SDs refusals and holiday dilemma

[absolutecarnage]

Girls are 8 and 10, one each. We are pretty much a blended family.

We have been treating the girls on holiday every year but after paying out sooooo much money this year for a U.K. stay we have talked about buying a large family tent and going camping instead of cottage/caravan stays for next summer to try and cut costs.

Me and my partner went camping at the weekend and he did a complete uturn of the idea of camping because he feels like it’s unfair on his Dd (the youngest). She has been scared of everything lately and kind of sulking over things because she doesn’t want to do them, which has taken the enjoyment out of many things over the past year or two. Theme parks for example, we have spend money on theme parks or fairgrounds to treat them both to a day out of fun which they have been excited to do, but once we are there she will flag our refuse to go on anything because she’s either too scared or she just doesn’t want to. It either ends up in half an hour to 45 minutes (no word of a lie!!) of talking her around to go on a ride, or tears from her.

I will just put this out there now, it will be stuff she has gone on before and enjoyed, and once she has participated she absolutely loves it. We don’t push her to go on stuff that is too scary or too old for her. But we will spend half the day on her, either convincing her to go on things rather than actually enjoying the day.

Another example, we took her on her first boat ride last year and it took us about a week to convince her to go on it. She absolutely loved it once she was on it, would not stop talking about it for ages but I know full well of we went to do it again it would be the same situation all over again.

Lifts - same thing. All of a sudden she won’t go in lifts where she has been fine in them before. She is fine once she is in them she almost forgets she’s in one so it seems daft to either avoid them or spend five minutes talking her around to going in one.

Now the camping situation, we raised the idea with the girls and it was rejected from her straight away because she does not want to sleep in a tent. I know full well she will be fine - the girls often sleep in their own tent at home for the night as a bit of fun when they have weekends together here.

Am I unreasonable to think that it’s not unfair to push her out of her comfort zone with this and she just needs a little nudge? My partner is stepping back from the idea now because he believes it’s unfair to make her do something she doesn’t want to do, but at the expense of the family holiday plans and financial plans of course. Please tell me if I’m being too harsh on her!

I think the bigger issue is this sudden onset of anxiety. Has anything happened with her recently? Have you discussed with achool?

*school

You both need to be totally up for camping.
However with regards to the DC, they are the children. You decide on the method of holidaying and they can have input on where you go or what type of campsite for example.
You pack the car and drive to the holiday destination. I guess if she doesn't want to get out of the car then that's her issue. She will eventually because there is no option.

All the other things you've mentioned there are options but this one there is isn't. Does your DH think DSD is going to improve by being given the power of veto? I don't think so.

I don’t know, she’s always been like this in some ways really? It used to be just over things she didn’t want to do, like if she wanted to go on the swings instead of a slide in a park for example, she would act out and it would be unhappiness for a good twenty minutes until she came around to it and it was forgotten about for example. Now this is over mainly everything.

She seems genuinely happy in herself away from this. We have had issues with her mum before and anxiety in her has been bad with resulting in her wetting the bed and genuinely being scared and disliking her mum (she’s a very controlling person and she has taken the brunt many times) but over the past year this has settled loads and she seems a very happy little girl now. It is literally over trying new things or having fun

Maybe I am misreading your post, but it sounds quite attention seeking to me, and it’s working as every time you spend a great deal of time and attention persuading her to do things. I’d just stop, and if she says no then fine she misses out and can stay in the car. She’ll soon get bored

With regard to the theme parks and days out I would hope that you continue to do the fun stuff with your own child and leave dp to deal with his daughter's refusal. No sense in you all standing around for 45 minutes trying to coax her into doing something. If she sees that yourself and your dd are off having fun she might change her tune.

I agree with @olivesnutsandcheeseplease. You tell the girls this is what you are doing for holidays this year. They don't get a say without trying it. Is your dp's ex on the scene? If so, and his dd is outright refusing to go, just go when she's at her mums. Again she might realise what she's missing out on then. But do not bow to her demands and leave your own dd to suffer because of it. If that means you going camping with a relative/friend instead of dp and his dd then so be it.

