Help and advice please

[Cakelaur]

I'd really appreciate no judgement. Just constructive advice, because I'm really trying and obviously failing.

So back story. I have a 14yr old DSS, and a 2yr old DS and 1yr old DS. DH and I have been married for 2years and together for 5.

DSS is AMAZING with his little brothers but we're really struggling in almost every other area. He's a great kid BUT his mother is UTTERLY HORRIFIC! We have him every weekend apart from the occasional one where his mum wants him. DH and his ex DO NOT get on at all! But they generally manage to co parent in some shape or form. I used to have a brilliant relationship with DSS until his mum got jealous (I assume) and told him that he was no longer allowed to speak to me when he wasn't here. So no texts, calls etc. A lot of lies started coming out about me (I hated him, wished he wasn't around etc) and this has over the years now massively put strain on our relationship.

I've been told by DSS, DH and the ex that they don't think I should discipline or correct DSS. This has had moments of complete disrespect from him, although now it's just weirdly awkward. Sometimes I can't keep my mouth shut because some of the comments that come out of his mouth are unacceptable in our house and I don't want my boys raised like that (prejudice/racist/disrespectful comment about kids at school and families - to name the most recent example) where I will say something. It's then totally blown out of proportion, he texts his mum saying she's right, I do hate him, she calls DH and we then end up in some form of argument.

I think that he has no drive or purpose. He's set no chores, rules, boundaries etc. He sleeps until whenever, doesn't shower, slobs around the house makes food and doesn't tidy up after himself (I know all normal teenage behaviours) but I believe that kids should be taught simple things that shape them into well round adults. DH and I just don't know what to do. It's starting to strain our relationship. DH tiptoes around DSS and doesn't want to upset him. I don't want him to feel left out or excluded, so I feel that making him get out of bed, and shower and join us on a family walk is the better option to just letting him sleep all day and us not go on a walk so he doesn't miss out.

This past weekend was DH's 40th, and DSS said he was sick and didn't want to come on Friday (fine but then we found out he went on a walk and lunch with his mum - would have been fine to do but it's the lying) he then came to ours on Saturday evening. I'd organised with him that he'd help set up the surprise decorations and things with me... he didn't. He then on the Sunday didn't get out of bed until 2pm, didn't say happy birthday, played with his brothers beautifully, but then took himself back to his room. My DH was devastated. He tried to talk to DSS but he said nothing was wrong, he just felt ill.

He was here for 48hours, he didn't shower. He was in bed for approx 40 of these hours. He doesn't make conversation, interact, want to be involved. I think there may be more to it (maybe a little bit of depression) but we just don't know what to do.

DH and I are both struggling to know what's best, how to parent etc. We are on the same page with our DC, but with DSS we totally disagree. I want to treat him like my own, but I'm not allowed to. And DH just wants harmony. It's now causing issues because I don't want to have to have him come on holiday with us (I've suggested DH and he go on a "boys trip") I'd rather he not come on every family outing and I'd quite like to just disappear every weekend so I don't have to deal with the awkwardness and be on eggshells all weekend.

We're willing to try anything. But we'd love some advice or experiences of others. We think maybe we need some outsiders opinions of what works etc. Because I hate every weekend at the moment and DH does too. And I'd like to try to mend mine and DSS's relationship before it's too late.
And also how the hell do you deal with the ex?!

If you got this far... thank you xx

I don't have the best advice I'm afraid as I have some of the same issues with my SC. There are lots of posters who will read this and give you good advice im sure. But I didn't want to read and run.
Does your SS see that you and your DH disagree about his parenting? Whilst many will say that you aren't there to parent him, if he's in your care and he does / says something you wouldn't let your own DC say/ do then you have a right to discipline him. Imo.
If your DH has told your SS you aren't to discipline him, then your DH should be the one looking after him. He can't have it both ways. If he does disagree with something you say / do then he shouldn't speak to you about it infront of SS either.
With regards to some of the other stuff like getting up or getting him to shower... honestly take a step back. It probably causes you more hassle than its worth for you. Let DH sort that. Let your DH tidy up his mess. If you're going for a walk , don't force him, invite him by all means but don't insist. SS can either include or exclude himself from things you do.
It's great you want to treat him as your own and there are loads of ways you can treat all the kids fairly.
You say you think be might be depressed? Has anything happened that makes you seriously think this? Have you spoke to your DH regarding your concerns?
Some of what you describe is normal teenage behaviour, and perhaps he didn't feel 100% last weekend (doesn't excuse not even saying happy birthday to his dad). I hope your situation improves

