Is it ever a good idea to get involved in arguments between your DP and their ex?

[scooterbear]

DP has an awful relationship with his ex wife. There are of course two sides to every story and I'm sure he hasn't been perfect in his behaviours but she has truly been terrible towards him-making false allegations, accusing him of child abuse, ( because they hadnt had breakfast one morning when he dropped them back to her-she had demanded them be returned at 8.30am and they hadn't wanted to eat anything before leaving our house), bad mouthing him to the children and all their mutual acquaintances, refusing to let the kids attend an important family party etc etc. My best advice to DP during this has been to not engage. Communicate with her on practicalities only. Remain polite. This worked for a time but recently his lack of engagement seems to have riled her even more. Her new partner has now taken to messaging DP basically parroting what ex wife has said and being vaguely threatening. Worse still the children have picked up on it and are stressed out and anxious.
I have never had anything but basic polite conversation with the ex. However she has recently started including me in her tirades against DP. I am wondering about trying to talk to her to try and find a way to get her to think about stopping this. They (and both her new partner and I) need to co parent more effectively for the sake of the children. And I don't think anyone's mental health can take much more of the constant aggression. It must surely be as exhausting for her as it is for us.Is it ever a good idea to attempt this sort of communication or is it better to just leave it?

I think your advice to your DP has been spot on so far, and I think the only thing you can do now is support him to continue with it.

I don't see how your getting directly involved would help in any aspect. Much better to help him remain calm, to not rise to rudeness or ranting, and stay focussed on communicating only what needs to be said for the wellbeing of the DC.

Also make sure you are doing all you can to insulate the DC from this, which means never commenting, other than to say that there's nothing for them to be concerned about and their DDad will sort it out as best he can

What exactly does she say about your DP? Is there a common/consistent theme to her complaints?

What is the communication? Phonecalls? Emails? Texts?

Block everything, bar email. Send an email, keep it very polite and concise, that all communication is to be in written form, and no contact is to be made unless it directly involved child contact arrangements. There is no need for any other communication.

He should block her new partner immediately. And tell his ex he wants to go to mediation to agree on how to parallel parent amicably and with minimal interaction. They obviously cannot co-parent.

Drawing their partners in to this won’t help anyone.

Your husband should block her partner and you should block his ex.

There's really nothing to be gained by wading in yourself, it'll only cause more arguments.

My DP has a pretty crap relationship with his ex. She is quite high conflict and will swear at him on the doorstep at pick up and drop off for no reason. I stay well out of it! I support DP and discuss strategies/listen to him rant, but I have no direct contact with his ex at all.

@BurntToastAgain Agree 100%!

OP @MollysDolly advice about only communicating by email is sound. As long as he waits a few hours before sending every reply to her so he doesn't write something rude/that could be interpreted as harassing her.

The advice about going to mediation is also a good one. However the reasons for doing it need to be worded carefully using the words "parallel parenting" will get her back up if she is abusive as she clearly has little insight into her behaviour.

Also as they can't be civil to one another suggest to your partner to do shuttle mediation so they aren't in the same room. If the mediator at any point suggests that they should be in the same room together because it is "easier" your partner should refuse and say "No".

@RedWingBoots

OP *@MollysDolly* advice about only communicating by email is sound. As long as he waits a few hours before sending every reply to her so he doesn't write something rude/that could be interpreted as harassing her.

The advice about going to mediation is also a good one. However the reasons for doing it need to be worded carefully using the words "parallel parenting" will get her back up if she is abusive as she clearly has little insight into her behaviour.

Also as they can't be civil to one another suggest to your partner to do shuttle mediation so they aren't in the same room. If the mediator at any point suggests that they should be in the same room together because it is "easier" your partner should refuse and say "No".

Definitely shuttle mediation if they can’t talk productively.

I think he should just tell her they need mediation to agree things. But to tell the mediator that he needs to agree on how to parallel parent with her since co-parenting is not an option.

Usually email. The odd text message. He suggested they used a co parenting app (two houses) for communication-to make it even more contained. She refused.

What does she say? That he has put them through 3 years of hell ( because he wanted the kids EOW and three more overnights a fortnight and they ended up in court for him to get that-prior to that she has agreed to EOW only and no contact or phone calls in between) That he has been unreasonable financially. That it was his fault she had an affair. (She fully admits the affair) That he is aggressive and she can't be near him. That he is a bad parent. That he is an alcoholic ( he isn't).