@olivesnutsandcheeseplease this is exactly how I see this as well, our holidaying shouldn’t be influenced by the children not wanting to.

I spend half my teenage years camping and I used to sulk every time because I didn’t have my straighteners with me and there was bugs everywhere haha. But I loved the holidays and my father didn’t stop the whole idea of going just because I pulled a face over it.

My partner is not accustomed to it really. He has been on big camping holidays with the family as a kid but they always stayed in a caravan whilst his cousins were in tents. He also said to me that it will be a better idea to take them where they have more kids around to play with where they take their mind off the situation they are in (being in a tent in the outdoors), but I feel like as fun as that would be it would still be fun as a family of four, they have each other to play with and run around with.

Imo she needs to not be pandering to. 45 mins of a day out to coax her onto a ride? No bloody way!!

As others have said, you seem to be hyper focusing on her refusals and consulting her on things that she really just needs to put up with. It seems like she has found a way of getting all the attention and you are pandering to her prima Donna behaviour! Stop consulting the kids on stuff. You’re in charge! It sounds like making her responsible for these decisions is making her anxious too.

I do spend time with my DD just us two when it comes to certain activities. She has said she wants to go rock climbing soon which I’m buzzing about!! But I know SD won’t want to go which is fine so I will take my DD and enjoy that until SD finally want to get involved too and when she does, she can.

But yes massively unfair on my DD especially at the theme park (the situation I described was my Dds birthday ).

The thing is with my Dp, he feels strongly about his Dd not wanting to miss out on things that’s why he tries so hard with her but to everyone’s expense. I remember the 45 minute incident which I described in my first post I got fed up of waiting, as much as I wanted her to be included after about 15 minutes I upped and left them and took my DD on the ride which was fun. We came off and talked her in to it because my Dd was desperate for her to come on and experience it. We queued up for ages with her sulking and last minute she refused to get on the ride. Really really frustrating.

My DP seemed slightly annoyed that we left them both but I told him it was unfair to myself and to her as it was her day. Then we got over it.

Maybe it is an attention thing. I’m careful what to say on here, I love my SD very much but I know step mums get a lot of backlash for saying the wrong thing on here.

If children need boundaries and to know that an adult is in charge in order to feel secure, it follows that an anxious child who has been handed too much power over everyone elses time is going to get worse the more she is pandered to?
At aged 8/10 (sorry didn't pick up which is which) is old enough to stand holding the bags at the side of a ride if she doesn't want to go on for example. She will see everyone else having a good time, she will see that you won't be wasting time coaxing and coddling her, maybe she will come to her own conclusions about the best way to conduct herself?

It sounds like she has a lot of power in deciding what the family do or don't do. How has that happened?

If my 8 yr old didn't want to go to a theme park, they would just be told they were going. If they didn't want to go on any ride, fine, they stand and watch with one of the adults. If they were happy to do that, then a nice chat while waiting is fine, try to make it a bit fun people watching. If they are still bolshy and moody while doing what they want i.e not going on the ride, then they have a very boring wait. We wouldn't be wasting everyone else's time trying to persuade them to do a fun thing. They would not be getting half a day of attention for being in a sulk.

Lifts, just use the stairs, they are usually fairly near by, no need for a 5 minute discussion.

Holidays, my kids just get told this is when and where we are going on holiday. They don't really get a choice and certainly wouldn't be given the final say in where we go. It's just presented as a fait au complit.

We all have to do things we don't want to do sometimes, if you've never learnt how to deal with that as a child, it's going to make grown up life very difficult. And a teenager who is used to getting their own way all of the time ???? The stuff nightmares are made of!
Giving her the power, at 8 years old, to decide on things that affect the whole family financially is just a big no from me.

In addition, we signed the girls up for acro lessons about a year ago. SD could only go every other weekend because her mum would not let her go on her time (fair enough) but we had to pay for full time classes which was costly when she was only going twice per month. Over the past two months it has been clear to me that she has not been enjoying it, any bump or scrape she was in tears and just genuinely sulking in the way there because she did not want to go.

