Life after SP / blended relationship breakdown

[sassbott]

So I thought I’d post this as I’ve noticed on some of the threads, a fair few relationships (in the step parenting category) have broken down. What does life look like for some of you post that breakdown?

I’ll share my high level story. Separated from exh some 7-8 years ago. Wasn’t my choice, but got on with the divorce. Didn’t ever need court, all done through mediation. Exh and I are very amicable and children move between us circa 60/40%. My children are now teen/ pre- teen (just). Zero drama and on the whole my co-parenting life is peaceful.

Met my exp 5 years ago. He had been separated for well over 18 months, divorce nearly finalised when we met. Lovely honeymoon period initially, then the EXW found out about us and it really hit the fan.

Despite that we introduced the children first to one another then to each other about 12 months into the relationship. My children have a good relationship with him (my exh is supportive so no conflict). I had no meaningful relationship with his children (due largely to the EXW not giving the children permission to bond).

We never lived together or mixed financials. But 5 years is a long time of ‘trying’. Anyways, it’s over. Has been for a good while and I sit here and think what’s next?

Bluntly? I don’t want to date a man with young children. I don’t want to date a man who has even a smidge of conflict with their exwife. I can’t even contemplate introducing anyone to my children again (certainly until they are young adults themselves). So I just think, is this it? Am I now going to be single until my children are grown up?

It’s ok btw, if that is how it turns out. I have a great career, good friends, hobbies (pre covid) I enjoy. I guess it just makes me sad that I’ll be alone (in an intimate sense) for the forseeable future.

What has anyone else’s story been who found themselves in my situation?

The situations described above all seem too common. You dont just end up "supporting" your DP in various ways, you end up basing your life around his children and ex.. At your and your children's expense.
In my case the ex wasn't bad, but found SC real hard work: one was always claiming that I was unfair to her whilst frequently bullying my own child; the other a stroppy disrespectful teen. Issues escalating with ExDP's attitude and forever "putting them first" to keep them happy (and for fear they might refuse to visit). To make things worse, they went from coming EOW to being with us almost all the time, and this is something I couldn't cope with mentally. I feel guilty saying all this, but equally I know I couldn't have gone on living that way.

Huge life lessons for me. I had hope, now I have cold, hard reality. One of my best friends (she has no children of her own) met a guy with his own children and a fairly high conflict exwife. I told her to run. She didn’t. And she has effectively been stuck in a completely dysfunctional on/ off relationship since. Because he’s too absorbed in the conflict with the exwife.

If I could go back and redo the first date with my exp. I would see the red flags (he was open about how high conflict his divorce proceedings were), and I would simply have left it there.

For me, I think the only way I forsee meeting anyone is naturally. Via a hobby, or someone in my network. I would want to get to know someone really well before plunging into something serious.
The thought of dating apps makes me

Oh yes, the thought of those dating apps, yuck.

Re: the conflict with exW thing...

With my DP, he said he was ‘firm friends’ with his ex and I thought it seemed great. Except it became apparent that it had zero to do with co-parenting (they never actually seemed to get round to making any productive discussions about the dc) the proper separation into two separate parents never really happened. It’s something he is only grappling with now, ten years post separation.

So who knows what the answer is. In relationships we try, and sometimes our fingers get burned. That’s the name of the game. But if it doesn’t work out with DP I won’t be rushing into the man-with-kids thing again.

@FallingStar21 I agree. Financial is just one of the more visible ways the disjoints can show. And the reason I’ve highlighted it is in hope that it may help others. Women (in the eyes of society) are meant to be nurturing/ generous/ child orientated. Not money orientated. And when I first started to resent how little ‘financial’ generosity was being reciprocated, I actually felt ashamed of myself. I remember thinking that I should count myself lucky to be in the financial position I was and actually I should be generous. Until it came to a crunch point (a bit like magdas Ex saying his job was more important because it provided), with my ex intimating that his money was being spent on much worthier pursuits than my ‘wanting a nice holiday or nice meals’. I felt even worse.

Then I had a bit of a word with myself and thought ‘hold on, you’ve worked so hard and continue to work so hard. You have dreams and aspirations, and because your partner has these very real issues, you should somehow give those aspirations up? Or feel guilty about them? No!’

