Anyone do handovers on neutral ground?

[TwoDots]

It’s all gone tits up with SD mum. My DP and her have had issues, but I’ve managed to remain civil with her when she comes to the house.

A month ago SD mum really upset me. She dropped SD off on the Sunday morning at our house, but SD(8) had spent the Saturday night at an impromptu sleepover. SD was brought straight to our house from said sleepover. Everyone is in different places over the virus so I don’t want a debate about that, but we were still fairly locked down a month ago and I completely was not ready for it. I’ve not let my own DS sleep at over other houses, so it put me in a bit of a tricky situation.

I came to our front door with the intention of having a quick chat about it with her. When I got to the door I could sense friction plus SD was close by, so I chose not to say anything and I went back into my house. I spoke to DP about it once she had left and I suggested calling her, but he advised against it and said he would deal with it.

Anyway, DP and ex are still arguing over it. She won’t let it go that I dared come to the door. Doesn’t matter how much DP tries to explain and asks her to respect our differences of opinion and leave it at that, she now is hell bent on making sure I know my place as I should never have come to the door that day. She’s moaned that I’ve since come to the door to say a friendly hello to her new boyfriend, and refuses to talk about their daughter unless I’m not in the house.

Honestly, it’s such a huge over reaction. I’ve never interrupted their conversations but I’m being made to feel like I’m not welcome in my own home. I have tried to reach out to her to explain why I was upset and can we talk to try and sort it all out as this level of animosity isn’t good for anyone. She’s ignored that.

I have done nothing wrong and I can’t keep being made to feel like I’m in the way in my own home and I should leave when she comes. There is a supermarket next door to us, and I’m tempted to ask DP to do his exchanges in the car park. Thoughts?

I don’t think I’d have anyone tell me what my children can / cannot do and I wouldn’t dream of thinking I even had a chance of telling my DP’s EW what she could/ couldn’t do with her children.

If I had an issue with something she had done, I would tackle it with my partner and if he didn’t tackle it then I would make decisions about my welfare and that of my child/ children.

Equally if my Dp’s EW felt she had a right to say something to me about my choices re my children endangering hers? I wouldn’t pay her the blind bit of attention.

She isn’t stupid. Nor am I. Hence we wouldn’t do it. And therefore the conflict would not be increased.

You have an issue with your DP’s child partaking in something that endangers you and your child? He is the only person who can sort this, not you.

@sassbott shrug indeed!

I think you have this idea that I’ve gone to her telling her what she can and cannot do. I repeat and please take note....I did not speak to her. I have let DP deal with it.

Not once has anyone told the ex what she can and cannot do. DP has explained to her that we are both upset and to maybe give him a heads up in future. We have offered to change handover day to a Friday so she can take her on all the sleepovers she wants but it won’t then affect our household in the same way. All he has had is abuse and she is now fixated on me because I dared come to my own front door.......but I said absolutely nothing .

Granted she could probably tell I was pissed off, but I am human and I was put in a situation I was not ready for and without prior warning. I felt very panicky at that time....and still I managed to stay quiet and not make things worse. If that is all she has over me, then so be it. I didn’t act recklessly or selfishly like she did.

I am well within my rights to want to protect my DC. This invisible line c**p does not come before my child’s welfare. She does not get to make decisions like that , yet I’m not allowed to say anything. As I said, her needs as a mother do not trump mine. I would never try and tell her what to do, but I can speak up. I have done this via DP and she doesn’t care. What should I do? Move me and my DC out of the house? At the end of the day, we were in lockdown in a global pandemic. There’s no way I would take my child to someone else’s house after a blatant disregard for the rules. It’s just bad manners and completely thoughtless.

It’s such a shame to see such a poor attitude. “I will do what I want with my child and no one can tell me otherwise”. If that’s how you want to live your life, then so be it. But I prefer to be considerate of others.

If I were in that position I would have let my ex know first and I certainly wouldn’t kick off if he was uncomfortable about it. It’s totally understandable. These are strange and difficult times. Nobody is perfect and if she didn’t think, then fair enough. Own it, not deflect it on to me.

I have taken your advice on board and she can drop off at the end of my drive. If I am going to be criticised for even coming to my own front door in a friendly way, then frankly she isn’t welcome near it. SD is not going to be scarred for life with her mum waiting in the car

@Woodmarsh thank you . I agree it was thoughtless and selfish and a mother should have the right to speak up if needed. It’s also my house and she doesn’t get to dictate where I can be in her presence. Silly woman

@sassbott I see where you're coming from but I think the difference here is that op is living with her dp & kids whereas you are not.
When households are separate it's ok for people to stick to their own ways of doing things but when households are blended there has to be a bit more room for step parents to have their say as it's their joint household that's being affected.

