Relatively early days - worries and concerns - incompatible parenting?

[UncertainUnsure]

To be honest not sure if this is best placed in relationships or here - but I suppose my issue is largely with regards to the future premise of full time step-parenting so I've gone for here for now.

So me and my DP have known each other for about 3 years, had some initial dating which ended, then 6 months together which ended in the middle of the first lockdown and now rekindled at the start of this year. DP has two children full time (will refer to them as SC for ease) - DSD age 7 and DSS age 4. I have one DS age 6 who I see every other weekend + more in school holidays.

In terms of contact, I met the SC for a few hours and a handful of times in our previous stint, but this time have had regular contact for approx 6 months - over after work a couple evenings a week and staying over a couple weekends a month. My DS has started to meet them the last couple months - so far just a few playdates at our houses or at parks and 1 day out all together.

I suppose my main concerns are:

1. Whilst DSD 7 understands I'm not her dad (bio dad out of life for last 4 years although recent low level contact has started) but understands I can have that type of role as a stepdad (and can understand this as her grandad is actually her DPs stepdad), DP has not explained situation to DSS 4 who, through seeing my DS call me it, now sometimes calls me dad and when asked considers me their dad for all intents and purposes. I expressed some discomfort with this happening so soon and the timing with some contact with bio dad beginning. I feel the situation should be explained to him in an age appropriate way but DP feels you shouldn't challenge that kind of thing with kids (off the back of what someone at the contact centre dealing with their bio dads access to the kids has said to her)

2. DSS 4 has obvious signs of anger and behavioural issues - temper tantrums over anything, anger that leads to immediate hitting, kicking, spitting at both children and adults, verbal abuse, vindictive behaviour (suspicions of deliberately peeing on floor and DPs bed in response to something they don't like) and regularly extremely defiant with requests or simple rules (e.g. you can't play with that its not a toy). DP has expressed concerns but doesn't seem to have pushed much for help. Previous nursery would just send DSS home when behaviour was particularly bad and referred DP to a parenting support group where they got some advice which they believe has helped a little. Literally within seconds of searching online I found ODD, whose symptoms sound pretty much spot on - DP agrees, but just says they hope starting school will help and might be able to get help there if the school spot things - no real urge by them to push or flag it at all.

3. Combined with 2) above, more generally both DSD and DSS have near zero boundaries at home which I struggle with in comparison to my own upbringing and how I am with my DS. They take their toys wherever they want in the house and are rarely pressured to tidy up even in their own room or living room after play. Clothes, rubbish, paper, toys, random bits are dropped around everywhere and left. They seemingly have full run of the house and can touch and play and move around anything they want even if it's not theirs or not a toy. I find myself helping DP pick up after them regularly out of sympathy and am always spotting seemingly important or delicate stuff floating around and try to put it back in a safe home (e.g. letters, jewellery, perfume bottler). Again have expressed this to DP and seems very little is done about it. There is mention of having to 'choose your battles' but it seems like DP chooses very few if any at all. I have suggested ideas of more rules and boundaries and other methods (e.g. weekly meal plan with the kids to stop tantrums over dinner, reward chart for specific behaviours each day and weekly reward where one child may earn it and the other not and facilitating conversations on why they haven't received enough points) and although sometimes there is agreeance they are never put into action, and even if we start during a weekend where I'm there, the next time I'm over, its clear its gone out of the window. A kind of reward system was started but DP only ever aimed for them to both have the same points at the end of the day to avoid confrontation (which I think she does massively all the time, to pander to DSS and avoid tantrums) and it didn't have clear sections for behaviours/times of the day etc, just for example randomly give them say 2 points each for eating a decent amount of dinner so not very consistent. Anyway that was soon forgotten about after about a week. Rarely are threats followed through and its rare for big consequences to result after a day of poor behaviour - sometimes tablets or TV are banned but then I think DP struggles with that because the kids are in moods and just end up arguing and fighting over everything the next day.

