Renegotiating conctact arrangements - am I being unreasonable?

[Anna8888]

OK - I need some second opinions to get my strength back for the negotiating table (or to decide to lay down arms).

We are currently renegotiating contact for my two stepsons (12, 10). The outcome is expected to be that, during term time, they will spend every Wednesday and Thursday night at our house and every Monday and Tuesday night at their mother's. They will spend every other weekend (Friday evening to Monday morning) with us.

Holidays will be split 50:50, though in reality they will spend a little more time with us as my partner can take more time off work than his ex-wife.

My partner's ex-wife works 4 days a week in a management job that requires quite a bit of travel. She would like us to agree to have the boys whenever she has to travel for work and that her travels must unavoidably be scheduled for the nights that the boys are supposed to be with her.

My partner's ex-wife has a full-time live-in nanny who cannot have sole charge of the boys overnight (she is too gormless). My partner pays the nanny's salary.

I think that my partner's ex-wife ought to change her very gormless (and wildly underemployed) nanny for a more responsible person who would be competent enough to manage the very flexible childcare arrangements my partner's ex-wife requires. It is a pain in the neck for me to always leave my diary open just in case the boys are going to be here and I want it to end so that I can plan ahead in my life.

What do you think? AIBU?

BrownSuga - I make as much use of the nanny as possible eg I never do pick-ups or drop-offs - if my partner can't do them, the nanny does them - I don't do the boys' clothes laundry from when they are with us but send it back to her.

However, she's pretty bad at her job (and the mother doesn't do anything much) so I end up doing lots of clothes shopping, hairdressers' appointments, nit-removal and all the joys of caring for children and I certainly don't want her in my house as she doesn't meet my standards in any way.

My feeling too is that the mother ought to have a cleaning lady and an au pair but I can hardly organise the running of her household. I can, however refuse to pick up the pieces of the household she isn't running.

Surfermum - do you think that it is reasonable for the mother to have taken on additional responsibilities at work (which she has just done, hence the reorganisation of contact) with additional travel, without making any additional provision for childcare, and expecting me to pick up the pieces?

No, it isn't reasonable just to do it without discussing the implications with others involved and getting their agreement to pick up the slack.

You sound really angry about his x, and I suspect that you don't really mean to come across like the boys are a huge inconvenience. What about your dp's part in it? Do you feel put upon by him as well as his x?

I'm not unsympathetic. I have spent hours combing out nits from dsd's hair. She has turned up and given me a day's notice to get her a costume for the school play, or book day or whatever. I've organised every birthday party she has ever had. And I work and at the time her mum didn't. But I realised long ago that there was no point in me getting angry about what I was doing that her mum wasn't. I wasn't going to be able to change it, so I stopped wasting energy on getting annoyed about it, and instead just got on with what I needed to do because there was a little girl who needed things doing for her.

But you're right, you shouldn't have to put your life on hold just in case she needs you. I really don't see why you can't say you'll have them if you haven't made plans, but if you have then she'll have to make other arrangements. Would your dp support you with that?

Surfermum - I am angry that my partner's ex has a very busy life (of her own choosing ) and doesn't take proper responsibility for parts of it, in particular her children's welfare, and I get angry that my partner thinks that he must always step in and compensate for her shortcomings as a mother by offering our (not just his) services as an alternative .

I think that he should put his foot down. The boys have an incredibly cushy, spoilt life - they are the only two grandchildren of their mother's mother, and my partner's parents only have them and our daughter, and they have a maternal great-aunt with no grandchildren, and all those four people are also running around chauffeuring them to tennis, talmud torah etc, taking them to restaurants, buying them toys etc. But when it comes to chores no-one wants to do them and the nanny is useless and I end up getting landed with them .

On the having the boys if we haven't made plans - basically, the mother has no plan B if plan A (our house) fails. The grandparents don't do overnight babysitting and the mother has no brothers and sisters. So that's why I think she needs to replace the nanny, so that she has a childcare solution.

I do think it's good that your dp is prepared to be there for the boys when their mother isn't. It would be awful for them if neither of them bothered. But I can see how you feel put upon.

Why can't any of these relatives have them when she has to go away?

Surfermum - their maternal grandmother has never been able to care for the boys (she was the sort of GM who let them fall off the sofa as babies) - her contribution is taking them on outings to the Château de Versailles and MacDonalds or going round for lunch and letting the nanny wait on her hand and foot.