She claimed to have called the police out twice as he was threatening her during their court proceedings re custody. This was proven to be totally untrue and was viewed severely by the judge.

He is a high earner and she is walking away from the marriage with 580 k equity (to his 160), 1250 child maintenance a month, and half his pension. She says he has fleeced her with this (she also works and earns above average wages-kids are school age, nothing stopping her working more). He has been paying the mortgage-1k a month on their marital home throughout this (3 years) and still is until sale of it completes next month. On the grounds that he is also paying his own rent etc and is actually a bit broke on a monthly basis as a result, he told her in august that he would be stopping paying for her sky Tv and broadband in October. She didn't sort anything out for herself and so was left without broadband for 8 days. She told school he had thus prevented the kids from being able to home school and this was child abuse.

This week she accused him of shouting at her during drop off. I was actually there, but in the back of the car which has tinted windows so she didn't see me. He literally just said 'hi, how are you? Gave dc 1 some cal pol this morning as he was a bit hot". No issue. Her boyfriend messaged DP later to say 'he couldn't have her upset by this level of constant aggression and it has to stop' etc etc.

Like I said I'm sure he's not always been perfect-there are usually three sides to the end of any marriage-his,hers and the truth somewhere in the middle- but she literally just makes things up. It's constant. And bizarre.

I know really it's a bad idea to even attempt to engage with her but it's so exhausting always being on egg shells due what she will do next and I am really concerned for the kids in the middle.

@BurntToastAgain

He should block her new partner immediately. And tell his ex he wants to go to mediation to agree on how to parallel parent amicably and with minimal interaction. They obviously cannot co-parent.

Drawing their partners in to this won’t help anyone.

I second this. The four of you absolutely don’t need to coparent together. That’s a non-starter. Cut yourself out, ignore anything she says about you. If he’s passing stuff on that’s causing you stress tell him you don’t want to hear it. No reason at all he should entertain interference from her new bloke.

These kids have two parents who need to work things out between themselves. Either you or her new man could walk away tomorrow and have no right to see the kids again. Don’t get involved. You’ll be causing yourself stress you don’t need.

It’s shit for the kids but what can you do? Your partner and his ex chose to bring children into the world together and now they have to cope as best they can after splitting up. By getting involved you’re confusing things further - even though your intentions are obviously good - and you’re taking on responsibility that’s not yours to shoulder.

Limit the impact on your life by asking for info on a strictly need to know basis. Depending on the DC’s ages you’ve got many years of this ahead of you. If you think you can tolerate it find ways to limit how it affects yourself and your household.

Two parents. There are only two parents and it’s their job to work things through.

They went to mediation. She refused to attend after the first session as she said the mediator was too much on his side.

X post with your update.

It looks like be trying to be reasonable he’s been a mug. Poor boundaries in the past and him bending over backwards to appease her bullying have helped the situation get this bad.

He needs to do some work on himself to regain some perspective.

It’s very sad the ways the DC are being hurt by this but there’s nothing you can do to stop her behaving this way and you’ll burn yourself out if you try and fix it.

Are you absolutely sure this is the life you want for yourself?

@scooterbear she sounds like a mumsnetter to me. They are always on here trying to find ways for the dad to have as little contact as possible. Dunno why. Im team 50/50 all the way. Its funny because my friends and family think im bitter against men but its an another level on here.

I think you should get as much evidence of her behaviour in writing. Only communicate via text/ email. Also you should stary fiming handovers. You can sit in the car and film since she cant see you. Then you can go to court to make her stop?

@AnneLovesGilbert

Are you absolutely sure this is the life you want for yourself?

As hard as this is to hear, this is probably the key question here.

You can’t change the way his ex is or the toxic relationship between them. All you will ever be able to do is put boundaries and measures in place to try to protect yourself from it.

Realistically, how able are you to do this when you love your partner and this causes him upset too? There will be a level of stress involved in this that you just can’t eliminate.

Is this the life you want?

I know this is going to be an extremely difficult path-I'm under now illusions about that. It's just all so unnecessary isn't it? My own divorce was largely amicable though we had our moments-and we never out the kids in the middle-so this has all gone as a bit of a shock to me. I was a bit naive.