Don’t treat him like your own. He’s not your own. Neither her nor his parents want this level of input from you.
Don’t discipline him. What’s it to you if he doesn’t shower or spends the weekend in bed? It’s him missing out, not you or your boys.
Where I think you do have the right to get involved is where it directly affects you or your sons. You don’t need to put up with shit from a kid in the street and you don’t need to put up with it from a kid inside your own home.
If either he or his parents have an issue with this then tough titties, the answer is for better behaviour/parenting from them, not for you to allow yourself to be walked all over.
If he makes food and doesn’t tidy then you stop buying the food he likes. Dirty plate goes in his room on his bed or if that’s too petty then you tell DH it’s his mess to clear up, not yours. He’s not your child to clear up after or buy food for.
Etc etc etc. Natural consequences for the choices made by DH, his ex and his son. None of this is your problem and it can only affect you as far as you let it

OP, teenagers are a breed apart. I would let him lounge around ,sleep in,etc. If you want to take the boys out for a walk while he is asleep, do so. He likely won't even know that you are gone.

As for his attitude and racist and unkind statements about others, I would just let him know the world view that you want the boys to have and acknowledge that his world view may be different but while not judging his view there are statements that you would prefer that he not make in front of his brothers. I would do this at a time when he is just lounging around and not when he is sprouting off in the throes of his teenage wisdom.

I would not assume that a lot of the changes have to do with his mom. She is probably also experiencing his teenage mood and behavior changes.

Obviously he is good with his brothers and not adverse to coming to spend time with all of you albeit on his terms.

Try to tolerate these teenage years and think of it as training for what may be ahead with your boys.

It sounds as though you all have a solid foundation even if it is being rattled by the terrible teens

If he's great with your kids OP, it is not you he has a problem with!

Not doing his dad's birthday stuff is passive aggressive feelings directed pointedly at his dad...

There was a fabulous thread about teenage crazy behaviour on the main board recently. Not by step-mums. It would cheer you immensely up immensely to realize what teens are dishing out generally these days - honestly, yours doesn't sound that bad!

Honestly? The best course of action for you is to disengage with the subject of his upbringing. It's intensely frustrating to watch a child be raised in a way you don't agree with and to see the negative outcomes of those decisions, but your input is not welcomed even by your husband, so it's not something you should waste your time stressing over. Your husband is well aware of all that and if he is choosing to argue with you rather than be supportive of your feelings and the toll the situation takes on you, then he forfeits the right to extensive help or sympathy from you. If he wants to struggle along with these issues then let him deal with it all, tell him you will leave him to it but he needs to do all the cleaning up after his son etc. I would tell him you would like a blanket rule of insisting on showers (at the very least on the day he arrives) due to the hygiene and Covid risks and you would appreciate it if your DH could respect that and enforce it, but other than that you will butt out for everyone's sake.

You might find that it's a lot easier to get on with your SC and not be frustrated by the issues around his behaviour if you do not feel any personal responsibility to fix them.

I think you need to separate out what affects you (eg rudeness to you), what is unacceptable behaviour that could have far reaching consequences if left unchecked (eg racist comments) and what you just disapprove of (eg, staying in bed all day and not showering). Only try to change the first two.

Then I think you need to set ground rules. If he isn't expected to do chores, fine, your DH picks up the slack and cleans up after him, not you.

If your DH does not want you to discipline him then he needs to step up and call out each and every instance of him being disrespectful to you racist comments. Racism isn't really a different worldview / agree to disagree kind of situation as the above poster mentioned as it does immense harm to people of colour and if he carries on with such statements it could have very negative consequences for your DSS.

