How much involvement is appropriate?

[Ajay96]

Hi,
Im looking for some opinions on how much involvement a step parent should have in their step child's life?
My personal experiences vary greatly on this one. My parents split when I was a baby, so I have no memories of them together, although they always got on well, very civil and no major dramas, except odd disagreement on what we were allowed to do.
My mum had 1 partner who I initially adored and was very involved in my life, to the extent I even told my dad I wanted to change my name to his, I was about 3/4 years old so didn't realise how hurtful this must've been for him. Unfortunately this didn't work out, and my mum has been single ever since, however I have lost count of how many partners my dad has had since then. Some have been amazing, being involved in daily activities etc, but my dad always had final say. One in particular was about for years and my dad would refer to her as my second mum, I was about 8/9 years old, and calling her that made me feel uncomfortable. I respected her greatly, and we are still in contact with each other now, but she wasn't my mum, and I felt step mum weird so I stuck with using her name. On the flip side, I had very difficult experiences aswell, to the extent it was clear they were jealous of our relationship, being my dads only daughter, I was his princess and he spoiled me, they hated it. They weren't involved in any aspect of my life, expect being there, however their actions actually resulted in my dad not enjoying or missing several special events in my life. These are purely my personal opinions and completely understand everyone's situation is different, that's why I need some help in understanding what I should expect from my sons, dads partner. When I initially split with his dad i was worried he would find a new partner my son would call her mum and forget about me, so I expressed my feelings and we agreed that we were his only mum and dad so wouldn't use these terms with a step parent and etc. After a few partners he has now settled with a girl, nearly 2 years, bought house together etc, I really don't know her as I have never been allowed to officially meet but I feel slightly off by her. There first meeting was accidental, as they didn't realise my son was at the house they were visiting so she kinda just ignored him, although upsetting I understand why she done it as she was unsure of what was appropriate and didn't want to over step boundary but felt it was very cold. After a few months, I wanted to realise them I was happy for her to be involved etc, just making sure they know I was happy with it, they were living together after all. Now moving forward 2 years, I feel she doesn't see him as family, and more an inconvenience at times. His dad takes him when she works but if she's off they always have plans, when his dad works weekends he can't keep him even though she's about in the morning, I even offered to pick up as soon as he woke up but the declined. They've been at least a dozen holidays, mainly short breaks and not once took my son. However she does post pictures on social media of them, one being a matching family pj one. Theyre In a 3 bedroom house and my son has the smallest room, basically a box, and they have a huge spare one for storage. Don't get me wrong my son does like her but never really talks about her as it's always dad that does things with him.
My relationship with his dad is complicated, so bringing up this subject will be difficult. So I basically want to know is what should I be expecting, where's the line of what is and isn't appropriate. Thank you in advance

I feel like this is a really interesting question especially based on your prior experiences.
I've had a stepdad who was involved to the point I saw (and still see, he's still married to DM) as a third parent. He lived with us, was interested and invested in our school work and extracurricular activities, did pocket money etc, but didn't overstep (in neither our dad's eyes nor ours).
I still have a "stepmum" (not married) who is much less bothered. Now we're older she likes to host family lunches etc which is nice, but she wasn't fussed about us as kids and it's influenced our current relationship.
My stepson has it the other way round, I would say. I've been with his dad since DSS was 10 months old (DSSM split with DH when DSS was 5 months, to start new relationship, I wasn't the OW 🙄) and he's always had a good sized room in our home, I love taking him swimming, to the park etc. It's always been our plan to have children, and I wanted it to be that DSS could compare his childhood spent with me and DH to our kids' childhood and not spot any differences. His mum has had a couple of serious boyfriends during his lifetime, and her current fiancé does not seem too fussed about him, which seems a shame to me.

