'Argumentative' SS9

[Wherearemyshoesplease]

For a bit of context ive been with my partner for 2.5 years and we moved in together around 6 months ago. He has a DS9 and I have no children. DP has his son every other weekend and also dinner twice every week. I like my step son, he's not a bad kid. I've noticed this before but it's more apparent since we've been living together. SS9 has to be right about everything. He's been here the last 3 days and to be honest I've found it quite tiring. You could say to him the sky is blue and you'd be wrong. He doesn't necessarily 'argue' with you but will try and shut you down immediately. We'll be watching TV and DP will say something like did you see that dog over there? 'No, there wasn't a dog'. Yes, there was. 'No there wasn't, if you carry on saying there was then I'll leave the room'. He also gets wound up very easily, in situations you wouldn't expect someone to get annoyed.

I was really looking for tips on how to deal with this. As I said before, he's not a bad kid and we get on well but I don't have any children myself so I'm not too sure what the best approach would be? It's exhausting having a basic conversation with him.

@SandyY2K Yes we have Sky That was just an example of the kind of thing he says.

From what I know, SS only has one friend and pre covid didn't really have any play dates so it's always been him and DP or with his Mum and her partner. I did wonder whether the lack of social interaction (outside of school) was one of the reasons he is the way he is. He's had a few play dates with my nephew who is a year younger than him and SS got very wound up with him and snapped at him quite a bit (my nephew isn't actually annoying at all - well he's still a child but he's very laid back).

@AnneLovesGilbert The plan was to have children at some point. There is no rush though and I'm not 100% sure anymore.

It’s one of my brothers Sandy. I do honestly love him to bits but long ago we agreed that we enjoy up to 3 days of each other’s company and once that’s up we’ll inevitably start to piss each other off and have a barny so we limit it to that. I don’t argue with anyone, DH is incredibly reasonable and we barely ever disagree, but my god that brother aggravates me. Utmost respect for putting up with your DH being like this. My brother is recently divorced

I would say that he’s definitely pushing his boundaries. I think how this is handled comes down to parenting choices, and that’s clear by the different responses on this board.

I agree it’s common behaviour and associated with pushing boundaries. Do I think it’s something that needs handling? Yes. Categorically yes.
My youngest went through a phase of this, of being contrary just so they could be. I did not ignore it. I did not pick my battles. What I did is tackle it head on and tell them that if this is how they continued to behave, they would find themselves without friends, because no one finds it either amusing or funny to be around anyone who continually acts this way. Because it isn’t funny or relaxing. It’s deeply irritating attention seeking behaviour. I dealt with it as such and nipped it in the bud. Years later my youngest is much better but will still occasionally strop out of the room. I ignore it completely and eventually he returns, and all is forgotten. Behaviour is lessening as he gets older.

Do I think pandering to it (or laughing it off) makes it better? No. Tail wagging dog - that’s quite powerful for a child. He won’t suddenly stop.

I would also add that I told him that if he enjoyed lively conversation so much, that there are ways of having healthy debates and stating why you have a different point of view. And we could have lots of debates and he was welcome to having any point of view, so long as he could articulate why he had the view. And then respect the fact that others may still not agree with his view.

I ended those convos with the fact that I thought people who were contrary just for the sake of it came across as not very clever. So if he wanted to be regarded as not very smart, to continue arguing for the sake of it.

That also hit home. The debating thing actually became a mecanism for halting the argument in its tracks. Either they engage with the ‘why’ they think a certain way or they don’t. If they don’t, I would cut the conversation dead. They can’t argue if there is no one engaging with them.

@sassbott It doesn't even turn in to a debate! He literally doesn't talk at all unless it's to tell someone they're wrong. It's so tiring.

I would find that beyond tedious. How is your partner not dealing with this? I mean in the nicest possible way, it’s not your job to tackle. Some of the conversations I had with my child were very ‘robust’ to say the least. But I could have them with him as he’s my child and we have that bond.

It’s no one else’s place (aside from my exh) and my exh worked with me to tackle it too.

It sounds exhausting, you have my sympathies.

Actually I think sassbott has a point, particularly given he has no friends. As a parent that lack of friendship amongst peers would concern me. He's either behaving like this (and no one wants to hang out with someone who is bossy and always insists on being right) or because he is like this and hasn't made friends he also isn't learning social skills.

@Beamur I'm not sure he's learnt the social skills needed to make friends - he has a few other 'quirks' which makes me wonder if it's all linked. Not that I'm in a position to make any kind of diagnosis!