4. I am now regularly called in as the 'bad cop', particularly for DSS when he is being really challenging. For example if he is refusing to brush teeth, DP claims they can't do it and needs me to hold him and do it for him - a messy and stressful job. Inconsistent use of timeouts (numerous times seen him let off with apologies he doesn't mean or just repeated threats) for DSS tantrums and violent behaviour are often delegated to me to put him there when I'm around and dealing with his punching, kicking and spitting in my face

5. My own DS (diagnosed ASD) by comparison is so much more obedient, respectful, and understands rules and expectations clearly. However I accept only have him a limited amount of time and by the accounts of his mother, I very rarely see the worst of him (meltdowns etc). My DP is really impressed by his behaviour but thinks he is the exception and that the SC are more normal than I think and its unfair to compare them and want them to have the same level of behaviour. Outside of my own childhood (where I wouldn't dream of treating the house as they do and never witnessed any friends doing similar) and my DS I don't really have an understanding of whether this really is 'normal'

All in all this is leading me to question whether I really could live with them full time in the future. A nice family life is something we have both expressed we have wanted. The SC is just too stressful for me and our parenting approaches seem too different. Even if DP compromised heavily with what I would want to do to improve DSS behaviour as well as the general around the house stuff for both SC (clear carrot and stick, consistently applied, accept it will be a really rough start for a few weeks) I can't help but feel it would fall largely on me to actually ensure the consistency and deal with the worst of DSS. It has also made me completely against the idea of any more children in the future (was leaning no but open to it previously) - as I cannot imagine the stress of a newborn on top of this - which when expressed has also caused issues in our relationship.

I suppose in hindsight, this time around we probably rushed into me being in their lives so frequently and should have kept to visits after bedtime for longer, but what's happened has happened. I was also quick to step in (and DP was okay with this) with discipline and being allowed to tell them to do/not do things etc. For now I am trying to back out a bit and take a step back and let DP do the majority of telling off and discipline unless it is something directly affecting me or really dangerous etc and trying to avoid being dragged into the 'bad cop' (e.g. trying to keep busy with washing dishes and cleaning up after dinner etc whilst DP is doing getting ready for bed with SC which includes brushing teeth) as I'm just finding its too stressful and I guess the argument in my head is it's not on me to police her parenting or their behaviour.

Not sure if this can work long term with such differences between us in parenting (never mind when it comes to housework and the mental load - which I feel she tries to shift a huge amount onto me when I'm around)

Any general advice appreciated. Its been tricky to boil this down to some specific questions but some I think could be good to get views on are:

1. Is the behaviour I describe in 3) above fairly 'normal' or do I have too high expectations or am a control freak? (examples of expectations - don't touch stuff that belongs to DP without asking, don't bring toys to the dinner table, don't bring toys into DPs room, you're not allowed to move that massive toy from your room to the living room, you have to tidy up all of this before you get that toy out next)
2. What's the best approach for a step-parent coming in - should I be getting as stuck into discipline and suggesting changes etc as I have or more hands off as I'm now trying to be? How does that transition into the time in the future (12-18 months) where we may have the opportunity to live together?
3. Anyone with experience of ODD or similar type behaviour and how best to deal with it?

Sorry.
Run.

I would get out of this OP. It's not normal behaviour from dc or dcs dm. This will do your head in absolutely in the future. Imagine never being able to escape the mess, your valuable items being thrown about and your ds picking up on their behaviours. Your parenting values just aren't in alignment.

You could keep dating if you wanted to, or be together properly but always live apart. I'm not sure if your dp would be up for that though since she's pushing the dad thing on you and the mental load. BTW she's also not respecting your boundaries in that you've said you feel uncomfortable with her ds calling you dad and hasn't stopped it and been clear with her dc who you are to her.

This all sounds like an absolute nightmare.

Re. 5) My DSD can be a model child with us then a complete fucking nightmare when she goes home to her mother. Think tantrums, hitting, eye rolling, general defiance etc.
There's a theory that many kids in this situation bring their A game for the NRP as they are less familiar and sure of them and their environment (see also: kids with glowing school reports who are horrors at home) then when they relax in their safe space, all the shit of the day gets released.
This doesn't really address your main points but thought it might be something to consider if it might apply to your son?

At Bonheurdupasse advice is correct run - you have completely incompatible parenting styles.