It isn't acceptable for your DH to expect you just to tolerate poor behaviour if he is unwilling to parent his son.

I was about to say similar to what @KylieKoKo said. If he is rude to you or it affects your child then absolutely say something. You would say something to anyone else I would hope.

Anything else like the lying in bed all day try to disengage from. His parents have indicated that they don't want your input on his upbringing so it is up to them if he lazes around all day. It is hard but once you get the hang of not caring it get easier.

The lying and not joining in the birthday - try and step back and let it go. It says more about him than it does you or DH.

I think it's his dad he's not happy with.

Does his dad ever spend quality one to one time with him? Do activities...or a shared hobby maybe.

If there's no common ground...his DS won't feel the need to engage.

Maybe he thinks the only ones interested in him are his little brothers, so he has a lot of time for them.

Teenagers do spend a lot of time in their rooms and getting them out means a parent really has to make the effort to engage with them.

If all activities are family activities, then that may be an issue.

Does he know what his son likes and dislikes? His character and personality?

I'm not getting the impression that your DH does a lot of parenting...although at 14 he can do a lot for himself.

His dad should talk to him about the racism...'the school that tried to end racist' is a good educational way to teach kids about racism. You can find it on YouTube. The problem is at 14, opinions are formed and carried into adulthood.

It really needs to be part of the school curriculum from primary school IMO.

Thank you all so much for your comments.

Just to make a point my DH is an amazing dad. To all the boys. He is just very relaxed. And especially with his son, he is so terrified of pushing him away by adding rules in. And his ex is an utter monster. The drama she had caused over the years is beyond anything I've ever seen someone capable of!

It seems like I maybe need to let go and set some of my own boundaries. I just feel like the person who misses out is DH and he's the kindest most loving person I've ever known and it upsets me that it hurts him. I think maybe he's just going to have to step up a little more with boundaries.

@SandyY2K He does have a reasonable amount of one on one time with DSS. He goes every Sunday to his rugby practice/games and one evening a week I leave them to it so they can watch a series they that both like. But it just seems like DSS isn't bothered. But like all of you have said. Maybe this is just teenagers!!

@Tiredoftattler I definitely don't think it's all to do with his mum. However she is utterly nasty. We tried to approach her about a year ago to see if we could set some joint ground rules and she basically gloated at the fact that we had problems at our house and has thrown it in DH's face ever since. Apparently she can't do any wrong and she's promised us that it will be her life's mission to make our life difficult! 🙈 so at the very least I can say she's not making anything easier. She is now pregnant and I'm wondering if maybe he's nervous about the new baby.

Looks like hubby and I need to sit down and re-evaluate things at our house and enforce a few new rules. And hope for the best.

Few things.

1. I agree with all the advice re detaching and letting your DP pick up the slack. He and his EXW don’t get to ask you to not discipline this child and yet you then do the grunt work.
2. some of the behaviours you are listing are not ‘normal’ teen behaviours IMO. He’s clearly under some form of conflict. Whether that’s an internal conflict vs whatever the mother may be seeding in his head I don’t know.
3. sorry but OP see your DH for who he is. He is not an amazing dad, not to this child at this stage. Any parent who starts allowing the tail to wag the dog is on a hiding to nowhere (and by this I mean failing his child by being terrified about implementing rules).

What exactly was your DH’s response to HIS child making racist/ prejudiced comments? Did he engage in a discussion with his son? Seek to understand where these comments came from?

@sassbott DH is an amazing dad. He does everything he possibly can for the boys. But he's not perfect. And he's looking for advice on how to do it better. But he certainly tries his best. He doesn't want to push his son away and doesn't want anyone upset. I think he's just too soft. Which in turn is having a negative effect.

I also agree there is possibly more to it with DSS's behaviour. I have nannied many kids in my time and none have been like this. (Although none have been a split home)

Appreciate your comments.

You didn’t answer my question.

What did your DH do when he heard his son make these comments?