Moving to your son's situation - the very sad thing about it is that no-one's feelings can be forced. It's my opinion that you shouldn't move in with someone with a child if you're not prepared to treat that child with the same respect and kindness as you would your nieces/nephews at the very least (note that I don't say anything about love). You say his dad takes him when he works - is there a set schedule? Depending on their storage needs, the box room situation could possibly be excused - again, you don't say how often your son spends the night there.
I think the main crux of the issue is how your son feels about her. If it's upsetting him to see his dad having experiences with his partner that mean your son is missing out on quality time with his dad, I would ask Ex why he isn't wanting to include his son on these holidays (do they ever holiday as a 3?)
The most important thing is your son feeling cherished and included in his father's life, and if this isn't happening the root cause needs to be looked at.
I hope some of this ramble helps 😅

You say his dad has him when he isn't working, sorry!

I’ve had many varied experiences of this on both sides. I had a stepmum who was my absolute guiding light. She influenced me in so many ways, every interest I have came from her, yet she wasn’t maternal in any way and never ever parented me.

I have been a stepmum in three relationships; my first marriage we had custody of his son from a previous relationship so I was very much a second ‘mum’, in another different relationship of a few years he barely saw his kids so I remained quite hands off. Now I am remarried to my DH we have a mixture of full custody and 40/50 visits with the rest, I’m very involved. Everyone is treated the same. One thing that’s never changed is they never call me mum. Why would they? They have a mum.

My only experience is that my teenage GS has a stepmum so apologies if I've got this all wrong!

I don't think you should expect your ex's partner to provide child care when he's not there and, tbh, there have been plenty of threads on here from 'her' POV where the MN response is 'You poor thing! It's his responsibility to entertain/look after his son not yours! You crack on and get yer nails done' or similar.

As to the boxroom - if they have their own baby he could well be relegated to an air bed in the corner.

How does your son feel about the set up and what happens when he's there, is he happy with the way things are? I think spending quality time with his dad is the most important factor here and as to holidays - GS has 2 half siblings and their parents take them abroad every summer but he's never been invited in 11 years so perhaps don't hold your breath.

I really don't know her as I have never been allowed to officially meet sounds very formal to me. Just let it happen naturally. If it doesn't then you don't need to meet her.

Now moving forward 2 years, I feel she doesn't see him as family, and more an inconvenience at times how do you know she feels this? Personally I see my DSC as family but not the same as my own child. They have their own status and I respect them.

You and Dad should absolutely not be expecting her to do childcare. Your child is not her responsibility. So if you or he are trying to suggest she does she might react badly to this.

They've been at least a dozen holidays, mainly short breaks and not once took my son. why do you even know this? Presumably its not on dad's contact time? If she's paying I don't see what is wrong with that. If Dad is paying but never taking his child on holiday then he's a bit of a dick but it's his choice not to have a seperate holiday with his child.

Theyre In a 3 bedroom house and my son has the smallest room, basically a box, and they have a huge spare one for storage nothing wrong with the box room as long as it is kitted out appropriately. If it bothers dad then he can say something.

So basically I think most the issues are dad's here not hers.

It takes time to build a relationship, how often does dad have your son?

OP - are you saying that your ex picks and chooses when he has his son?
That he only has him when free, if his DP is working son is left with you?

Do you have a formal arrangement or pattern? How often does he have DS?

Maybe I’m wrong but the problem sounds like ex sees DS as an optional extra only if DP isn’t about.

That’s on him.

@BananaBlue that's how I was reading it to. If that is the case it needs to change to a fixed pattern

I have always thought that if DP isn't spending quality one on one time with their child it's completely on them. As a SM you can go bananas at dad but all that will get you is someone saying "that's not your place"

The thing is about being a step mum, if you cross a line it's very easy for people to say oh your overstepping so many tend to treat SC with kindness but not as a "mum" in respect to their mum and the children. That can come off as cold but really it's just being respectful.

The bar is so much higher for a SM than it is a SD. Women often placed in the child caring role, for instance on contact time it should be for DH to look after his child not for SM because frankly the child isn't there to see the SM. That's what's best for the child and likely what the child wants.

I openly say to my DSD that I know she likes me but I realise that she wants and needs to spend time with her dad and that I am a "side" but dad is the "main course" and I will always make sure she gets one on one time with him.

She also gets one on one time with me but that's due to a shared hobby we do together and is at DSD request.

Difficult balance to keep. We are hitting teenage years and she's openly said she prefers spending time with me to dad but that's because hormones ect and I'm fairly girly and dads very much not.

