other way so may need him to relax on it a tad. You maybe right frustrating I know I'm in a limited position here.

@Googlecanthelpme sadly mum did withhold contact when I spoke about getting some help for DSD as I suspected a issue but she hadn't been diagnosed officially at that point. It really really messed DSD up which not seeing dad and sticking to the routine. We started court proceedings before mum said ok get some help and we can all play nice but genuinely think we should have proceeded at that point so have something formal in place but assumed everyone would pull together and no more messing around. I don't think DSD would want to change contact just because she hates change generally. I can set my watch by the time she will arrive home. I'm hoping that will continue into teenage years but that's probably wishful thinking !

I agree to a certain extent these labels can cause issues later down the line, if it was just one area she struggled but it's school, friendship, empathy for animals and people in general, and hygiene issues as well as sleep issues. We have tackled a few and she's made so much progress but school and friendships remain a problem