The great-aunt has an old husband who needs care at night time so she is out of the picture until her husband dies.

My partner's parents, who actually do much the most for the boys on a regular basis, don't do overnight relief care for work purposes on principal (which I sympathise with ).

Poor boys . Everyone seems to want to pick them up and put them down to suit. No wonder your dp says you and he will have them.

Surfermum - well, we would like to have the boys to live with us as then we would have control over their and our lives. But their mother doesn't want that.

I think your dp should but his foot down about the nanny that he pays for, is she performing as per her contract??? It seems ludicrous that there is nanny being employed who is not capable of overnight care and denitting them!!!!! Presumable the split was quite some years ago and therefore a new nanny or an au pair & housekeeper wouldn't be as trautmatic as it would have when the split first happened.

TBH I was ask to have the boys every mon-Thur night and alternate or every 3rd weekend and adjust maintenance payments accordingly ie slowly getting them to move in with you anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Presumably if she is working those 4 days she doesn't get to see them much then anyway. I would still push to ditch the nanny anyway, I hope she isn't overpaid for the job she actually does do!

CarGirl - yes, the more I think about it the clearer I am in my mind that changing the nanny is the best solution - I thought that was the case when I wrote the OP and this discussion is confirming that thought.

No - she's not well-paid - pay peanuts, get monkeys . But you are quite right, the split is an old story now and so the continuity argument doesn't hold - the nanny is the weakest link in the boys' care these days.

to make the nanny redundant you will have to make sure the job changes completely - is she live in or live out at the moment?

CarGirl - we're in France so legislation on redundancy is totally different. Usual form with long-term nannies is to pass them on to another family you find for them.

In any case, it will not be a case of a new full-time live-in nanny - she'll be replaced by a cleaner and some other form of childcare.

I hope it goes well, ultimately I think you have a bit of an upper hand as you pay for the nanny and you would rather have the boys live with you so you an always offer that as an option to whatever else you suggest!

CarGirl - thanks, I agree that we have lots of good arguments. However, my partner tends to back down when in direct negotiation with his ex so I have to prep him very carefully - one of the reasons for this thread, as it helps formulate all the arguments .

Do it writing!!!!!! Obviously very very well worded!

Well, I'm going to have a chat about negotiation tactics with my partner tonight. I'm going to say that I'm happy for us to be his ex's Plan B for childcare when she is away working, but I want her to have a Plan A (ie a new nanny).

If I don't say this, I can't think of any way that he will be able to persuade her to actually change the nanny - we will continue to be Plan A, with no Plan B, and that always means rearrangements (often every week).

I am perfectly happy myself to use a nanny for day care, but I find it a totally unacceptable suggestion that using a nanny to care for the boys overnight is in any way, shape or form the best thing for those children.

I am aghast that anyone thinks that leaving children with a nanny over night is a substitute for being looked after by a family member.

I cannot imagine any father letting their child be looked after by a nanny overnight, when they could perfectly well be looked after in their father's home.

Clandestine would you go and get a job that involved you being away overnight and just expect your ex to have them at short notice without asking if it was workable with them? I hope not! Also the ex would like to have them more but that doesn't suit you so basically you want the right to pick and choose when you do and don't have them and get your ex and his family to rearrange their lives as and when to have them - I think that is unreasonable and unfair on everyone including the children!

No absolutely not - but if my DH did, with or without my approval - there is no way on God's earth my children would be left overnight with a nanny when he was away.

Perhaps if Anna was to think what she would do if her and DH split up and her DH had a similar contact arrangement with her.

If he was away overnight on a regular basis, is she happy that her DD would spend those nights with a nanny?

so if you were away working and so was he, who would look after the children????????

Well given that DH and I have both worked and had children for over 9 years and have always managed to avoid being away at the same time, I see no reason why that wouldn't continue.

If he was pisstaking and made arrangements to go away on a night I was also away, if he would not rearrange, I would cancel my trip.

I have not and would not leave my child with a nanny overnight.

well that's the point isn't it in this case the Mum is making plans without consulting the Father and expecting him to drop everything to look after the children and then at the same time refuses to let the Father have residency of them so that they would be able to look after them! So basically the Father is being treated like a doormat!

What I am saying is, that in exactly the same circumstances as Anna's DH finds himself, I would pick up the pieces rather than have my children stay overnight with a nanny.

I would rather be a doormat and demonstrate to my children that I will always prioritise their care than give them the message that a night alone with my other family is more important to me!