I can imagine how frustrating this is... a lot of kids go through a phase where they are quite defiant and contrary about things... but there are times where it can seem more than a phase and I would worry myself that it's becoming a more ingrained issue.
Over the years I've taught quite a few children who exhibit defiance above and beyond what all preteens and teens go through. Some
of it is a case of personality and/or environment. But some have had strategies written into their education plan (for those with SEND) when the behaviour as begun to detrimentally affect education, relationships with peers etc. As many of the other commenters have illustrated, how to deal with it varies from child to child. For some, playing it down, not engaging in the debate/drama works best as they learn that doing this doesn't get them what they are after - and instead we can make a conscious decision to draw attention positively when they engage in things non argumentatively. Likewise, I've seen other children where the strategy that has been recommended and works best for them is to not down play it but acknowledge it calmly whilst making it clear where the boundaries are regarding interrupting, etc etc.

It's a tricky one as I've always got the feeling they have advised what works best on an individual level but also taking into account the needs of the other children/adults in the family.

At the extreme end of things I have taught maybe 2/3 children who have been diagnosed with ODD.

Wishing you and your family all the best - you will find what works for you all xx

Every boy in my family has been like that at this age...I know it doesn't stop it being less frustrating but seems totally normal. Personally I'd just say 'okay, bye then' if one of the boys in my family said they were going to leave the room if I said it again 😂 we have a very argumentative nearly 9 year old at the minute...sometimes we call him out on it, sometimes we argue the case back, sometimes we just let it go over our head. Always trying to remind myself that he's just acting his age. I guess this reply is just about knowing you aren't alone with the argumentative 9 year old!

DP has said previously that SS has always been this way so it definitely seems it's his personality. It's always been a huge problem getting him to have a bath (even when he was little according to DP) and he will sit on the floor and shout that he's not doing it. He'll brush his teeth perfectly fine for 5 days in a row and then the next day he'll point blank refuse to brush them for no reason at all. He slaps DP on the arm / leg if DP says no to him. He'll only play computer games and refuse to do anything else.

As I said previously, it's not my place to get involved. It's just been a bit of an eye opener since we've lived together.

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice, it's appreciated.

I’ve been there but I also want to say it’s easy to be critical of the child when they are not your own! I know this from experience. You have more patience with your own even when you try not to be biased.

It sounds like maybe your oh needs to take some time out with his son and have a good talk and try some different techniques with him.

@Wherearemyshoesplease I would agree with others who say it's age & personality related. However, what @sassbott says is extremely relevant. I too had a dc like this & I approached it the same way as sassbot. He's now 24, can run verbal rings around anyone (would make a great lawyer/politician lol) but knows how to listen & respect other people's viewpoints.
My exdp's youngest was also like this. He was an extremely intelligent kid who was right about a lot of things but not everything! I first met him when he was 9 & it was mildly irritating. It went unchecked & by the time we split (he was then 14) he was a major pain in the arse - no other way of putting it.
He could not be told & would sneer/shout down everyone else's opinion & if proven wrong would still deny, all the while sulking. His dm & teachers only gave him validation & as exdp is not a very confident person verbally he would just acquiesce or laugh. If I or my kids (or even his brothers) disagreed with him he would turn really mean & often resorted to kicking and biting his older brothers & again, they & exdp would just laugh at him. He constantly butted in on conversations & would literally correct you on everything you said.
While your dss's behaviour may be somewhat normal now, if left unchecked it won't be.
I'm a plain speaker & tackled my ds directly - explaining why I wouldn't tolerate such an attitude & I feel it worked.
Fwiw exdp's son also didn't have many friends.

I don't have any children myself but I do have a lot of nephews and nieces so I am around kids a fair bit (before covid). DP laughs SS' behaviour off and doesn't seem to think there is any issue so I know it won't be tackled.

Just to depress you - my brother did this and still does this aged 50!

It is monumentally tiring and I have given up counting the number of times I have told him to shut up unless he can say something positive.

I just remembered that when I moved in with my DP, my son was 8 and while he was somewhat argumentative before, this move has been a shock to him and his behaviour became worse. I only realized that it must have been because of the change much later, looking back. I guess it's sort of an anxiety because things change and maybe it gives him the impression of having some sort of power.
So maybe his father (and/or you if you feel close to him) could make more efforts to reassure him?
Another thing is to argue it takes two, I'm argumentative too, so on some occasions, I would just not engage. Other times, I explained to him that it's very unpleasant for people when someone constantly constests what the're saying. And well, on other occasions, we would argue...
His behaviour improuved over time, I have no issues with that now.

I have a very argumentative son, who is absolutely relentless in his provocation and also has poor social skills and other quirks. I came across the phrase “you don’t have to go to every argument you’re invited to” and it’s really reframed how I approached it. Before I felt like I had to not let him get away with being argumentative by proving him wrong but actually the best way to retain control as an adult is to choose the extent to which I engage. I no longer get irritated and I view his behaviour very differently. It’s also changed how he now behaves, although I have noticed it definitely ramps up when he is unsettled or anxious.