Divorce/ separation absolutely impacts kids - but I’m yet to see it be a reason to justify racist commentary from a 14 year old. Teens make provocative comments all the time - I get it, I live with them. But he’ll would freeze over before I let racist / prejudiced commentary pass without engaging in discussion. I don’t care who it upsets.

If your DH is allowing these comments to happen and not addressing them? Then no, sorry he is far from an ‘amazing’ dad.

I agree that he is not in fact an ‘amazing’ dad. If he were you would not be posting here!

Your DH would rather engage in conflict with you than implement boundaries with DSS or ex. He is your common-or-garden NR dad (invertebrate). He is afraid afraid afraid.

I would say there’s a world of normal teen behaviour here (saying provocative things, lounging in bed, not showering, not wishing to come on walks.

For goodness sake leave DSS to wallow in his bed if his parents are happy with it.

Leave DH to clear up after DSS. Step right back from all that shizzle.

Step in with the racist stuff. He is probably saying is because he can get away with it. Don’t tolerate that from anyone.

The rest? Not your circus.

@sassbott so at the time he allowed me to say my piece. DSS stopped dead in his tracks and looked at his dad. My DH agreed it wasn't acceptable terminology that he used. Allowed him to finish he story. He and I then spoke about it later. And then his DSS brought up to him later that I was offensive towards him, and snapped at him.

I agree that there are things that need fixing. And I'm sure none of us are perfect parents. Thus me writing this post. We are BOTH looking for advice. This post is not just for me. So please can we tone down the "he's a shit dad" talk. We both agree his parenting style needs improving. So maybe some constructive advice would be better.

@LatentPhase I think you're probably right. I do just need to step back. And hope that the age gap is big enough that my kids don't get any ideas that how he acts is acceptable.

Not sure what "NR" dad stands for. But he will be the first to admit that he's scared to rock the boat. He's absolutely afraid of losing his kid. Or pushing him away or making our house less enjoyable than his mums. It would be so much easier if we could communicate with his ex about all this and agree some boundaries that work for both houses! Never gonna happen. Tried it before.

Hi Op. NR is most likely "Non Resident Parent". Just a couple of thoughts because I agree with most of the other posters. First, you need to control what you can, and that is You. You can't control your DSS, Your Husband, or the Ex. So the advice to step away? It's the only logical thing to do. Your energy is best spent on your own two boys. I agree with the previous posters about typical teen behavior. They can be "challenging". Pick and choose your battles. Teens need to sleep more (scientifically documented) so I'd let that go. Especially because he's got Rugby on Sunday (at least he's getting some exercise). I think the shower at the beginning of the weekend "because of Covid" is a very reasonable requirement (not request) since he is coming from school and another home. It can be explained that it helps to keep his little brothers safe because they are so small and vulnerable. Getting him to buy in to being their protector might be all it takes. Boys love to be the hero!

That being said, not tolerating disrespect directed at you or racist talk is table stakes as far as I'm concerned. It may just be his clumsy way of figuring out how to be cool or "a man", however, I'd be really clear about my boundaries from here on out, especially with my Husband. The advice to have your Husband be the point person re cleaning, entertaining, etc. is spot on. Neither one of them have any reason to change their behaviors if they're comfortable. If life becomes more difficult for your Husband because he's now dealing directly with his child, then that's his issue. If you are less available because you don't appreciate the way his son speaks to you, then that is his problem moving forward. If his son brings up your "detachment", you can explain that he doesn't seem to care to treat you in the same respectful way that you treat him so it's better that he deal directly with his father when he visits.

Now for something completely different...this boy's mother is pregnant. I can't imagine that many teen boys would be overly thrilled with that scenario. That may be part of what is going on with him...he's literally faced with the fact that his mother has had sex (ewww!) and is going to have a baby that will take up all of her time. His father has two new babies, and a separate life from his most of the time. That's got to be difficult. Plus, hormones, school, no social life...I wouldn't want to be him. He's got to be wondering where he fits in, if at all. I'd focus on the fact that he seems to love his brothers and work out some ways to play on that positive whenever he surfaces from his cave. Best of Luck, OP.