The big red flags for me are you:

1. shouldn't be more concerned about and trying to find out if a child of someone you are in a relationship with has a disability, than their own parent.
2. are being called "dad" by the youngest child when you have told the child's mother that you want to be called "UU" by them.

Run as fast as you can. Is there any way you can see your own son more often? If he's well-behaved and happy when he's with you but your ex has more problems with him, then why not arrange it so that he spends more time with you?

I wouldn't live with children like your gf's if they weren't my own. And if they were my own, I'd seek urgent help.

@HollowTalk

Run as fast as you can. Is there any way you can see your own son more often? If he's well-behaved and happy when he's with you but your ex has more problems with him, then why not arrange it so that he spends more time with you?

I wouldn't live with children like your gf's if they weren't my own. And if they were my own, I'd seek urgent help.

This in spades. Focus on your own child who you don’t see very much at all. I’d be a bit worried as a parent if I didn’t see the ‘real’ side of my own child. It implies the relationship isn’t as close as it might be. Don’t subject him to the behaviour of these other children on the occasions that he does spend time with you.

DSS 4 has obvious signs of anger and behavioural issues - temper tantrums over anything, anger that leads to immediate hitting, kicking, spitting at both children and adults, verbal abuse, vindictive behaviour (suspicions of deliberately peeing on floor and DPs bed in response to something they don't like) and regularly extremely defiant with requests or simple rules (e.g. you can't play with that its not a toy).

That would be it for me.

Not a chance in hell would I tolerate behaviour like that in my life when it didn't have to be there from a child I was unrelated to.

Life is too short.

Run

@StarryNight468 I do agree, the thought of say 15+ years living with them all with this kind of difference in approach (or onus on me to take charge and try and sort it out) makes me feel awful. I've thrown around the living separately idea and it was not well received, especially given how I've said I like the idea in the past (before being so involved with the kids and family dynamic) as well as changing my mind on more kids to what is currently a hard no - it's been made out that I've sold them a dream and am now taking it away.

With regards to DSS calling me dad, I expressed I wasn't sure it was great timing and it was awkward and a lot for me to take in, but DP had their view (backed up by contact centre owner) and was clear she wouldn't tell him to stop, so I felt like I've just accepted it. I don't make any comments or correct him on it, but always use my own name around DSS when talking in the third person or responding to a request IYSWIM?

@Youseethethingis fully agree with your point there and it's probably spot on, hoping to increase contact with DS over time and see more of what he is truly like.

I suppose fundamental issue is I feel I have a connection with the DSC and I think if things end I will feel massively guilty for letting them down. I've considered that I could offer potential for friendship (or at least us being amicable) in future and being there for any talks about our relationship ending and still being around in their lives once in a while to meet in the park or visit for a couple hours every couple weeks to facilitate a transition - no idea if that is actually helpful or would even be accepted by DP though. It's weird because I feel so emotionally trapped even though I know objectively they aren't my children or responsibility. It feels like maybe I'm being selfish and should just push on and try and work with DP to solve things as best as possible even if it is a substantial compromise. But they are innocent in this and will feel sad/disappointed/let down as I am the first to take this role in their lives (or what DSD can remember of hers) pretty much.

With you there to pick up the slack so to speak your dp will never change. And the dc imo will become more feral!! If dp won't address the issues which are obviously there you need to take your ds and run. Before your relationship with your own dc begins to suffer. And likely your relationship with dp along with your mh.
Save yourselves op.. It's really the only option.. And soon.

Sorry but there's no way I could live with kids like this, especially if the parent is doing nothing to address the behaviour. Step parenting is difficult enough even when you're on the same page with this stuff. If you want to continue the relationship I think you need to maintain separate houses.

Obviously we are only hearing one side of the story here but based on the long long list of things you’ve mentioned I truly think you are in completely different places and it’s not going to work out. I sympathise that you’ve clearly bonded with her children (and that’s something to learn from like you’ve said), but no one should ever stay together because of the children. Would you be happy for her to stay with you if roles were reversed, due to her feeling sorry for your son? It would cause resentment long term.
No need for the split not to be amicable but I do think it has to end. Good luck!

You sound like a lovely person. This is unlikely to make you happy, which you deserve.

