Older DSDs hard to engage and judgemental

[CJBear]

I have been with my DP around 18 months. Don’t live together. He has two DDs, 18 and 21. Haven’t spent masses of time with them and tbh find them both difficult to engage. Both quite aloof, entitled, manners lacking, direct to the point of being blunt. Not just with me but I seem to notice it more as myself and my own DD are so open and talk about everything. They are very clever but lack empathy. I make a big effort but get very little back- I don’t think the younger one has ever asked me a question, made the first effort to start a conversation. My own DD finds them difficult too and she gets on with everybody. Younger one has twice repeated something I’ve said as it wasn’t “grammatically correct” and it’s obvious she doesn’t like my slightly less posh voice. Sounds pathetic but she actually makes me feel pretty inadequate with her manner and it’s quite clear she only tolerates me. I’ve genuinely been open, kind, interested etc and, having worked with young people all my life, never had such a hard time connecting.
My DP has been separated from their mum for over 4 years and is now divorced. She’s moved on and is living with new partner who I believe the DDs don’t like either.
DP asked me to go on holiday with them all and other members of his family. I agreed but decided to arrive a few days later as I wanted to make sure he had some alone time with his two before I arrived. Was there for six nights. They were ok, much the same, sometimes ok, sometimes verging on rude and dismissive. I tried my best but was getting little back. Not sure my DP noticed.
Things came to head on the last night when, out the blue, the older one had a meltdown and was saying things weren’t the same and basically they her dad was different when I was there (I believe he’s happier than he was before he met me) This wasn’t done in front of me but my partner reported back and he was very anxious about it all. I made all the right noises about change being difficult etc but it was hard and I felt pretty upset. However, I kept a face on and didn’t make a fuss.
I took the initiative the day we got back and sent them both a text. Basically said I knew it would have felt a bit different with me there and I appreciated them making an effort. Said I’d see them soon etc. No reply from either. Not even a thumbs up or something bland.
The holiday thing has obviously brought this to a head although I have been feeling like this for a while. It’s hard to put my finger on but I find I can’t relax/be myself in their company as I’m constantly being observed/judged. I am loathe to bring up specific examples with DP as it’s not my place to criticise his children and nor do I know them well enough to have cross words but it’s making me have doubts about the future. I don’t particularly want to be part of a set up where I’m walking on eggshells or putting up with rude behaviour. I think it’s probably not entirely personal but in a way that’s worse- if this is the kind of young adults they are I can’t see it resolving itself.
Any thoughts very much appreciated. I love my DP very much and it’s unlikely I’ll ever have to spend huge amounts of time with them but obviously if we decided to live together this would be problem.

I would say that you'll Find it very difficult to change things going forward, you don't need to be in his children's lives as they are grown up but it sounds as though the tension will always be there. If they're rude and he's completely unaware then he as their dad has had a big part in bringing them up that way. The meltdown on holiday sounds very odd for a young adult. You sound very understanding but I don't think this will get any easier if your partner can't see the problem or isn't willing to help.

OP - I think you give them space and let them figure it out. Like you say seeing them at this age is not going to be regular as they evolve into adults.

No excuse for rudeness, I said to my DCS ( much younger) that all they had to do was be polite, Please and thank you and no back chat. They did not have to respect her but they did have to be polite. They were to give her no excuse for criticism.

I think they probably feel left out - Mum and Dad split 14 and 17. Mum has moved on, Dad has moved on and they have nothing the same and are not yet in a position financially, maturity wise etc to see their lives going forward. They sound unsettled and unsure of their place in "their" new family. Default position - criticise and be defensive.

Give them time and space - they will either realise Dad is still there for them or go off and be vile adults.

Manners are not negotiable in my view. If they can't be nice then don't speak.

Thanks, both.
@bogoffmda wise words. I do think their works has been rocked and I’m not sure either parent has invested much time in the emotional fallout. But you’re right- no rudeness. If she starts correcting my grammar again I will def say something as I’m nice/easy-going but have no interest in being a complete mug!

Do they still live with their mum?

I think things will inevitably change when they have their own homes and partners, but that could take years yet.

I think I'd just avoid being with them. Let them spend time on their own with their dad and just stay at your own home then. I'm sorry, they just sound distressed by everything.

Sort of @HollowTalk. Younger one there most of the time, older one at uni. I’m honestly trying to empathise, I guess I’m just not used to finding it so hard to connect. I’m not/never going to be taking on a parental role, just would be nice for us all to feel relaxed. I’ll always honour their past but I can’t bring it back. I do wonder if now their dad has met someone it’s the realisation that there is no way back (not that there ever was and all this unfolded long before I came along)

Just enjoy your relationship with your DP and don't try too much to be their mate. There is nothing you can do. Don't break your neck or your heart trying . To make it right for them you need to not exist and for their parents to still be married.

That's just not reality. .. but it's for them to get their heads around and that will only happen when they grow up and recognise reality.