In this case there's no way that op should feel uncomfortable in her own home albeit one she shares with sdc & imo she's dead right to say handover occur as she sees fit (within reason).
Also for what it's worth I too would am of the same view as you in that I would not blend as I would have no interest in having to throw my lot in with sdc & an ex who's 'behaviour' I couldn't fathom/deal with.;

@Magda72 I get it. I do. And yes it’s precisely this reason that I haven’t blended. As I said upthread, as schools reopened my DC have returned. We have no underlying health issues anywhere and I’ve done so putting their emotional and mental health first, as they were starting to struggle in lockdown. Plenty of parents haven’t (including my DP’s EW). And that’s their choice, I respect it.

But if I lived with my DP and suddenly had him saying, listen your DC can’t return to school because if they do my EW is not going to allow my DC to come for contact. It would result in a very difficult situation. Because his DC have absolutely no identified health reasons that they cannot return to school themselves. And I simply would not be prepared to say ‘well ok, I’ll force my children to sit at home when all their friends have gone back to school (and are having a great time) and we’ll tell them it’s because of your children.’

My point is this. Covid has made contact arrangements fraught. No doubt. Some people are still hyper vigilant and doing very little (which is again their choice and I respect it fully) whilst others are off living life as though the virus doesn’t exist.

I have no doubt that discussions need to be had. But hell would have to freeze over before I thought I would present myself in front of my Dp’s EW.
The Op has since clarified that she said nothing, but it’s entirely possible that she looked angry/ was stewing for a fight. Which again, fair enough, her house her right. And the EW has reacted unfavourably by escalating matters her side.

I’ve been involved with cafcass (as a result of my DP’s EW) and he’s had more family court hearings than I’ve had hot dinners. In my dealings with all of these agencies, if they partner does even one thing unfavourably, it can very quickly go against the NRP. I am on a separate forum and agencies can be very quick to cite ‘conflict’ in these situations and point the finger at partners. RP’S can get away with a lot more.

I have no idea if there is any history of family court here. But if this ended up with Cafcass (because the exwife refused to handover in a family car park), and it transpired that the OP had made this demand. Obviously I’m no Cafcass officer but I’m more inclined to say that this would fall on the side of the RP. Because it isn’t in the best interests of the child (and it’s not clear whether any conflict exists between the parents btw).

That’s the reality for STepparents who live with NRP. And what everyone needs to be mindful of.

My DP’s EW has made all sorts of demands. I’ve paid absolutely no attention to any of them. I’ve laughed most of them off. I mean in the OP’s example, how is the EW even going to know whether the Op is in the house when the EW calls? It’s a laughable attempt to avert control/ create arguments and should be treated as such.

*exert control.

[quote TwoDots]@RandomMess I do. He is such a passive person who’s incredibly afraid of his ex. He tries to defend me, but he rarely makes his point clear, and he ends up with two frustrated women.

He really tries though and he admits his faults. The ex is a very difficult, controlling bully and I hate the way she treats him. I stay out of it though, but I had to speak up this time as it increased the risk to my DS[/quote]
It may have increased the risk, but sadly, that's not your place to air your displeasure and is the reality of coparenting a stepchild, that each parent will view situations differently.
I understand why you interjected, but really that's overstepping

To be honest I would stop reaching out to her. She's obviously loving that she's upset you. Pretend that what she does doesn't effect you. She can't tell you what to do in your own house. From now on she can stay well away from it, her ex can pass that on to her.

Some of the things I hear on here are so funny. “Present myself in front of ex”. An ex is not a person of superior authority. Nor are they the bloody queen. They have no more rights that the rest of us. For God sake, if I can’t be at my own front door or speak to my partner about it, then you may as well take all of my freedom.

I wasn’t looking for a fight. Yes, I probably looked miffed but despite this I chose to stay quiet and walk away. Now it’s not my place to state my “displeasure”. Oh please! My DP was equally annoyed, and I have every right to talk to my DP about it.

Not once have we told her what she can and can’t do, we’ve merely asked for a heads up in future and to look at changing the routine (one week on and off so only handover day to be changed) so it minimises the risk.

