Step-children and vaccine

[Littlepaws18]

Ok I can foresee a problem here with the vaccine. Have two step-children primary age, who primarily live with their mum. Now throughout the whole pandemic she has refused to wear a mask, has mixed with friends, parents, had princess party for her daughter in lockdown, has an exemption neck thing which is no doubt bought off Amazon.

She hasn't had the virus, knows no one close to her who has, so feels the virus is a con and if exists 'is only flu'.

Transversely we have been so careful, three members of my family have died and one of my closest friends who worked in a hospital died very recently. Covid has destroyed the people I care for deeply.

So had a conversation with SS who informs me his mom will never let him get the vaccine. This is going to end in court I reckon I just can't see how this is going to be resolved. Any suggestions?

There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. It is a personal decision for her.

Why will it end up in court? You cannot force her to get vaccinated, and I very much doubt you'd get full custody because she personally chooses not to get vaccinated.

I understand you're upset but this is none of your business. And I say that as a step mum, who's dps ex has made many questionable decisions.

Oh sorry, never let him get the vaccine?

It's not liscensed for children anyway.

Why will it end in court?? That’s a bit dramatic isn’t it?!

If she’s the children’s primary carer and decides not to get her children vaccinated- which many many people are holding off on doing because it’s such a new vaccine then quite frankly that’s her business and nothing to do with you!

Main suggestion is to wait.

At the moment the only under 16s who can receive the vaccine are a) CEV DC on individual off-licence prescription by a hospital consultant after full review of their individual risk and benefit, and b) those enrolled in the new AZ paediatric trial (who will be blinded on whether they receive it or the meningitis jab used as the control)

We are a long way off vaccination of healthy U18s, so no point in anticipating what will be happening by then

At the moment just leave it well alone. Concentrate on yourself and your grieving giving their mum as little head space as possible.

If the vaccine gets authorised for children over 6 then it is up to your partner, their parent, to pursue it all the way to Court if necessary. Your job will then be to support them as you don't have parental responsibility for your SC.

Yes not my decision but definitely fathers equal decision and I can't see how we will agree. It's a huge health decision that has implications on the whole family.

There is currently no vaccine for children.

What a non issue .

@Littlepaws18

Yes not my decision but definitely fathers equal decision and I can't see how we will agree. It's a huge health decision that has implications on the whole family.

It has health implications on the children but if you're vaccinated in theory why does it matter if they are? They're not at any particular risk.

Agree to leave it alone now. I suppose should really consider it when the time comes. I'm sure we won't be the only family with this dilemma.

That's not how vaccinations work. It's not 100% proof and if they bring it into the home we can still catch it and pass it on to others.

@RedMarauder

At the moment just leave it well alone. Concentrate on yourself and your grieving giving their mum as little head space as possible.

If the vaccine gets authorised for children over 6 then it is up to your partner, their parent, to pursue it all the way to Court if necessary. Your job will then be to support them as you don't have parental responsibility for your SC.

Good advice ty.

@Littlepaws18

That's not how vaccinations work. It's not 100% proof and if they bring it into the home we can still catch it and pass it on to others.

I am aware of how they work, thanks.

What is your actual concern here? Them being ill? You being ill?

Because if you're vaccinated yes you might catch it but you shouldn't get seriously ill.

No vaccines are 100%.

There is currently no vaccine for children.

What a non issue.

Yes this ^

Also you and your husband will be vaccinated soon so will be protected, why would your sc need to be vaccinated. The vaccine protects those who have it, your sc being vaccinated won't protect you or anyone other then theirself.

Yes not my decision but definitely fathers equal decision and I can't see how we will agree. It's a huge health decision that has implications on the whole family. no it doesn’t. If you’ve been vaccinated then you’re not at risk if your DSC haven’t been.

And FGS can people stop going on about how it doesn’t reduce transmission. There is in fact evidence that it does reduce transmission, but that aside, transmission isn’t actually something which is studied during vaccine trials as a general rule, they’ve only looked at this one now because of the circumstances.

If you’ve been vaccinated then you’re not at risk. And presumably these DSC have been coming into your home all the while anyway so why are you only just starting to be concerned?

I had my vaccine on Thursday. Frankly anyone else who decides not to have one is not my problem. I think they’re unwise, but that’s their choice and as long as I have immunity and those I care about do I could care less about what other people decide for themselves.

Given that it is likely to be an NHS directive/policy that children are vaccinated it seems unlikely a court would go against that. If it's the case that only certain children need to be vaccinated, then assuming your step children meet that criteria, again the judge would more than likely follow that directive. The only potential problem area I can see is if the NHS says 'up to you' and that seems unlikely.

