Moving in together and poisonous ex

[Wilsonsdad]

My partner and I have been together for 2.5 years and recently decided to move in together and rent a house. We've been effectively living in each other's place 5-6 days a week for almost 2 years so we're confident the next step won't be a big shock.
I've got 4 daughters, eldest off to uni soon, a 16, 12 and 11 year old. My partner's got 2 daughters 11 and 8. Until we told them about the move we'd all got on fine. We've been really careful from the start about spending more time together, not staying over until 6+ months and then gradually more so the kids didn't feel a big change. My kids get on well with my other half and I get on well with her eldest. Her youngest is very much like her dad and has heard his hatred, lies and fury towards her mum for 3.5 years since she left him. She believes his lies about me and her mum and is fiercely loyal to him. I've never said a bad word about her dad, knowing that to do so would fuel her belief that I'm a bad person. I play football with her and make every effort to get on. We knew the ex would go mad when he found out about our move. He's abusive, borderline psychotic, consumed by hatred for my partner and has always ranted and raved to the children about how evil she is. I'm also a target for his lies and poison, never more so now he knows we're moving in together.
My partner and I talk to the kids about their fears for change, moving house and how it might be living together. Every time we do it's constructive and relaxed.
The ex has now told his kids not to speak to me and not to do anything we ask. The 11 year old isn't so influenced and doesn't believe her dad's lies, but the 8 year old now thinks she's the boss and can tell us what we can and can't do. She refuses to speak to me and turns her back on me when I speak to her. She asks her mum to ask me questions when we have a conversation and hides when speaking about me. She's clearly uncomfortable with her behaviour but is also stubborn enough to maintain it, especially when her dad reinforces it and rewards her bad behaviour. We've got a few weeks until the move to try and restore manners and harmony, so if anyone has experience of anything similar or suggestions we'd be very grateful to hear them.

You been in each others pockets from 2 years by youre own admisson after 6 months staying over which is really unfair. Is the 8 year aware of the move and will she be getting her own space? How will it work it terms of bedrooms?

@AllsortsofAwkward

You been in each others pockets from 2 years by youre own admisson after 6 months staying over which is really unfair. Is the 8 year aware of the move and will she be getting her own space? How will it work it terms of bedrooms?

I don't know what you mean by 'really unfair', unfair to who? Bedrooms will be as they are now, the youngest will share and my eldest will have her own room.

OP
Do your children all live with you?

Who will the youngest share with?

How many bedrooms does her mums house have?

My girls live with their mum and stay with me 2 nights a week.

My partner's girls are 50/50 with their mum and dad.

The bedrooms will be the same as they are at their current homes, the youngest girls share with their sister and the eldest have their own rooms.

The new house has 5 bedrooms.

To be honest, the rooms aren't the issue and we've spoken to them about the practical aspects of the move.

The issue is the youngest girl's new behaviour since she spent the weekend with her dad. The last thing he told them when the were collected was 'remember girls, you don't have to do anything you don't want to', and he said he's reporting their mum to social services for asking them to be polite.

He sounds like a complete idiot.

How is your partner responding to her behaviour?

Hopefully if she is consistent, firm and fair with boundaries she will realise the behaviour won’t be tolerated at least.

It’s so hard with a shit parent like him though.

I think all you can do is both stand firm, be consistent and positive whilst not accepting poor behaviour.
Decide together what your firm lines are and what you're prepared to let slide for a bit whilst things settle down.

I'm guessing she will be unable to keep it up for long, especially if you think she's already uncomfortable about it.

It's really hard to feel torn between parents so make sure that she doesn't feel like she needs to when she's with you both.

If you've got on previously then she'll probably come round.

6 girls between you though, fucking hell!

@HeckyPeck

He sounds like a complete idiot.

How is your partner responding to her behaviour?

Hopefully if she is consistent, firm and fair with boundaries she will realise the behaviour won’t be tolerated at least.

It’s so hard with a shit parent like him though.

He's worse than an idiot and one day his daughters will see him for what he is.

My partner's being consistent with her and not tolerating rudeness and also making her aware how upsetting her behaviour is. She did see this the other day and went quiet, so hopefully she'll reflect and regret.

We know this all started when their dad found out about the move and began a campaign to make it hard for us, he's been degrading us both with lies since we got together so no change there. We keep telling each other that our love and kindness will prevail against his toxic behaviour but you're right, it's so hard.

She’ll realise her father’s lying about you eventually. Kids are clever - she’ll see you be nice to her and her sister and eventually figure everything out. Just be patient.