From that point on it was liberating. I chose what to spend where I wanted to. With the mindset that what I did I would do with my own generosity and not expect anything back. But I also made absolute zero apologies for how I chose to spend my money. I completely stopped compromising and expecting him to change.

Since then we did not holiday together. I think there was one night where I organised and picked up the tab for a very nice night out, because I wanted to do it. And I did one joint thing with his Dc and mine, because I was prepared to see what a joint outing with all the DC’s would look like. Transpired it was nowhere near as enjoyable had it just been me and my lot.

*For me, I think the only way I forsee meeting anyone is naturally. Via a hobby, or someone in my network. I would want to get to know someone really well before plunging into something serious.
The thought of dating apps makes me *

Me too! I’m not going to go out looking for someone on dating apps. I’m sure people have met the love of their lives on them, but it’s not for me. Far too many people to filter through, will probably be a fair few weirdos on there and then it’s the constant messages off random people I can imagine you’d get. It all just feels too... forced?

If I met someone just by chance in person, that’s the way I’d want to do it. It’s more exciting and special imo.

I think I’m going to be single for a while yet For the next 5-10 years anyway. And if I never meet anyone else I’ll be ok. It’s better than the alternative life I would have had if I stayed with ex.
I’ll go on lots of holidays when I’m older and get a couple of cats And enjoy my adult children’s company of course. And if I have any grandchildren I’ll be able to enjoy them too. Doesn’t sound all that bad

I feel sad at your stories and the others on this board. So much unnecessary hurt because people can't or won't put the children first.

And by that, I am absolutely NOT referring to the step parents. The ball is firmly in the court of both the actual parents. End of.

Every time a parent is too weak or scared to instil respect or boundaries in their DC; every threat to withhold contact; every time one parent badmouths the other; every time the DC are encouraged to regard themselves as centre of the universe by never having to consider others; every unreasonable conflict over money - all of this will cause the children to suffer if not now then later as they grow up conflicted and/or unprepared to navigate their way into adult life. Yet none of this is anything a step parent can control. Then we're dealt the double whammy that not only are we expected to put up with any of the above or be roundly criticised if we do express an opinion on how it affects us, but society insists on picking apart the step parents' reaction to all the dysfunction that surrounds them instead of looking at who's actually responsible in the first place.

Even if someone in a step parenting role is acting in a way that's genuinely not best for the children, the parent who's chosen them as their partner is the only reason why the DC are being exposed to that person. Again, society likes to label the bad apples as "this is how step parents behave" rather than the more accurate "some people are naturally arseholes and they happen to be in a step parenting role because the child's parent has facilitated it."

I'm still with my DH albeit pretty much out the other side. However the lasting effects have messed up my mental health and I'm still struggling and having weekly counselling sessions to try and process everything that's gone on. I still waver about our relationship sometimes because I fear I'll never fully recover unless I can walk away and put it all behind me. Still pondering that one tbh.

Following this with interest. I’m not quite there yet but things are not going at all well at the moment and I expect to be on my own again with my DC - as I don’t think the situation is salvageable.

Out the other side I would see myself on my own for a very long time. I don’t think I can do it to my DC again - to take the risk of getting them involved in relationship that doesn’t work out - and it’s so hard to know until you’re already in too deep. I really thought this could work for the first 2-3 years until doubts and concerns started to really set in about dynamics between dc and sdc, differences in parenting styles/lack of boundaries from a DP fearful of looking not as fun as his ex, and concerns about finances - for various reasons I think I would be able to provide better for my DC on my own - it feels like there are too many compromises/sacrifices which are in no way balanced out by the positives of this living arrangement.
If anything in future, it would have to be an adult relationship on my own time not involving the kids, and not going near anyone with a toxic ex or at home children. I’ve never done online dating, before current DP I was with exdh for 19 years - OLD was not really a thing back then and just don’t think I could do it! Would prefer to get to know some one naturally and slowly - or just stay by myself and keep busy with life with DC, work, friends and hobbies - enough to keep busy and happy enough I hope

@MyCatHatesEverybody do you keep your own property, is that how you’ve managed?

@LatentPhase DH and I do live together but I moved out and rented a place of my own for a couple of years when things were bad with DSC when the ex started badmouthing us . We wouldn't have survived as a couple if I couldn't have stepped away from the drama.