You are not trained in restraining a child, you could easily accidentally cause physical harm and because you are not related to the child you could be in very serious trouble.
If anything bad like that was to happen or if the school want SS involved you risk your relationship with your own child. Put your own child first and put an end to this relationship.

Focus on your own child who you don’t see very much at all. I’d be a bit worried as a parent if I didn’t see the ‘real’ side of my own child. It implies the relationship isn’t as close as it might be.
Seriously? How is this relevant to op's post? Op didn't bring his contact with his ds to the discussion - his post isn't about that - so judgmental comments on his access arrangements with his ex are unnecessary!

@UncertainUnsure - I too would run. Your parenting styles are incompatible & your dp doesn't seem to get/understand where you're coming from & is ignoring your boundaries. If she was on board with what you are saying I'd say differently. She could be just worn out from dealing with the kids alone - I know, I've been there - but the less she disciplines the worse the behaviour will become as they get older & it's absolutely not fair to put you in the position of bad cop. That's just forcing you into a bad/grumpy/overbearing step dad role; a role you never asked for.

I think also this relationship is unlikely to work.

I am making some assumptions here, if the DSC bio dad is only recently having contact and this is through a contact centre I am guessing that there is probably some issues with this guy. So whilst their behaviour is not ok, or necessarily normal. I would say it’s ‘normal’ behaviour for children who may have had some issues/trauma and who also are not being parented 100%.

If your DP was willing to work on their parenting and listen, this situation would be different. However it sounds like they aren’t, but they are happy for you to do it.

That’s not fair or how it should be.

No the behaviour doesn't sound normal. At all.

I'm also struck though by the lack of positive parenting which I'm a big fan of - praise and encouragement for doing things right or by fixing things that have gone wrong.

I don't have a child with ODD myself but would agree with you if the behaviour looks like that, action needs taking whether that's a diagnosis or more likely at this age just agreeing a consistent plan. You've already got proof that you will be the enforcer, which is reasonable to worry about.

I think not wanting to be a parent or a dad in partnership with this person is completely reasonable and if they're already doing emotional blackmail about a possible future baby who doesn't even exist yet in a very complicated situation, they will be utter hell to divorce. And that says a lot. Women are told to see what happens when they say no to a man - actually it goes both ways.

Oh OP, my heart goes out to you. Step-parenting is hard enough without adding in the absolute nightmare you've just described. I really can't see this situation improving at all, and it sounds to me like your partner is just expecting you to parent all the "hard" bits for her like discipline, boundary setting, etc. hence you feeling like "bad cop". It's a massive red flag to me that she's allowing her little lad to call you "Dad" without this being agreed with you first. It's almost like she just wants a man to come into her life and be a Dad to her kids rather than seeing you as a partner first and then slowly becoming a Stepdad as the relationship evolves.

What have you decided to do OP?

She's asking you to discipline and physically restrain her son in order to force him to clean his teeth? You don't even live with this child, let alone have any kind of parental relationship .

No. Just no.

Get yourself out of this before you risk being accused of worse.

Incompatible.

Don't move in together.

If you really want to, go on adult only dates together.

You will save yourself a load of stress.

@StarryNight468

What have you decided to do OP?

@StarryNight468 I think I know what I need to do. Its funny because the amount of threads you see on this site and you wonder why people seem to refuse the idea of ending things... But when it happens to you, it is tough. So currently trying to wrap my head around it and do it, lots of feelings on both sides and really do love them so much. Plus the fallout on the kids...

Do you think she would be receptive to a parenting course? Or maybe if you really want it to work book a couple of couples counselling sessions so you're able to talk to her without her becoming defensive about all of the above?

But I really urge you not to put your happiness on hold because of guilt. You will feel far more guilty the longer it continues if your heart isn't in this relationship.

I have a DSS in my life and a DS with my DH, I love my little boy more than anything in the world but if I could go back in time I would not have continued to date my DH. It sounds awful writing it down and makes me feel terrible. I know how hard this is

Op my partner and I are on the same page mostly and he is very open to my thoughts on parenting his child and it’s still really hard at times. I think your situation sounds very difficult and you are very wise to listen to your feelings.

I don't think you should move in together and I don't think you should become a hands on step father.