I pulled my partner aside and said as much as I don’t mind paying for her to be included it is not right or fair on her to make her do these things if she’s not enjoying them and the best thing to do would be to pull her out and give her the option to do something she wants to do and we will put money aside for that. My partner wasn’t too sure because he knew that once we pulled her out she would want to go back to be involved again (which is true it is always the case lol) but I put my foot down with it and eventually pulled her out myself - I was paying for it - and her place in the class was given away. He didn’t seem too happy he kept hinting that she was missing out and the whole situation was ridiculous. Yes shes unhappy that my Dd now gets to go but she’s over it now and excited to do something of her own.

My DP has missed a lot of time with his Dd over covid and we have had stuff going on with courts and access to her so I think he feels like he needs to kind of overcompensate for her time which I totally get, I’d want to please my Dd as well if I didn’t see her as much as I’d like, and I get he wants to make her happy which is lovely but at the minute nothing is making her happy because I genuinely feel like she’s choosing not to. I feel this is more bad behaviour on her part which I feel guilty about saying, rather than genuine anxiety over things. Im not ruling out that she does have anxiety either as we have had situations in her life where she has been through difficulty that comes with having a split family where the mother won’t cooperate (pulling her out of her holidays with us, threatening to call the police on her dad for things) etc but as I said over the past 12 months we haven’t had much of the sort to justify her unwillingness to do things

Thanks guys I think needed some perspective to feel like im not being the unreasonable one.

I think as well we are quite holistic with our ideas and things and we like the children to input what we do. We are very close as a family and our time is limited with them having another mum and another dad to go back to, but you are right in saying she has too much power and I feel like it’s at the hands of my DP.

I experienced something similar with the younger of my step daughters and it turned out that she and her sister had been primed by their DM to make my life as difficult as possible. ( I was not the OW, but DH ex was and still is bitter that my DH was not pining after her many years after her cheating and ending their marriage and that he was happy) I was at patient as I could be with her and like your SD she always enjoyed herself once she realised that she was the only person missing out and she also realised that she was making her Dad very unhappy by behaving like this.

I think it’s difficult to experience as well when three of us are having fun and one of us is constantly sulking and missing out not to want to adapt plans so everyone’s involved. As much as it’s not fair on us it’s not fair on her either if that makes sense?

But I feel this has gone too far now.

How do I approach this with my DP without sounding like I’m punishing her for it by putting my foot down?

How much contact time does your SD have with the rest of you?

I have a child who can be like this sometimes. Not now but when younger.

It doesn’t sound like anxiety to me, maybe a little but not a harmful level.

Sounds more like she has got used to acting this way (again as I said my DS can be like this!) he can sulk or sigh or moan or say no. The only way to resolve it is not to pander to it. He gets firmly told, this is what’s happening and no amount of playing up is going to change it.

He gets consequences if he’ll he carries on, losing things etc.

It sounds like a parenting issue. He’s got used to asking her permission for stuff and pandering to her behaviour. I am almost certain if it was just ignored and instead of 45 minutes of ‘convincing’ it was just a simple, well we are going on so let’s get in the queue, and not even acknowledging her playing up, it would stop pretty soon.

If it’s just something to do with her that might be different. But he is allowing this to go on with things that affect the whole family and that is just not on and it needs to stop.

You could approach this by saying that the actual only way to deal with anxiety is to face what you are anxious about in order to realise it’s not so bad as you thought.

This is proved by her doing things and then enjoying it.

Pandering to it/making a big thing of something actually makes anxiety worse! So he needs to stop this if he wants it to get better.

My DD used to have the lift fear too, and we did take the stairs sometimes. However sometimes we couldn’t, so she was told we are going in, and I didn’t acknowledge or pander to her behaviour over it. She soon got over it and isn’t traumatised and uses lifts fine now.

He needs to realise that he is not helping. CBT is all about facing the difficult things and doing them anyway, to adjust your thinking around what is bad and what isn’t.