@heysugar

I think all you can do is both stand firm, be consistent and positive whilst not accepting poor behaviour. Decide together what your firm lines are and what you're prepared to let slide for a bit whilst things settle down.

I'm guessing she will be unable to keep it up for long, especially if you think she's already uncomfortable about it.

It's really hard to feel torn between parents so make sure that she doesn't feel like she needs to when she's with you both.

If you've got on previously then she'll probably come round.

6 girls between you though, fucking hell!

Thanks, that's exactly what we're trying to do. I don't think she can maintain it, the morning after she was sheepish and quiet.

Next time I see them I plan to tell them some of the kind things I've done that they probably take for granted. Fix their bikes, mend their toys, find her a new phone and laptop and set them up, help with homework (their dad isn't able to understand year 6 maths), the list goes on. Maybe they'll realise that although I'm nothing like their crazy, erratic and 'fun' dad, I'm consistent and kind and that's worth something to them.

I hope she'll come round, I can't imagine an 8 year old maintaining that behaviour for too long.

Haha, 6 girls, the oestrogen levels are off the chart. I plan to but a male dog once we're settled in the new place, think he'll become my new best friend pretty quickly

Next time I see them I plan to tell them some of the kind things I've done that they probably take for granted.

Don't do this. It's really not a good idea. They'll see the things you do for them and if anyone should remind them of this, or should be their mum.

If you say it.. it sounds like your blowing your own trumpet.

@GrumpyHoonMain

She’ll realise her father’s lying about you eventually. Kids are clever - she’ll see you be nice to her and her sister and eventually figure everything out. Just be patient.

Thanks, we keep telling ourselves the same. Their dad is very manipulative and controlling and uses abusive methods to get his own way so it will take years for them to see him for who he is. The eldest does see it sometimes but the youngest still believes all the lies. We will remain patient, we both know trying to influence them to see the truth will backfire.

do not expect gratitude from them or guilt trip about things taht you do taht show thoughtfulness... you are part of her 'parents' this is all stuff that you would do for your DC so why wouldnt do your them as well..

you sound quite defensive/agressive about the ex and I think is probably affecting how you see/treat the children - she is only 8 that is a chunk younger than 11 in terms of emotional maturity ....

you only have your DC 2 days a week so maybe your expectations of behaviour of a young child are signficantly higher than can be realistic for a young child who is being emotionally abused by her dad.....

I think you should cut her and her sister a lot more slack and just be kind.......she is with you most of the time so needs to feel she can relax and explore her feelings in her 'home' even if obnoxios

a lot of kids dont like change so maybe shes not that keen on moving house no matter what you are saying/doing....

@averythinline

do not expect gratitude from them or guilt trip about things taht you do taht show thoughtfulness... you are part of her 'parents' this is all stuff that you would do for your DC so why wouldnt do your them as well..

you sound quite defensive/agressive about the ex and I think is probably affecting how you see/treat the children - she is only 8 that is a chunk younger than 11 in terms of emotional maturity ....

you only have your DC 2 days a week so maybe your expectations of behaviour of a young child are signficantly higher than can be realistic for a young child who is being emotionally abused by her dad.....

I think you should cut her and her sister a lot more slack and just be kind.......she is with you most of the time so needs to feel she can relax and explore her feelings in her 'home' even if obnoxios

a lot of kids dont like change so maybe shes not that keen on moving house no matter what you are saying/doing....

You're right, I don't expect gratitude but think it's important to remind sometimes of the things we take for granted.

The ex is toxic and has abused their mum in front of them, assaulted me in front of them, and told them it was the other way around. I'm far more patient and tolerant to them than my own daughters. I've been nothing but kind to them, no matter how rude the 8 yo is.

We know they're scared of the move and have talked about it, written down both worries and what will be better. That was really constructive and honest, but since they told their dad things have gone backwards. We'll keep trying to explore their fears and concerns, talk about ways of dealing with them etc. Last night their mum tried to talk to them and they clammed up,

An ex who usually says "I'll report such and such to social services" are 9/10 times doing it as a control method to try and get their way. As soon as you say "ok fine" they back off because they're expecting you to feel threatened and not want it to go further. Truth is if the ex did contact social services they would be assessed/watched too - social services aren't stupid, they're well aware of the things toxic ex's will say and do, and will have dealt with matters a lot more serious than asking a child to be polite.