I'm divorced and no longer involved with ex or DSC. I think a lot of it boils down to the entitlement of men and the role of women. In my case he felt he was perfectly entitled to move into my house and subsequently call the shots when it came to parenting and how our life had to revolve around his children because he felt guilty or whatever. But before that entitled to have a relationship when he had very young children and a high conflict Ew. Yes I have learned a lot and feel like my children suffered emotionally too so I'm not dating. Maybe when they're young adults and got their own life but I agree, dating apps are a no no so I'm quite happy being a cat lady

Isn't it astonished how so many of us have basically had the same experience. I consider myself a fairly on the ball person & it's a source of bewilderment how I ended up in the situation I did.
@sassbott I'm not sure if exdp has dated since & I'm not sure where he'd find the time, seeing as he had minimal time for us! I'd like to say no woman would tolerate the carry on but I did so no doubt he will eventually find someone who will put up with all his crap the way I did!
Like the rest of you, I feel if I'm to meet someone it will be naturally, through work, hobbies, friends etc. But also, I'm happy to be a crazy dog lady.
It's funny - I have painting in my house that my exh gave me for my birthday years ago which I held onto because I love the actual painting. It's off a woman standing alone in a landscape that looks like Tuscany or somewhere similar & when he gave it to me he said that the woman reminded him of me & it's how he always saw me, & I could see what he meant. After all the s**t that we went through as a couple he still knew me better & made more of an effort to know me than my exdp EVER bothered doing.
Now I'm not lamenting my marriage for one minute, we were the wrong fit & I've made my peace with that. But nuggets of memory like that really drive home how thoughtless exdp was with my feelings; how he just expected me to be the version of me he wanted me to me - ie someone who would complement HIS life without him ever having to put himself out for me.
I know this is awful because I still do have feelings for him, but I kind of hate him also - & I never use the word hate!

Isn't it astonished how so many of us have basically had the same experience. I consider myself a fairly on the ball person & it's a source of bewilderment how I ended up in the situation I did.

It’s a constant source of bewilderment for me too.
How did I end up here? Why did I put up with so little for so long? I mean I have to do some work on myself (and I recognise this) about why I have tolerated this situation. Because the relationship did not meet my needs for a long time.

I think I was legitimately scared of being alone. Not meeting anyone again. That fear kept me holding on. That what I had was ‘ok’ enough to ry and make it work. When the old reality is, it wasn’t. I literally tolerated scraps. And because I was so open, when he fed me his lines (that came from pure entitlement), I was naive enough to internalise them.

Magda. I legitimately wish my ex a happy life. He deserves it. But. For what he has put me through? I think he is a deeply selfish human being. I don’t think I hate him. But I am very angry with him (and also with myself). I’m only one step away from hate. Which is why I called time on it. I would far rather look back with mild affection (there were some good things), than think of it all as abject waste of my life (also come close to that.)

Cherrydocs I agree re the entitlement of men. Whole heartedly, but I’d like to think, not all men are like this and we only see the extremes here.

@Lise756 I’m so sorry. If you want to post and if we can support let us know. It is hard though and none of us know / appreciate just how hard it can be until we’re in the thick of it.

@MyCatHatesEverybody I’m sorry to hear about the ongoing impact on your mental health.
It’s a theme here isn’t it? I wonder why we are left with these issues and the men (I assume) are left unaffected? Do they end up projecting their pain and issues onto us? Mine did, it was exhausting. I would somehow always end up being the issue. Astonishing really. Sad too.

@funinthesun19 doesn’t sound bad at all.

If I’m blunt, I’ll tell you how I feel after it all. Abused. The EXW abused my exp, via the children. He absorbed some of it, but of course that pain/ frustration spilled out to the person closest to him. Me.
She abused him and that resulted in him abusing me. Awful.

@sassbott yes, it is putting your life on hold, making sacrifices etc and some people may well be fine with it. But why should there be this expectation of complete selflessness (esp. from women)? Or worse, succumbing to being a door mat at your own home.. And then feeling guilty, while all he feels guilty about is the SC. Like you, now I can spend money on what i deem important without having to justify myself and that has felt like a returned freedom.

So many similar experiences expressed here, it’s so sad.
I believe I ended up where I am due to a powerful and catastrophic mix of:

• my OH’s guilty father syndrome, lack of self awareness and sense of entitlement to be in a victim’s role (‘I deserve unlimited understanding and support, look what I’m going through, poor me, it’s all done TO me, it’s not my fault, you have to understand it and be patient, your situation is nowhere near as bad as mine’).
• matched by my poor personal boundaries (I knew what kind of relationship I wanted but I constantly made allowances and went against my values), fear of being alone, being taught from an early age that I should put other people’s needs first (‘always nurture, be compassionate and supportive’).