So unless mum can prove there is some special reason the child shouldn't be vaccinated and/or the child has strong feelings about it and is old enough to articulate that, it's really a non-issue.

Why are you looking to cause problems or just be upset or be in conflict? Don't over think it. We have too much time to think in lockdown, I think!

Think I need to work on diplomacy, so fully agree there!

But it definitely will be a concern, that hopefully we will be able to overcome. I don't agree with a lot of views here with how the vaccine will play out but I suppose it's a future consideration rather than something to massively worry about now. It will be interesting to see how other families manage this when it arises. In our household it will have to be a definite, because too many people will be exposed without it. And I will worry for the health of the children without it too (which is definitely a primary concern)

And I will worry for the health of the children without it too (which is definitely a primary concern)
Why?

Are they especially vulnerable?

@Watchingbehindmyhands

Given that it is likely to be an NHS directive/policy that children are vaccinated it seems unlikely a court would go against that. If it's the case that only certain children need to be vaccinated, then assuming your step children meet that criteria, again the judge would more than likely follow that directive. The only potential problem area I can see is if the NHS says 'up to you' and that seems unlikely.

So unless mum can prove there is some special reason the child shouldn't be vaccinated and/or the child has strong feelings about it and is old enough to articulate that, it's really a non-issue.

Why are you looking to cause problems or just be upset or be in conflict? Don't over think it. We have too much time to think in lockdown, I think!

Thanks really sound advice and yes agreed that it definitely isn't something to bring up now, and would like it to end peacefully but experience suggests that will be a challenge. Because both sides have very strong views on the subject!

Anyway as always thanks for the advice, will definitely consider your views.

www.2drj.com/post/vaccinations-for-children-what-happens-when-there-is-disagreement

Is a good read OP for where you are. But be prepared for what Court would actually mean and how expense it would be.

That said I suspect she may well decide to get it and her son if it becomes a wide spread vaccination.

With this one though and the unknown longer term effects it would be interesting to see what side the court came down on - just because they have gone along with vaccination before doesnt mean they will this time

You can't force your views on others. My ex is a borderline anti-vaxer, conspiracy theorist (our children say he shouldn't be allowed on the internet!) and has openly said he won't be having the vaccine. This would be fine except we have a CV child. CV child is, fortunately, old enough to vote with his feet if he sees fit but we have had to discuss the fact we don't live somewhere that makes vaccination compulsory and why that is a good thing generally. We can, ultimately, only take responsibility for our own actions/in-actions.

Sadly, if the mom is vaccine adverse, these children may be susceptible to a number of disease and potential carriers of other diseases
consequently putting others at risk.

I am not certain that there is much that you can do. Interestingly enough, no physician's office or hospital has ever asked or required me to provide proof that I had a legal right to obtain medical treatment of any sort for my minor children, and this has been the case both when I was married and when I was divorced. The only fact that ever required documentation was proof of insurance.

I have never witnessed my children's pediatrician asking any parent to provide proof that they had a legal right to obtain treatment for their child. The only thing close to consent that was required involved my signing a form to allow the doctor's office to request or provide information to my insurance carrier.

Perhaps because we had an amicable divorce and were able to stipulate the terms of our divorce agreement there is no reference to medical treatment /decision making other than the requirement that both parents maintain full coverage on the children. The Court simply signed off on the terms that we agreed upon with no modifications at all.
Your husband might have an attorney review the Court Order to determine what his actual rights/ limitations might be. It may be a situation where he can act and rather than seeking permission he can act and then seek forgiveness without incurring any significant legal problems.

I'm really not sure that's good advice!

@Quartz2208

www.2drj.com/post/vaccinations-for-children-what-happens-when-there-is-disagreement

Is a good read OP for where you are. But be prepared for what Court would actually mean and how expense it would be.

That said I suspect she may well decide to get it and her son if it becomes a wide spread vaccination.

With this one though and the unknown longer term effects it would be interesting to see what side the court came down on - just because they have gone along with vaccination before doesnt mean they will this time

Thanks so much for this.

It is a worry but currently I agree that it's a worry for another day. It's too important to ignore as the health implications of everyone involved will be significant. As for forcing a view- it's really not as simple as that, the implications as I mentioned of not having it impacts far too many people for it to be something we can say 'oh agree to disagree'

We have involved courts before, and I think my initial post was a gut reaction rather than a well thought out view! Let's hope it doesn't come to that and to be fair we have negotiated difficult issues in the past- so I think I shouldn't loose sight of that fact and hope we can forge a path amicably together.