@Cherryrainbow

An ex who usually says "I'll report such and such to social services" are 9/10 times doing it as a control method to try and get their way. As soon as you say "ok fine" they back off because they're expecting you to feel threatened and not want it to go further. Truth is if the ex did contact social services they would be assessed/watched too - social services aren't stupid, they're well aware of the things toxic ex's will say and do, and will have dealt with matters a lot more serious than asking a child to be polite.

That's the ex all over, controlling, threatening and manipulative. Social services and the police know him very well and as you say, they're not stupid.

He sounds like my friends ex husband who is a complete abusive bastard. He convinced his youngest to not even speak to her own mother when she at home. He saw me with my friend one day leaving her house as he was dropping off and from that moment on the child refused to speak to me whenever she saw me. The child was constantly threatening to calm social services on her mother for not doing as the child wanted because “daddy says you’re a useless mother- the social will take us away from you.” It was awful. My friend was so beaten down from years of his abuse that she just had no fight left and let her child walk all over her. Things are much better now for them but the child (a teen now) still controls her mother.

Not sure I have any advice OP but I’d advise getting this nipped in the bud now or else just nit moving in.

She asks her mum to ask me questions when we have a conversation

The child shouldn’t be forced to speak to you but your partner absolutely shouldn’t be acting as a go between. She should tell the child “if you have a question for Jim you need to speak to him yourself”

@Smallsteps88

She asks her mum to ask me questions when we have a conversation

The child shouldn’t be forced to speak to you but your partner absolutely shouldn’t be acting as a go between. She should tell the child “if you have a question for Jim you need to speak to him yourself”

Fully agree, we both know kids can't be forced. Mum does do exactly that.

I normally reply to her regardless, but it's wearing thin and I wonder how she'll learn to talk to me directly if I keep doing that.

Maybe try not answering her until she has asked you directly. I would treat it as though she hasn’t spoken unless she speaks directly to you.

You have to keep reminding yourself she is an abused child... her dad abused her mum and is now abusing her ... it's hard but don't let it wear you thin ... you just have to keep with the loving/kind ..approach maybe you and your partner could investigate some therapy for you all / you as a couple to deal with all the trauma ...

Thanks for the advice, you're right to point that out about the abuse. It's heartbreaking to think of the things these poor kids have witnessed, sat with hands over ears so they can't hear their dad shouting, being told them their mum's evil and so many more poisonous lies.

I'll suggest to my partner therapy for the girls. They clam up when she asks about things, mainly because their dad makes them promise not to tell their mum but also because it must be painful to relive.

Definitely don't tell them all the nice things you've done for them. Your partner can or just leave it, they'll realise that you take care for them in their own time. If you remind them then they might resent you.
Just carry on ignoring her bad behaviour and rewarding good, she'll come round.

I agree definitely don’t tell them all the nice things you do. Children remember how you make them feel rather than what you tell them. They’ll remember whether they felt welcome, comforted, secure, in your presences. I guarantee you this wee girl is experiencing huge internal turmoil over her loyalty to her father and her love for her mother. She’s probably an anxious mess inside tbh. From you and her mum she doesn’t need reminding how good you are to her, she just needs you to keep being good to her.

Thanks Smallsteps88 and wifflewafflebiscuit, good advice and insight.

Their mum has said to them how much I've done and they didn't respond much. I will keep being as kind and caring as always and just hope she comes round soon. It's 8 weeks until move day and I'd planned on buying a trampoline and football goal (youngest loves playing and we do whenever I'm staying round) so I really hope she starts to come round.

Thanks to all who responded with advice. I've not seen my partner's girls for a week because they're with their dad for his week of their summer holiday childcare which is probably no bad thing to allow things to settle.

When I do see them next I won't mention the things I do for them but when they're rude I'll start asking them if they would do nice things for someone who isn't nice to them. Keep making them reflect so hopefully they'll start to make the connection. Talked about group therapy sessions with my partner and will most likely book something soon.

Spoke to my partner's parents at the weekend and they said the youngest girl treats them differently compared to a year ago and she started to ignore them and is rude. Almost exactly a year ago my partner rejected ex's demand that he keeps 75% of all their house and assets (the courts have since ordered a much fairer settlement that he still hasn't complied with). The ex tried to get father in law to convince her to accept less and he refused, so as per his typical behaviour he's poisoned them to their grand kids because he didn't get his way.

To finish on a positive, the eldest girl was chatting to her mum about some fantasy project to build a big boat to go sailing in, and she said 'Mum, I'll build the inside of the boat and make it nice, and Op /me can build the outside with the difficult curves and stuff because he's good at things like that'.

That really touched me that she recognises things that I can do, and most of all that she sees me as a part of her life and her mum's life.