I agree with this ^^ essentially as DSS gets exercise and loves his brothers, there’s plenty positive to build on here. Plus. You’ll be amazed, potentially, at how slovenly your own boys become as teenagers. Enforce your own needed boundaries regarding racist talk. Step back from the rest...

I would disengage completely tbh.

Any mess he makes, ask your DH to come clear it up, doesn't want to shower? Fine, DH can tell him to if he's bothered. Doesn't want to get out of bed? Fine, DH can tell him to get up if he's bothered. Doesn't want to join in things with you all? Fine, DH can include him if he's bothered.

The only thing I wouldn't stop doing is having boundaries about behaviour or things said in front of my children. It's your home. You have every right to pull your DSS up on poor behaviour/things said in front of you and I honestly wouldn't care less if DH or DSS's Mum told me not to. If he doesn't like it, your DH and DSS can go and live somewhere else. You deserve some say in what goes on in your home and around your children.

But yeah I'd completely disengage from the rest of it. Leave him to it, your DH can deal with it if he wants to, if not it's not your problem, just get on with enjoying your two your efforts clearly aren't appreciated here anyway, not just by DSS but by your DH either so why bother.

Thank you @ihateaparade appreciate your comments. And I defo agree with your last paragraph. It's defo a huge amount he's taking on. That's why ideally I'd like to TRY to mend our relationship as it probably about to get a whole lot tougher at his mums.

@LatentPhase it's true. There are so many positives about him. And he's such a sweet boy (behind all the bullshit)

@ZoomHell I think you're right. Thank you. I've spoken to DH and set out my boundaries and how I plan to go forward. He seems keen to find a resolve. We shall see. Tonight we're discussing the non negotiables that will be set in place as of tomorrow. 🤞🏻🤞🏻

@Youseethethingis

Don’t treat him like your own. He’s not your own. Neither her nor his parents want this level of input from you. Don’t discipline him. What’s it to you if he doesn’t shower or spends the weekend in bed? It’s him missing out, not you or your boys. Where I think you do have the right to get involved is where it directly affects you or your sons. You don’t need to put up with shit from a kid in the street and you don’t need to put up with it from a kid inside your own home. If either he or his parents have an issue with this then tough titties, the answer is for better behaviour/parenting from them, not for you to allow yourself to be walked all over. If he makes food and doesn’t tidy then you stop buying the food he likes. Dirty plate goes in his room on his bed or if that’s too petty then you tell DH it’s his mess to clear up, not yours. He’s not your child to clear up after or buy food for. Etc etc etc. Natural consequences for the choices made by DH, his ex and his son. None of this is your problem and it can only affect you as far as you let it

Absolute rubbish. You are a huge part of his life, and do therefore this level of input is needed. His attitude and behaviour towards you both isn't working with both of you. Possibly sit him down explain this to him, find out how he feels and you both need to do this, you are a family unit.

We are currently having a number of challenges with the eldest SS. He is finding the transition between homes tough, school tough, and as a result he is becoming increasingly clingy with his mom. Which is a natural response. But his attitude and behaviour with everyone else is so poor. Lies, tantrums, treats his friends badly, ignores his dad, only speaks to his step siblings when he wants something. With me however because I set the boundaries firmly he doesn't do that, he rarely lies to me as he knows it will be called out. And also I play with him listen to his conversations about things and show an interest. The only way we will over come this is by being a unit and working together to solve it. Unfortunately like your situation his mother isn't easy to work with and causes toxic problems- so we do what we can at our end. I'm sadly resigned to the fact that that is all we can do and hope that in the future he embodies the values we have taught and modelled to him.

Best of luck, step parenting is so difficult but so worth it x

Absolute rubbish. You are a huge part of his life, and do therefore this level of input is needed
You can tell me it’s rubbish all you like but the child and both his parents have already rejected this so good luck to OP if she decides to go against them all and shoehorn herself in where she’s not wanted. 🤷‍♀️