This will help her, but also help everyone else as there will be no days wasted trying to convince her to do things.

And when it comes to things she cannot decide/refuse like the holiday, don’t discuss with them, tell them that is what’s happening. My DP can also do this sometimes with things he will ask his kids ‘what do you want for dinner?’ Or ‘where do you want to go?’ When we have already decided which drives me bonkers cause I’ll say you are asking them a question that we already have the answer to, tell them, don’t ask, we already know what we are doing and it’s not being changed because 1 child wants something else! So take away the questions or ‘discussions’ around stuff that is none negotiable.

My son is coming up to 8 and he is scared of a lot of things. He used to be fearless. It might just be a phase and she could grow out of it. Maybe wait and see what's shes like in 6months time then decide what to do re holidays

Every other weekend and a night every mid week. So we do go long periods every fortnight were we don’t see her but this can’t be changed as much as it would be better to have a more balanced schedule for her.

We do know there is differences in parenting styles when she is at her mothers too, I know her bedtime is whenever, she gets very spoiled etc but I don’t want to say too much about that either because it’s nothing to do with me. The weeks where she is not her for almost a week is the hardest, she is often very sulky and sometimes feels like it’s deliberately where there is worsening of behaviour, but then again she always looks very tired also! She comes around within the hour the majority of the time.

I do feel my partner doesn’t help with how much he feeds the attention however.

There was an incident a few weeks back where we treated them to take them to the park (5 minute walk from home) on a Sunday evening which is rare because usually Sunday is a family tea, bath and early bed ready for school. We had been down with covid quite bad for weeks before and not been able to take them anywhere so we made an exception. It was getting close to bedtime when I said let’s take them home and get them sorted for school. My partners Dd found it a good time to not listen when we said home time and took the liberty of dallying about and insisting on having a few ‘last goes’ on the slide.

Me and my Dd were half way down the field at this point and joking to each other about it taking another hour to walk back home. My partner thought it would be a good idea to lecture her there and then for HALF AN HOUR at the base of the park, rather than doing it either at home or on the way home whilst we were lingering about it waiting for them. I eventually ran back (after ten minutes of this half an hour) and got the house key off him and said I was going to walk Dd home to get her sorted for bed and he went ‘we are coming now’ I walked back to Dd. We waited. Nothing. We eventually walked home and he seemed a bit annoyed that we left him but this is what I am talking about all this time on her impacting the rest of us. The girls didn’t get to bed until an hour after their usual bedtime because it was more arguing between SD and DP and my DD and her share a room. It’s madness.

I would deliberately pick a few activities where if she doesn't join in fully, it doesn't really matter and stop giving her attention for not doing so.
Say swimming in a pool that has chutes. If she won't go on them you say, 'no problem, we'll take turns to go on with DD', and she waits at the bottom or in normal pool with the other adult.
Avoid the subject of her not going on other than to say 'would you like to try it this time?' and off you go again.
BUT you need DH to understand that he isn't to fuss her, make a big deal out of it etc.
Let her see for herself when she is missing out but without the pressure of big days out where it is a lot of money wasted.
You could also try a night or two away camping somewhere. I think it is great for kids and they make site friends.

The pandemic has heightened the anxiety of a lot of children. I wouldn’t rule out anxiety, and I agree with PP that her having counselling/therapy to discuss this is a good idea.

Input is one thing but what you're describing is way beyond that.
Kids do better presented with options rather than a blank cheque IMO.
"Do you want to come on the ride or stand here?" still allows DSD to decide for herself, it just takes away her power to decide for everyone else that they will be standing around wasting their time while she hums and haws.

@squiglet111 I’m staring to think it’s not fear and it’s more ‘I don’t want to do it.’

My SD refused to wash her hands after she’s been to the toilet and either forgets or lies about it. We have to send her back up most times to wash them. Quite recently, she’s scared of hand dryers because she doesn’t like the noise and again I’m starting to think she’s ‘scared’ because she doesn’t want to wash her hands. There is a pattern here!