I ended up feeling resentful, taken for granted and used.
I recognise my role in participating in this crazy dance.

I’m working on myself and I promised myself to:

• never again be a saviour, therapist, carer or mother to my OH. I keep asking myself: ‘is what he wants from me within partner’s role or is he asking for too much?’
• my hard earned money is primarily mine and my DC. I can contribute but I am not putting my finances in jeopardy. I flatly refuse to pay for anything that is beyond what’s fair.
• instead of chasing my OH for change I’ve decided to focus on myself and DC. He is now 100% responsible for changing his life so that he can become the stable, mature, supportive partner that he’s always told me he aspires to be....

It’s a gamble and I may soon end up being alone but what’s the alternative? How many more years of this madness? I feel broken hearted already and innocence is lost.

It’s been immensely helpful to read here about other people’s experiences and @sassbott thank you for starting this thread.

I agree 100% re the entitlement of men.

Ditto: men expecting women to do the emotional work in the relationship - which extends to managing the flak being chucked over the emotional fence from the first family. And being vilified for it at the same time.

When you look at it like that.. the fact that so many blended families are an impossible mix is less surprising.

My DP seems to understand (now) that it’s not my mess reverberating, it’s his. That’s the only thing keeping me hanging on. For now.

I wonder if there's a common theme that the men weren't physically or emotionally or financially completed separated and living their life independently whilst co-parenting or attempting to coparent. Mine was not actually divorced (I would definitely walk away now) and was living in a spare room (presented himself as looking for a family home for his DC) so he never established himself as a single parent in the same way I was (working full-time and children in wraparound care, own home). So when he put himself on the dating site all those years ago when we met I definitely did a lot of projection (he must be single and independent if he's on sites and ready to commit to a new relationship) but it wasn't true. He knowingly and selfishly (and abusively) brought all his entanglements into my household and then we all had to have his children and his exw as the focus in our family. I believed his words not his actions for a long time. But in summary, men put themselves out there when they're not ready for another relationship because they haven't sorted things out from their first family and this causes second marriages to fail. Yes if we put up with the scraps we would still be dancing to everyone else's tune, we also have in common we're not willing to stand for this level of entitlement and abuse

He was in a spare room in a friend's house, not the original family home I mean. But he presented this as a short term arrangement while he was looking for a place he could have his children (which he never found after months and moved in with muggings here after talking at length about family life and committed relationships etc etc)

@CherryDocsInYrBalls

This is such a key point, I think.

These men are not as (emotionally) separated as they would have us believe.

I’ve said recently to DP that he has remained tangled up in a family dynamic. And the situation makes me feel like ‘the other woman’. He hates that but it’s made him think, I believe... because there’s some truth in it.

Hi all, this thread has been enlightening in so many ways and I would like to offer my two cents.

Even though I never met my ex's DC, so I was never a step parent, I recognize so many of the dynamics in my own relationship with a recently separated man with DC.

Like many others, he had split up from his wife but hadn't emotionally separated properly. They were still playing at being "the best of friends" and doing family things "for the kids". He bent over backwards for her, I think she had the upper hand in their marriage and the dynamic hadn't changed post split. According to him, he just wanted to keep the peace, but I think he wasn't ready to detach himself from his role of caring husband and father within the family unit, so he carried on doing the same things post separation. They lived apart, but their lives were so entangled that there was no room at all for a new partner.

Throughout the relationship I was way too understanding and empathic. I should have sent him packing as soon as I realized how entangled he still was with his first family (of course initially he presented an idyllic view of the most amicable and easiest arrangement ever, it took me time to scratch beneath the surface and see thing for what they were!). My own poor boundaries kept me there for 18 months in the vain hope that things were going to magically improve, but that never happened. In the end he dumped me unceremoniously as he suddenly realized he wasn't ready for a serious relationship (which he had pushed for!) and the DC needed too much from him and "it wasn't fair on me".

