At what point do you consider yourself to be a family?

[Noncommittalagain]

We have 3 kids between us - my partner has a 7 yo and I have a 4&6 yo, so similar ages/needs/interests etc. We have had discussions about our future and where we see things going and we both see a future together, both want to live together in a year or so - possibly longer if covid doesn't go away soon, and things with us continue to go well.

Obviously things have been different with lockdown so we haven't been able to spend as much time as a 5 as we would like recently, but I think it's really important for my kids to get to know him and feel comfortable around him before we move in together so that they're not living with a stranger. He thinks all that will happen naturally once we are living together. It's not that he's reluctant to do so, it's more a time thing - he works full time, has his kid every weekend and I have my kids alternate weekends, and we always make sure we have time with our respective kids alone so that doesn't leave much time to do things together as a 5, or him with me and the boys. He always refers to them as 'my kid and yours' rather than children that all belong to us and need to be treated equally. He think s becoming a family happens when you're under the same roof, I think we need to work together as a family before living together.

What do other people do when blending families? Does it happen long before you live together? Is this a red flag?!

Is what a red flag?

It’s not always possibly to completely blend, so no default amount of ‘blendedness’. You need to set your own targets based on your own set of circumstances.

Things like: values underpinning the parenting of you both. Relationshipships/acrimony/boundaries with the ex partner. How supportive are the ex partners, of the kids fostering a relationship with the step parent. How are the kids faring with their parents’ divorce. How acrimonious are the parents in their separation.

It’s so, so, complex. Much more than the ages-and-stages of the kids (though it’s a good start). How long have you been together?

Time is such a crucial ingredient. You need to set your own goals and time frames.

Will it ‘just happen’? It depends on all the above.

Thank you - I meant is the fact that he doesn't think we need to 'blend' before living together a red flag.

Tbh I'm not sure we will manage a completely blended family. His ex is very unsupportive of me being in her daughters life. He doesn't have a formal court agreement for contact so she often changes the arrangements last minute. My ex has had a new partner for a few months and she's there every time the kids go for contact, we don't really talk about it but he wouldn't really be in a position to comment about us.

It's still early days for us, just over a year together but I'd like to have a plan to start moving more towards being a team in the next year or so before moving in together at the 2-3 year point, rather than us all be complete strangers who suddenly live together after a few years. It's complicated isn't it?

It sure is complicated. Probably the first job is to ‘let go’ of some romantic notion of being ‘a family’. It’s not one, it’s two families, co-existing.

Think very carefully if your DP’s ex ‘changes arrangements at the last minute’ - your DP is allowing that. That’s fine while you’re completely unblended. Not your circus etc. Except it will be your circus if you all live together.

If your DP thinks it will ‘all pan out fine by virtue of living under one roof’ then that’s naïve and yes, I would say it’s a big red flag. Often it seems (from reading threads here) men think that they can leave all the emotional work (and intentional stuff around how the family will work) to women. Which will set you up for a big fat fail. Don’t let that happen.

Think about what boundaries need to develop here for it to work. Your DP needs to ‘make it work’ just as much as you. And there’s a lot to lose - yours and your dc stability and well-being. Be careful and intentional and very, very slow.

I agree with your DP I think.

I am an SM and I've been with my partner over 5 years. I'd say that my SCs and I have only become closer and felt more like family since DP & I moved in together 2 years ago. Before then I just felt like a visitor really and me being around was always an 'event'.

We did go on holiday (just in the UK) a few times together before we moved in and that did help. But I think it is the time staying and just being together that made the change, which is what you get when living together. I think kids do need that regular time around someone to start feeling really comfortable.

I'd say do a couple of trips altogether - easier said than done at the moment, I know - and then look at moving in.