The way she has been described to me by him (of course) but also by people that knew they when they were married is that she was a huge bully. It stresses him to try and stand up to her and his reactions to her are for sure a learned behaviour that he needs to unlearn a bit

I am very much a 50/50 pop parent too. She very much isn't. Her argument for stopping him having contact is mainly 'I'm their mum' which ignores the fact that he's their dad and to me that's equally important

Has he (is he) having counselling to learn to stand up to her and put boundaries in place?

Thing is, this is his issue to solve. And he needs to protect you (and your children) from it.

Of course you couldn’t possibly have anticipated this in advance. You did what everyone would and worked on the assumption that the man you are having a relationship chose to marry someone vaguely reasonable (even if it didn’t work out).

It sounds very difficult. It really isn’t uncaring or callous to draw clear boundaries and tell your partner that he needs to deal with the fall out from his previous choices in a way that doesn’t negatively affect your life.

He has had counselling. I'm encouraging him to get some more.

That’s probably a very good idea.

@scooterbear I could have written this word for word,

What’s done is done in terms of your DP and his slack boundaries with the ex, I’m assuming due to guilt. All you can do is move forwards. If you’re happy with the choices you’ve made, stand firm. Set your own boundaries with the ex and DP. You can be supportive but don’t need to know the ins and outs of all their contact. I’ve been there and it’s not helpful. I find my DPs ex V intrusive regarding choices we make in our home and our life that do not solely affect DSCs, so I don’t engage, don’t want to know what’s being said about me, I don’t care.

DP can do one of two things, he either carries on as he is which will likely eventually create a rift between the two of you. Or change his behaviour toward the ex. Like PPs have said, don’t engage, don’t response to anything unnecessary, even before he messages her regarding DC, think about it, does she need consulting or is he talking to her because he feels an over powering need to run all his parenting choices by her?

Lastly if they really can’t build a functional relationship then they will both need further input by way of mediation.

My husband’s ex is a bully. She did it to him, she did it to their friends, most of whom have now ditched her, she does it to the DC. He had counselling after they split and found it very helpful. He’s got firm, healthy, sustainable boundaries with her and my DSC are old enough that they liaise with him themselves and he has a little to do with her as possible. I’ve never had anything to do with her, we’ve never officially met, not swapped numbers, I don’t get involved with anything to do with her, it couldn’t interest me less and DH can handle her by himself. They go way back, he knows how best to do damage limitation and these days he just tries to support the DC in their dealings with her.

He needs more support, from professionals. You can only do so much and it’s not your responsibility to take on things that will stress or hurt you. Protect yourself, no one else will, and leave it to him to protect his kids however he can.

It’s natural to want to fix things, you love him and that instinct is normal and understandable. But try and resist so you don’t get bogged down in the mess.

To paraphrase AnneLovesGilbert:

My DP’s ex is a bully. She did it to him, she did it to their friends, most of whom have now ditched her, she does it to her DC.

Luckily my DP has friends, acquaintances and colleagues of a wide range of ages in and who do/have done various jobs he talks to. He's had counselling before so when his ex really started kicking off he could put in boundaries with her. She still tries to overstep them so he's learnt to respond appropriately.

It's all good advice-Thankyou all x
It is as you say very hard to see someone you love being hurt repeatedly and by someone that should have no power over him anymore. I will talk to him again this weekend about counselling again as we can't carry on living in fear of his phone binging snd whatever nonsense she will come up with next

You even have to ask??

Stick with what you've been doing so far.

Here’s the thing as you say. No one knows the history of what has gone on between them. To some degree it is irrelevant. Because based on my experience. When there is this level of sustained conflict between two exes there are two clear things to be aware of:

1. it very rarely stops (in actual fact it can increase and it sounds as though the partner is adding fuel to the fire)
2. the children will have real emotional issues as a result of this level of conflict. Especially when they hit teen years.

I would think long and hard as to whether this is the life you want. This stuff doesn’t necessarily settle/ get easier as kids get older. Conflict can continue about where the children want to live, uni fees, graduations, weddings. This will impact you and your DC for the rest of your lives.

Categorically do not get involved. You will add fuel to the fire too. If the ex is high conflict, she will feed off the fact that more people are being pulled in. Block her, block the new partner.

The person who needs to handle this, boundary communications and arm himself against allegations is your partner. None of this is your issue. Stay well clear. Otherwise you too will get pulled into this.