The holiday thing might be because your ex has said you wouldn't get DC go on holiday, you can't assume the driving force behind DSC not being taken is the SM. Even if it is ultimately it's your ex's responsibility to not allow this , same as box room. If he's allowing it, he's basically saying he's happy with it. He's the parent and honestly I'm so sick of men being cowards and blaming their OH because it's easier for them to take ownership of their own actions.

All I can say as a SM it's really hard to hit that balance of respectful and caring without either being told to back off or being told your not involved enough. Any issues with the arrangement place it at DP door, he created your DC, he's the parent and has all the legal teeth no SP has. He's responsible.

I say this as a mum with a DD who has a wonderful SM who operates much like yours and a fairly crap ex. I wouldn't expect SM to do childcare, my DD is there to see him.

I think your initial question is quite seperate from your actual situation. There is no right or wrong on how involved it is appropriate for a step parent to be - it can range from not at all to pseudo parent, the important thing is that it is in line with what all the parties involved want, ie the step parent themselves, the child, and the parent.

But in terms of your specific situation, it sounds like your ex is the one at fault. He should be agreeing to a set contact pattern (some flexibility is good but not things being this up in the air). I'm slightly confused by the wording of your post in the section about when he has him, but if you're suggesting she should be doing childcare without him then no that isn't right. It's his responsibility.

The box room thing isn't a problem in my opinion. For reference, my own DD (who certainly isn't an inconvenience) is in a box room while the big second bedroom is used by DSS, but also very much used for storage. This is just real life for lots of families, it can be hard to fit all your stuff in.

Overall, if you don't feel your son is being treated badly when he's there, then your main problem is their dad's flakiness when it comes to contact.

I'm a stepdad to two girls (11 & 7) and we also have a 3 year old together. Their dad only has them every other weekend for two nights but he's dependable for that (and also comes to any events they have etc.) I've been there since they were 2 & 6 and he struggled with parenting small kids but does better now they're older. He has admitted as such himself.

I have to be invested in their day to day life. I have to take on a parenting roll. the 11 year old is currently being assessed for ADHD, dyscalculia and possibly more and is struggling massively. She takes a lot of our time, especially her mums'. The 3 year old takes a lot of our time because she is 3.
Whenever their mum is having to give a lot of one to one time to the oldest one I'm entertaining the two smaller girls (who thankfully have a wonderful relationship.)

How could I possibly let the 7 year old feel 'less' than my own daughter when a good deal of the time it's the three of us? She doesn't remember me ever not being there, so acting less than fatherly would, I think, be incredibly destructive for her.
(I should add at this point that the older girls symptoms hadn't begun to present at the time her mum got pregnant with our joint daughter, otherwise we wouldn't have added a third.)

I do try and be respectful of their dad's feelings, and want to acknowledge boundaries, but not at the expense of the kids' wellbeing.

But if her dad had her half the time, or if there wasn't little sister to compare treatment to, maybe it would be different? So I guess sometimes it's a little circumstantial?

The dad, for his part, has had a string of small relationships that he has kept the girls away from. The only woman he introduced them to was introduced as a friend. she had two similar aged kids and the girls adored her. But he was quite careful not to make the girls think it was becoming a 'new family' situation. For all his flaws as a boyfriend, and his numerous personal challenges, he absolutely aces this aspect of it.

There is no one answer. My parent separated and remarried.

My mums husband although lived with us had nothing to do with me in a parenting role. He just lived in the house.

My father remarried. And she is a lovely kind women. She also had no involvement with me other than being my dads wife. We visited infrequently but were loved and looked after as children when we were there

My mother parented and brought me up.

My children's father previous girlfriend naively took on a mothering role with the children on the Infrequent time they were with their father. She was the one who cooked. Brushed their hair etc. I'm sure they both valued her as a kind adult in their lives.

His current gf also I hope is a kind adult in their lives.

But I'm the one doing the parenting role. Everything a school related. Activities sick days appointments shoe buying etc you get the picture.

So when the children said in the first instance is she my step mum? I said that as they weren't married she wasn't. But also as 90% of the time they are with me. It is more a 'kind adult relationship' in their lives like an aunt and to have that is a good thing.