Hi @Noncommittalagain, I would agree with everything @LatentPhase has said.
The red flag for me in your posts would be the dynamic between the ex & your dp - she calls all the shots & he dances to her tune. There's a lot of posts on here at the moment whereby this dynamic ended many a new relationship.
You'll be able to hold this at bay while you're still living separately but once you're under the same roof & possibly blending finances it will become very problematic believe me. When the dynamic is such between & partner & his ex it seems to inevitably end up with the entire 'new' household having to revolve around the ex's whims & the nrp's access time with his dc which in turn pushes the resident dc (in this case your dc) to the back of the queue with their needs & wants being constantly overlooked by the nrp who believes that HIS (generally men) dc's needs & wants are way more important than everyone else's.
I would be very wary of this tbh & also of your dp's cavalier attitude that it will all work out under the one roof as it actually sounds like he's not putting much thought into how you all living together would actually look.
You'd also need to ask yourself would you be happy with his dd coming every weekend even when your dcs aren't there?
Would you be ok with access changing ad hoc as per how the dm wants it?
Etc.
Etc.

When I was with my ex, I didn’t consider us being the family unit that we were until Dc1 was born.

Thanks everyone.

The dynamic between my partner and his ex is a concern - how do people over come this? I've explained my concerns to him and he doesn't see an issue (ie doesn't acknowledge that that's the case, doesn't think it will impact the rest of us, doesn't think that any impact is the priority and that him spending time with her is the priority come what may, doesn't think anything needs to change. In fact he told me that my rigid court order with my ex - that literally couldn't work better aside from the fact that my ex is an idiot - was a far worse arrangement than the one he has with his ex where they can 'just work things out between us') so I don't think there is any desire to have structure and routine.

This isn't going to work is it?

I live with my DP, we have kids between us that are here 50/50 but I never considered us a 'family' until we had our own DC. My family was me and my children. I STILL don't see us as one big family though. I don't think I ever will.

If he’s not acknowledging there’s a case now with his ex, then yeah that red flag is waving away.

Well maybe it really does work for him at the moment. He can't pretend the arrangement doesn't work just to please you. If it didn't work down the line, that is at least a year away and what's he meant to do in the meantime? Have structure he doesn't want?

If his ex is doing the lion's share of the parenting I think he owes her a bit of flexibility, personally.

@Noncommittalagain

Thanks everyone.

The dynamic between my partner and his ex is a concern - how do people over come this? I've explained my concerns to him and he doesn't see an issue (ie doesn't acknowledge that that's the case, doesn't think it will impact the rest of us, doesn't think that any impact is the priority and that him spending time with her is the priority come what may, doesn't think anything needs to change. In fact he told me that my rigid court order with my ex - that literally couldn't work better aside from the fact that my ex is an idiot - was a far worse arrangement than the one he has with his ex where they can 'just work things out between us') so I don't think there is any desire to have structure and routine.

This isn't going to work is it?

Hmm I wouldn't move in together while this is the case tbh.

You need to know when his child will be around or not to be able to make any plans. Otherwise you'll end up with loads of situations where your plans get cancelled at the last minute because all of a sudden she's being dropped round, and that's not fair on you or your kids.

Also you don't want to enter into it already on the back foot because his ex can demand whatever, whenever.

Are they very local to you? I am lucky because my DP's ex lives quite far away with the children so there has to be a proper routine in place, so no surprises.

@myfriendsgivebadadvice

Well maybe it really does work for him at the moment. He can't pretend the arrangement doesn't work just to please you. If it didn't work down the line, that is at least a year away and what's he meant to do in the meantime? Have structure he doesn't want?

That's fine if it works for him, but equally he needs to accept that his partner may not want to move in together while this is the case. He seems to be the one pushing for it to happen.

‘Spending time with her is the priority’ fine for now. But in blending - red flag. In blended families (any family) everyone’s needs (not wants) are considered& the adults (plural) need to be in charge. That means you and him.

This flexible ‘we sort things out between us’ it’s possible that when you scratch the surface what this actually means is: ‘she says jump - I say how high’ (to keep the peace).

