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Step-parenting

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DP's ex is threatening to take DSC to live abroad.

7 replies

mummynumber2 · 30/11/2007 20:56

Just wondering if anyone knows where we stand legally.
Here's the situation...
DP's ex is the main carer of DSC. Until a few months ago they were with us about 1/2 the time but she drastically reduced this as she worked out that she could get more money through the CSA. She also told the CSA that DP had not been contributing financially to DSC, which he always has, so we're in the process of appealing the CSA's decision on payments and arrears as well as going to court so that we can continue to see DSC as much as we used to.
DP's ex recently told him that if he presists with the appeal etc. she will take DSC and move abroad to her native country. I'm absolutely terrified that she will just up and go, she's quite an unstable, irrational person. It really isn't in DSC's best interest to do this for so many reasons. She's taking them abroad this weekend but insists that they will be back on Monday. I feel sick just thinking about it. What can we do if she doesn't bring them back?

OP posts:
wildfish · 30/11/2007 22:24

You can try and get a prohibitive court order, where the ex cannot legally remove DSC from the country. This also involves surrendering the passports.

Supposedly she cannot just up and move without your DPs agreement, and since there is a threat to remove them, and family is abroad, you should be able to prohibit any removal from the country.

ElenorRigby · 03/12/2007 19:37

Wildfish is right, you need to get to court and get a prohibitive steps order issued ASAP

yerblurt · 03/12/2007 20:22

... sounds like a totally horrendous situation quite frankly. a bit like emotional blackmail quite frankly which is what it is.

Having been recently through the lottery that is the family court system to ensure that my daughter was enabled to continue having a loving strong relationship with her dad, despite all the crap the ex tried (emotional blackmail, reducing contact, applying for sole res order, coaching the child etc), I know have a shared residence order and daughter is much better off for it.

anyway, to your situation.

You had a shared parenting schedule which was unilaterally changed by DP's ex. This presumably was not mutually agreed.

You suspect the DP's ex's motives are financial (they usually are) - as there is a direct link between CSA and overnight stays. The more o/n stays, the less dosh the ex gets... if this is her motive then that is obviously 'not in the child's best interests' to paraphrase legally.

For the CSA issue I would highly recommend joining NACSA, they cost £40 per year (I'm a member btw), they have the best source of advice and support for all things CSA related. If you are paying the "current going rate" for CSA contributions using the CSA online calculator then that should be it. NACSA will do an assessment for you, they have the up to date legal advice for assessments and tribunals and will also represent you should you need this.

Do you have any evidence (i.e. voice recordings/independent witness) to the ex saying she will move the child to another country?

Which country is the ex's 'native' country - some countries are Hague convention signatories, but this means little realistically if the child is removed from jurisdiction.

  • Does DP have parental responsibility(i.e. was DP married to ex, was the child born after 1st dec 2003 and is named on the birth certficiate).
  • If your DP has PR then nobody can take the child out of england or wales without the permission of everyone with PR. That is the law.
  • If there is a residence order in place (and that includes a shared residence order) made by the court , then anyone can take the child abroad for no more than 28 days without permission, but it's common courtesy to inform the other parent of the arrangements.
  • If you have a real fear of the child being removed from jurisdiction, then I would advise IMMEDIATELY to apply for a Prohibitive Steps Order.

You can do this yourself, you do not need a solicitor - but if you have one then do it immediately. You can alternatively fill in the forms yourself and file papers at court. You will need a C1 form (available from the hmcourts website).
form here:
www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/c1_1205.pdf

  • fill in the details
  • Q13 is the real important one, you are applying for a Prohibitive Steps Order as the ex has verbally indicated that she will remove the child from jurisdiction to her native country of XXX. She has said this in response to your request for an appeal for CSA calculations.

You will need to fill in 1 copy, make 2 more copies (1 for the court, 1 for you, 1 for the ex) and file them with the local County Court (are you and the DPs ex nearby or do you live far away?). The fee for a C1 is £175 (are you eligible for legal aid btw?). Beware that courts don't take cards so it's best to pay in cash! The ex will be served with the papers ASAP (or her solicitor will if she has one), and as it's a PSO application as there is a danger of of abduction then the case will be heard very quickly.

At the same time you should consider if you want to get this formally sorted by way of a court order.
You should probably be applying for a Shared Residence Order.

I would highly recommend joining Families Need Fathers, they are the best source of practical advice and support for people like your DPs situation (I'm a FNF branch volunteer now, running a local branch and helping out parents in similar circumstances to you guys). Feel free to PM me or we can chat off forum if you need some more advice.

It may be worthwhile in the medium to long term also thinking about proposing to the DPs ex to attend Family Mediation. It may or may not be successful, but if you can keep it our of court the better - I think on the basis of the ex's behaviour she feels as though she is the dominant parent and what she says goes. The courts are a lottery though and there is no guarantee but you have to do the best you can.

keep strong

mummynumber2 · 12/12/2007 21:25

Thanks Yerblurt so much for all the advice, you've given me some info in the past and it's ll been very helpfull to me and DP. Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.
Well, the situation is that she has not dissapeared with DSC and actually it seems that it was all threats. Anyway, we're going to have to go to court. DP tried to organise mediation but she refused to go.
I don't want to go into too much detail but some very serious/ dangerous things have happened while DSC have been in her care recently and it seems that DP has no choice but to attempt to become DSC's main carer. I know your views on solicitors but I think we're going to need one for this. From what I have heard it is going to be very difficult but there is no way we can sit back and watch this situation.

OP posts:
yerblurt · 14/12/2007 13:59

Sorry to hear how things are going, but realistically the situation would probably come to a head one way or the other

Well you are doing the right thing anyway by being pro-active.

If the ex has threatened to remove the child from jurisdication/their habitual residence - then this should be mentioned as domestic violence (which it is), you could always fill in a C1A which is a supplementary form to the C1 and state that you are seeking a Prohibitive Steps Order as the ex has on numerous occassions verbally indicated that she would remove the child from jurisdiction.

Still I would recommend you go along to a local FNF branch to at least get some advice, feel free to contact me if you need any other help/advice - and keep us up to date with your situation yeah?

keep strong

Emprexia · 01/01/2008 16:07

My DH's ex is from Dublin, we only found out by accident that she and new Husband were moving back to Ireland with my step-daughter. There was never any court involvement with her care after the divorce, nor CSA agreement.

we didn't have chance to do anything to stop them in time and DSD now lives in Dublin, we only get to see her once or twice a year.

yerblurt · 03/01/2008 16:49

that's a real shame

... it's a pity you didn't manage to do something before or just after the move and get the court action moving pronto, you could have applied for a prohibitive steps order, immediate return of the child to their habitual residence (south ireland is a separate jurisdiction) and started children act proceedings straight away.

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