For those who have more involvement in the children's lives then yes a bigger commitment is expected but not a requirement. Each to there own.

I think the appropriate level of involvement is on that the step parent and the step child feel comfortable with. It isn't really any of the ex's business as long as their child is well cared for and happy.

I am a bit confused with you post. You stated

When I initially split with his dad i was worried he would find a new partner my son would call her mum and forget about me, so I expressed my feelings and we agreed that we were his only mum and dad so wouldn't use these terms with a step parent and etc.

But now this is a problem

Now moving forward 2 years, I feel she doesn't see him as family, and more an inconvenience at times. His dad takes him when she works but if she's off they always have plans, when his dad works weekends he can't keep him even though she's about in the morning, I even offered to pick up as soon as he woke up but the declined.

It feels like the step mum can't win and you would have a problem no matter how involved she was.

Also sorry just another note. The only thing you should expect is that they are kind to your son and he is looked after when he is there. Beyond that you have no influence over the situation at his fathers end.

It is on your ex how involved he is and how he priorities ds.

All you can do is manage your situation around your sons needs.

I think you need to have a hard think about what you really want. On the one hand you were panicking about another woman being ‘mum’ but now you’re worried she doesn’t see him as family, doesn’t look after him when dad isn’t available, doesn’t take him along on her holidays (we don’t know who is paying for these holidays / the home either, it’s not a god given right that her boyfriends son has the bigger bedroom if he’s only there EOWE - but he SHOULD have a comfortable space of his own with everything he needs & hopefully that’s been provided). I don’t think she can win, but if you have a clear idea of what your boundaries are then she can hopefully meet you in the middle with her own boundaries.
Regardless of what your ex might like, it might be an idea to arrange an informal chat with the new partner perhaps over coffee if you can & if she’s open to it. It rang a few bells for me that ex doesn’t want you meeting & doesn’t even want you doing a pickup from his house without him there (as you’d mentioned offering to collect son as soon as he wakes up when dad is at work). I’m not saying it’s your divine right as mother to have a relationship with his new partner but it seems a bit over the top to ban you from meeting her. Was there any conflict with his ex partners / or between him & any new relationships you’ve had?
I’m married to a man with 2, and I made a point of meeting mum before I looked after the kids without dad being there when she wanted to go on holiday & he couldn’t get leave from work, I just felt she would have less to worry about & focus on a relaxing holiday if she’d at least met me first.

Regardless of what your ex might like, it might be an idea to arrange an informal chat with the new partner perhaps over coffee if you can & if she’s open to it. It rang a few bells for me that ex doesn’t want you meeting & doesn’t even want you doing a pickup from his house without him there (as you’d mentioned offering to collect son as soon as he wakes up when dad is at work). I’m not saying it’s your divine right as mother to have a relationship with his new partner but it seems a bit over the top to ban you from meeting her. Was there any conflict with his ex partners / or between him & any new relationships you’ve had?

I don't think there's anything to suggest that's coming from him rather than her, is there? I wouldn't meet my DSSs mum.

It rang a few bells for me that ex doesn’t want you meeting & doesn’t even want you doing a pickup from his house without him there (as you’d mentioned offering to collect son as soon as he wakes up when dad is at work I took this to mean she's not going to look after OP's child for them when dad has to work. Which is a fair enough boundary to have. There is no reason for OP to be having to pick up her child from anyone other than dad.

I'm confused as to why you feel she doesn't view him as family, but also posts pictures on social media of them in family matching PJs. What has she done that makes you think she sees him as an inconvenience?

I can completely understand how this is a fraught situation to be in, and insecurities come up, but don't assume things unless you have an actual reason to assume them. I don't take my stepson on holiday and I love the boy as if he were my own.

Also, I would really, strongly recommend not following her on social media. Even if everyone involved gets on really well, it often only leads to problems.

There is no way I'd agree to a coffee with dsds ex to discuss my level of involvement. It would feel like she was trying to control my interactions with the children.

I think as long as your dp is spending quality time with your son and your son is not complaining about this woman then those are huge positives. Sure you’d want everything to be just perfect but I guess it could be a lot worse.