I say keep assessing this. Proceed with (extreme) caution.

The dynamic between my partner and his ex is a concern - how do people over come this? I've explained my concerns to him and he doesn't see an issue (ie doesn't acknowledge that that's the case, doesn't think it will impact the rest of us, doesn't think that any impact is the priority and that him spending time with her is the priority come what may, doesn't think anything needs to change.

This is why living together could prove challenging in your situation.

It's right for his child to be his priority and flexibility is better, but if that doesn't align with your views, then it would be unwise to blend.

It would only work, if you ensure change of plans don't impact on you/ your DC and you carry on with whatever was planned regardless. So if you have a day our planned and suddenly he has his DD last minute..you should still go. When he realises you will carry on regardless, he might just think twice.

I'd say ensuring you maintain financial independence and a separate account to an extent is the way to go.

There is no right or wrong way when it comes to schedules. Flexible works well for some (on both sides), rigid for others.

The issue us that you've already established a different perspective to blending your families. This 'in between' times need to be used not to start forming a blended family but to establish if there are other areas of potential disparities. This could be in relation to discipline, rules, involvement in children lives, working arrangement, finances, extended families, future children etc...

You need to discuss how you envision your blended family in all honesty. Will you both work ft and share equal time on housework or will you work PT and take more of a role at home. If so, will it involves helping him with his kids if necessary. That one example.

Once you've gone over it, you both need to decide how close your vision is and whether you can compromise when you don't. Don't move in together if they are some grey areas thinking they'll resolve on their own. They rarely do and just get worse.

What PP said. Start the 'team' off by working out whether you and DP want compatible home lives. Living with someone else's parenting can be SO HARD. Have you spent enough time with DP and his DC to get a sense of whether things are compatible in that way?

If he's a "jump when ex/DC calls" type of guy, does he expect you to jump too? Is he going to respect your way of doing things too and your priorities? These are the kind of expectations that need to be unpacked.

Re: ex - we have always had a 'flexible' arrangement like you describe. The problem is, it totally depends on how well the adults are getting on, whether it's a problem. Right now fine as we are all civil. Used to be really fraught though. Ex refusing to look after her own DC when I was giving birth springs to mind.

There’s no right or wrong IMO. It’s simply personal opinion.

My exp had a strict court order - bluntly, I think it’s hideous for him and his children. I also think it’s deeply sad that two adults who had children together have to turn to a court of law to ‘decide’ how much time their children get with each parent, including FaceTimes. I appreciate why it’s there and also appreciate that for so many NRP’s, it ensures regular contact.

My exh and I? We have structure and routine. However we have flexibility, which is lovely. With notice we rearrange contact evenings (due to work or personal commitments). Of course if either of us have prior (personal) commitments we refuse.
But equally if we want to book something with our DC (like I have just booked for my dc and I for this December), on what is typically the others contact day, we do. Zero drama. That works for us.
The key here is that we both can say no it doesn’t work for me (and regularly do). So it’s boundaried and respectful flexibility.

I’m sharing the above so you appreciate why (as someone with flexibility), your partner may see your court order as ‘rigid’. What you need to figure out however (as many have said), what does his ‘flexibility’ look like.

Because there are many examples here where it is not boundaried. When a partner/ husband will agree to having children, despite having plans with their own partner. Or not (critically) respecting their partners needs for adult alone time.

Flexibility is fine, so long as the partner can equally respect (and prioritise) their partners needs for intimacy and adult time.

Regards your wider ‘family’. I think your partner is right to treat the two families as separate. You and your children will have your needs. Him and his will have theirs.

I personally think this notion of ‘blended’ takes years and lots of time and space. Even with time it may not happen. A lot depends on the children’s personalities. The exes. And how the two adults can work as a team/ communicate when the inevitable issues between children arise.