This experience has left me scarred, cynical and untrusting. It's been nearly a year and I have yet to start dating properly, and I still think about him and the dysfunction he brought to my life nearly daily. I genuinely feel like his entitlement to enter a new relationship, even though he wasn't ready and had nothing to offer, has taken a piece of me that I will never recover back.

Sorry for the long post, but it feels good to share with people who understand the pain!

The red flags are usually there Welcome, but we believe this dynamic they present, hopefully we will spot them next time, although I'm in no rush whatsoever. Mine did the opposite, although he wasn't divorced (laughable now) he really pushed for marriage (love bombing) and we did get married, but I feel now like I was conned into it. He wanted the infrastructure of a home and family in which to Disney dad, while I made all the compromises and sacrifices, and propped us all up financially, because I thought we were a blended family, but we weren't as far as he was concerned. I saw that and divorced him and the relief is immense, although there is a lot of emotional fallout for my dc

Well ladies I don't feel like I have any excuse for ending up where I did in that I had dated a lot before meeting exdp & had a serious relationship prior to him which I ended due to the man in question having a young child & a nightmare ex! Oh the irony!
When I met exdp I honestly thought I'd been around the block a bit, knew what I wanted & could recognise a good man. Exdp was also well divorced from his exw, had dated a bit & had lived alone (when not having his dc) for ages.
He told me his marriage had been very bad but the split & divorce were mutual & amicable (bar the quibbling over finances) & to this day I believe that to be true. I thought the fact that his dc were teens & the same age as mine was a positive & as I've always gotten on great with teens I saw no red flags.
Things were great to start with & it was only when we got serious that all hell broke loose at his end. At first I thought maybe the exw had developed depression or had suffered a breakdown but after probing exdp said she was now behaving the way she had during their marriage. He said that she had seemed so much happier post divorce that he reckoned it was being married to him that had made her so unhappy & aggressive.
Now I was beginning to see the red flags with the first being the fact that she had bullied him for years and he had let her do so. Maybe that's when I should have left but like a the good caring woman I was programmed to be I thought I could help him.
Second red flag was realising he'd also been heavily bullied by his own (deceased) dm who sounded like a very bitter woman. Maybe I should have left then but he got on so well with his sisters I thought it can't have been that damaging - I was wrong.
Third red flag was realising he NEVER confronted his dc, he walked away from conflict with them & never said no to them. This was again however very subtle. They were not outgoing teens and never did anything obviously 'bad' - ditching school, staying out late, drinking or the like - so he thought they were perfect, responsible young men, especially in comparison to mine with their nose piercings & craft beers & long hair lol.
He could never see that their 'bad' behaviour was subtle & insidious & involved playing both parents off against each other, being rude to me & my dc but masking it in 'woe is us' tears, manipulating exdp around finances & always ringing with complaints about their dm on the weekends exdp & I had together thus upsetting exdp for the whole weekend. All this sort of crept up on me & became exhausting.
I do sometimes wonder if he'd have been like this anyway to a certain extent or was it mainly because he was a divorced dad. I came to see how easily he was manipulated. He was an astute businessman & would never have been manipulated in that sphere, but emotionally he was a very easy target - for his dm, his exw, his dc & even his extended family.
Now the really weird part is that bending to everyone he did absolutely did NOT stretch to me. I never wanted him to bend but I would have liked him to compromise. It's like he knew on some subconscious level he couldn't quite identify, that everyone else was walking all over him & so I - the new person in his life, his new beginning so to speak - was not going to be allowed to do the same thing. It's like I got all the "No's" he should have been giving everyone else, & I got all the frustration that he really should have been directing at others.
I have mentioned before that he went to therapy & things did get better. And to be honest I don't give up easily & I would have struck around (all relationships whether there's dc involved or not have to deal with past baggage) except that the one area he was still pretty blind to was the dc. He had gotten to the point where he could acknowledge their weaknesses & acknowledge the weaknesses in their parenting, but he still did not seem capable of taking strong & steady action & I had lost faith that he would ever walk the walk with them.
He would say things like "we'll have to buy a much smaller house as I can see some of the dc wanting to live with us as adults". My response was always "I'm capable of saying no to my dc (which I am) so you're really talking about your dc here & you need to practice the word No starting from now". But it never happened, so I left. And the dc being so manipulative meant that their even more manipulative dm was always hovering around the edges of 'us'.
I know this sounds a bit mad but I often thought what he needed (whether he was with me or not) was a 6 month contract on an oil rig or similar (with 6 months therapy thrown in lol) so he would have the physical distance to break the pattern of habit he was in with the ex & dc; 6 months away from them all so he could gain a bit of perspective & reset himself. I always noticed that he would make progress (particularly after a therapy session) but after a weekend with dc would be in bad form & right back at square one.
I know he was the parent & the adult but I did feel the older the dc were getting the more emotionally abusive (like their dm & exdp's own dm) they were becoming & he just accepted it from them.
Not sure what I'm really getting at here & sorry for the long post but feels like a good vent even if no one reads it lol.