I was your step daughter. It took me about 4 years to stop being a selfish , self absorbed arse.

My mum and stepdad have just celebrated 40 years. We ALL love them very much.

Thanks @Finknottlesnewt. That’s a happy ending!

I’d say your halfway lucky that they’re the age they are. They’re grownups/almost grownups, so you don’t really need to see much of them. If I was you I’d hold them at arms length and not try to play happy families too much - they sound rude and I couldn’t be bothered with having my grammar corrected. It’s a snotty thing to do.

In the next few years you’re likely to see less and less of them as they move on with their own adult lives.

If they are not happy at Mums and you are now at Dads - where is their home, where they feel safe, confortable and can relax. The need to be on your best behaviour and not really fit in either home at this age is going to be hard.

They are ready to fly the nest but with the security of "coming home" if problems. But they have no "real home" anymore.

OP, these young people probably went through a difficult time with the divorce ,and then they probably adjusted to a new reality that meant a unit that included just them and dad. Now they are being expected to make yet another adjustment that means a unit that has expanded from just them and dad to perhaps now include you.

A young college/university student may have a love life of her own. She probably does not involve her father in her love life and at this early stage may resent his involving her (and by extension her sister) in his love life.

He may even have said to them that he has so immediate plans to live with or marry you, and given that ,they may resent his bringing you to events that they think of as family events.

In your place, I would step completely back until or if there is a decision to make this a permanent relationship. At this point, it should be easy enough to see each other without involving any if your children.

You say that the older daughter is judgemental ,but describing someone with whom you have not spent much time as aloof, entitled, and lacking empathy seems to me to be pretty judgemental as well.

Maybe you will all have different opinions of each other with the passing of time.

I agree that rudeness is never acceptable under any circumstances, but I do think that your partner may be trying too hard to involve his daughters in aspects of his love life that they feel need not involve them.

These young women may be past the age where they are interested in any time of blending or engagement. To them you may be dad's girlfriend but nothing more. That is a perfectly acceptable status. You should view them as the children of the man that you are dating and nothing more. If a positive relationship is to happen, it will likely need much more time to evolve.

• Both quite aloof, entitled, manners lacking, direct to the point of being blunt.
• clever but lack empathy
• pedantic ("Younger one has twice repeated something I’ve said as it wasn’t “grammatically correct”)
• never had such a hard time connecting
• No reply from either.
• meltdown

I think you might be looking at girl/s with borderline autism here. If so, they grow up slower than you'd expect and can struggle more with change (adult having a meltdown).

At their age I would just stop trying so hard and let them exiting full time company with your DP pass by you entering it like ships in the night. They're not meeting you half way at all and they're basically adults. You don't have to put in loads of effort to force a relationship with them.

I refuse to be in the same room as my 20 year old DSD so don't give yourself a hard time, if only I knew then what I knew now!

So many factors that you have no influence over in all of this, the past before you arrived, the discussions that the DSD's will have had out of your earshot (and this age group is just bitchy by nature). The influence of their friends etc. I'd stop worrying about it if I were you. Trust me, you could buy them diamonds and still be in the wrong by the sounds of it.

I am wondering if they are thinking that because you don't live with their dad, they may not see it as a permanent relationship and that you could separate just like their mum and dad did, I'm not saying that you will, but a young 18 and 21 year old may see it differently. This is a real toughie, because it seems that you cannot do right for doing wrong. What is the mum saying to the youngest, is she supportive of you both or is she brain washing? Whatever the reason, it is so sad that you are trying so hard, sending a lovely text only to be ignored. Did your DP comment on why they didn't?

Your dp really shouldn’t have passed on that conversation to you. They probably felt really upset receiving your text. I think he’s made a massive mistake there. Ruined their trust in him and probably sabotaged any chance of an easy relationship between you and them.

It's best to not engage with them beyond hello or hi and I wouldn't be going on holidays with the again.

With living separately, you really don't have to see them ...unless any events you'd all be at.

What is your DP actually doing to support these young women with this adjustment?

Seems the holiday was too much too soon.

Thanks all. Very helpful. I agree holiday was not the best idea - hindsight is a wonderful thing. Seems the idea to step back/keep a distance/let things develop (or not) is probably the best strategy.

At 18 and 21 they need to grow up. Their parents have been divorced and have moved on for a while now. Ypu shouldn't need to change anything about yourself to be accepted, that being said maybe it was too soon for you to go on a big family holiday with them. For now I would step back and not see your partner when they are around. If they want one on one time with their dad let them have that. However he needs to speak up and day that you are a permanent fixture in his life, that he is happy and this is an area of his life where they don't get to have an opinion or be disrespectful towards you. As much as he is their dad they don't own him, he has a right to a life and happiness outside of them.

Good advice from @bogoffmda op.
I had similar with my exdp's dc. Just could not connect with them & like you I work with young people & general get on great with children & young adults. Exdp was very bad at calling out behaviours so I left them to it. He saw them alone & that suited everyone except exdp just fine.