@sassbott I have a court order with my ex but it works more like what you've described. So for example the agreement says alternate weekends and half the summer holidays so he is able to plan to take the kids away for a holiday knowing I can't stop him. My new partner doesn't have such an arrangement and I honestly believe she would stop that kid from coming on holiday with us. We have flexibility outside of the court order, I dropped them up a couple of days early over xmas and he's going to have them half of feb half term too. Had them a couple of extra days during lockdown and homeschools them so I can work. We live in different cities so it kind of needs to be structured. He lives in a covid hotspot and I'm very nervous about them travelling there, but I can't stop them - so he has predictability. Does that make sense? Whereas my new partner has nothing. The ex has stopped him seeing the kid all through lockdown, I don't think she'd allow her to come on a holiday with us, I'm not sure he's ever once had her at Christmas. So I see the court order as a minimum to build on, if he had one he could insist on the holidays and his share of Xmas for example. Our court order was more because he wouldn't agree on collect/drop off arrangements that didn't impact my work rather than period of time with them.

@Tigertealeaves the comment about giving birth is the kind of thing I'm worried about! I'm very independent and self sufficient, and have been a single parent for a long time, in a shit relationship before that where I just got on with it with the kids. But there are going to be times when I'm going to need him and doing it by yourself constantly when there is someone else available becomes a bit soul destroying. Not every day stuff but birth, when kids are very sick, I'm expecting a family death and funeral soon, and if I'm going to be in a partnership I want it to be with someone who can be there for me through these things not jumping to their exes whims.

A small and petty but irritating example is on my bday weekend we were supposed to be away, lockdown happened so we stayed local. We had to interrupt our plans to drop a car seat to her at a particular time. There's absolutely no reason why her mum (who owns the car it was going in) couldn't have popped by to grab it, or she could have walked round, or got an Uber. The exes mum seems like she's really nice so I'm sure she could have collected it and wouldn't have minded and she had to drive past his house to get to the ex anyway. I explained I was not keen and suggested these options but he insisted that we postpone our lunch and afternoon plans to do it for her. She has cancelled contact many times for reasons ranging from pandemics to ear infections, then claimed she was having a nervous breakdown and needed to break nhs self isolation for just 24 hours of respite. The nervous breakdown had disappeared the next day and she's not sought help for it at any other time. She let him see his daughter again between lockdowns, until she found out we'd met up and then she was only allowed to go if he didn't see us and she wasn't allowed in soft play or swimming or various other things that we did together - every time we did something new that thing was banned.

I think I'm finding it hard because my ex is a twat but he does his thing and I do mine, we swap things where we can but we stick to agreements once we've made them allowing us both to plan, and we don't hear from each other aside from that

@Noncommittalagain to be honest, yes I'd see the car seat thing as a red flag as he put his ex's slight convenience above your birthday meal. Not cool.

Based on the post I just responded to of yours on another thread I definitely would not move in with him!! He has form for disregarding you even on your special days. So what are the chances that he will show regard for what you and your DC want in a living situation?

It's a huge drain to inherit someone else's chaos. I've learned that the hard way.

@Tigertealeaves that was a different husband 😜 (I was married, now divorced - the new partner is the dad of this kid)

The car seat thing really got to me. In itself it's a tiny thing and I wouldn't normally care about popping round and dropping something off but because it was my bday and because it would have been SO easy for her mum to pick it up, it really made me think about where I'd stand in the pecking order in future. Obviously kids come first in general terms but telling someone to collect their own car seat (or buy their own so this doesn't keep happening) is just basic boundaries.

In general I'm the one with biggest chaos - I've had court hearings for divorce and custody, the FMH is still on the market, my kids have been subject to a social services investigation after school raised some concerns about their dad. But these things all just mumble along in the background and don't impact him - it doesn't affect the time I have with my kids or when they're at their dads, we can plan and have a predictable schedule. He doesn't have any of that chaos but also has no consistency. I'd rather have predictable chaos than inconsistency...