@Magda72 your sons sound pretty cool

This thread prompted me to dig out my copy of Stepmonster yesterday and reread the section about the man's behaviour in stepfamilies. I'm sure the way some men behave in these situations is driven by entitlement but the book describes the main drivers behind conflict are usually fear, guilt and unrealistic expectations in trying to blend the unblendable.

It describes how men often fail to nip what they perceive as "small issues" in the bud such as manners or letting their DC ignore the SM, which sets up a "my wife vs my kids" dynamic. It inevitably continues to escalate because the more the SM asks for boundaries or to have her needs considered occasionally the more guilty the man feels at not putting their child's wants first every time because of a misplaced sense that that's what a good parent should do, instead of balancing everyone's needs.

I guess it also explains why NRPs are seemingly happy to jump whenever the ex wants yet will push back with their new partner, because doing what the ex wants isn't making him "choose" between her and the children.

I know my DH initially fell into the FOG trap as opposed to being entitled. What makes things even worse is that society tells step parents there must be something wrong with them for wanting their needs considered every once in a while so you end up fighting against it and trying to fix your perfectly valid feelings until you snap and everyone assumes you're the bad guy. It's impossible to predict these dynamics before experiencing them for yourself which makes the "you knew what you were getting into" even more ridiculous.

@FallingStar21 I can agree about the freedom aspect. It was very freeing for me when I made certain decisions mentally regards finances.

@Malena77, that’s a pretty accurate summary of how I fell into it tbh. Especially the part of going against my own intrinsic values (of what I deemed fair & acceptable).

@CherryDocsInYrBalls and @LatentPhase I think there is something in my situation re emotional entanglement, that they wrap up around ‘it’s my children.’ Dig deeper and it’s very rare that all men (I think) have clear and boundaried relationships with their EW’s. My exp would check emails/ texts from her all the time, the minute they landed in fact. They hid their emotional attachment in conflict around the children (she incited it, he would engage on the deliberate bait). The next woman will benefit hugely from the years it took me to ask him to be vaguely boundaried. Hopefully she won’t wake to him staring at his phone as he reads another rant filled email from the EXW vs. paying attention to the woman he has in his bed.

@WelcomeBackAmelia I’m sorry to hear about your experience. So sad.

@cherry how are your DC adapting to the divorce? Fortunately for me and my DC, I had gradually removed them from contact. My eldest is resilient and not remotely bothered about the absence of the ex. My youngest may be more impacted, but ultimately I hope they will be ok. Time will tell. Their father is very hands on and involved so from that perspective I’m not too worried.

@Magda72 thank you for sharing that.
It’s heartbreaking really isn’t it when you break these things down. I think you’re being unduly hard on yourself.
What I find really interesting is how he never bent with you. That’s made me stop and think about just how difficult I found dealing with my exp at times. His EXW forced him / had him completely over a barrel re his children. Highly difficult. She pretty much (as I said) abused him and used the family courts as a mecanism to do so. As I said earlier up, that abuse then fell into me. the frustration at being made to dance to her tune, was taken out on me. He would become annoyed about things that made me think ‘what?’. But when you phrase it the way you have, it makes me think, was he harder / more unyielding with me because he felt that any compromises made with me were just another woman making him dance to her tune? I had never looked at it that way.

I actually never thought he needed a break from his DC. He needed a break / clean break from me. As all I was doing was enabling his behaviour within a relationship. Do I think it will change with another woman? Sadly no, I don’t.

@MyCatHatesEverybody I read that book once years ago. I don’t know what the answers to these situations are. Sadly I think unless the NRP’s seek counselling themselves, there’s very little the SP’a coming into these situations can do. As you say, because ultimately we are seen to be working against the children and asking the men to choose.

God I used to be so full of hope and optimism.