I fully accept there is lots she can do which increases the risk, which I fully accept. I have no issue about schooling etc. What I have is an issue because she increased the risk unnecessarily.....basically she wanted to drink. Going in someone’s house was forbidden at the time, never mind sleeping at it then bringing SD straight to another house. I’m sorry, if anyone is overstepping it is her for having such blatant disregard for other people. I can guarantee you she would have plenty to say if the roles were reversed. 2 weeks prior she was asking DP to not take her anywhere including supermarkets etc because she was so worried about the new risks to children, imagine I’d ignored that with the attitude of we can do what we want on our time? Respect has to work 2 ways. We were respectful of her wishes but ours are insignificant. We are not children. Everyone should be working together. It would be a lot simpler if step parents and especially with their own children were given a bit more respect. I can’t speak up for my child because the ex is more important? Ridiculous.

I’ve been on the scene a long time and this is the first time I’ve spoken up, albeit through my partner. This woman is a narcissistic bully who completely shapes my life, and I get in with it. But that’s the problem, you’re just expected to put up and shut up. Why? Overstepping boundaries? What about my own boundaries? When is it ok for me to have a day in what my home and children are subjected to?

I have taken SD feelings on board and instead of the supermarket she can be dropped at the end of the drive unless she sorts out her attitude towards me and my home. If I’m not welcome at my own door, then neither is she.

And as for cafcass....they’d see a lot more of her behaviour. Moving towns without telling DP. Moving SD in with a new bloke of 6 months and his lodger without telling DP about the lodger etc. Abuse. And fwiw, she’s not the RP. They have 50:50 and DP is in receipt of the CB

I appreciate the advice but I will not accept assumptions and being told I’ve overstepped because I dared come to my own front door and then leave it to DP to deal. I have boundaries too. I’ve reached out to her this week only, as it was causing rows between the 2 of them and I’ve offered the opportunity to sort it out. We are all adults and it’s in everyone’s interests to be able to communicate and resolve issues. I won’t chase it and the ball is in her court now.

@Candyfloss99 I totally agree. I’ve tried to be the bigger person but she can stay away now . DP fully prepared to tell her so

@TwoDots
if anyone is overstepping it is her for having such blatant disregard for other people.

A mother cannot overstep with her own child! She made a choice about her child, for whatever reason, that is her business, not yours. She hasn't overstepped. You do in expecting her to consbider you and your perspectives. She would have been unreasonable to not consider something that the father raised, but even still unless it's a genuine safeguarding issue you have no grounds to raise these issues.

I understand her getting the hump that some other woman expects to raise issues about her choices with her about her parenting choixes.

To you her reluctance re shops is hypocritical, I disagree. She's the parent, you're not. She made a request. Again her father could have chosen to go against this request. It's nothing to do with you in essence.

@SoloMummy we will have to agree to disagree on this one. You’re not getting my point. She can do whatever she likes with her daughter but she doesn’t then bring her straight to my house from that sleepover without even speaking to DP about it during a full lockdown. I am fully entitled to feel what I like about her actions as they directly impact us. Did I say something to her? No. Have I asked her to stop? No. DP feels exactly as I do, and he has dealt with it. So I repeat, I am not overstepping for being at my own front door and for having an opinion.

I’d really rather not have to explain this again

[quote TwoDots]@SoloMummy we will have to agree to disagree on this one. You’re not getting my point. She can do whatever she likes with her daughter but she doesn’t then bring her straight to my house from that sleepover without even speaking to DP about it during a full lockdown. I am fully entitled to feel what I like about her actions as they directly impact us. Did I say something to her? No. Have I asked her to stop? No. DP feels exactly as I do, and he has dealt with it. So I repeat, I am not overstepping for being at my own front door and for having an opinion.

I’d really rather not have to explain this again[/quote]
She doesn't need to consult your oh about bringing his child for the pre arranged contact. What she does on her time with her child is her business!

Not saying I wouldn't be peeved as well. But that's the choice you've made by living with someone who has a young child.

I disagree. During lockdown, they temporarily changed their routine and it was of the understanding that lockdown rules would be fully adhered to, to keep risks low

@SoloMummy I would agree normally, hence why I’ve never spoken up, but this is during a full lockdown amidst a global pandemic which is taking lives. It’s gone against their agreement. DP does have the right to speak up if she’s going against the rules and increasing the risk to not only our household but his DD too. These are exceptional circumstances

Op, I sense your biggest frustration is the feeling that you and your son are lower priority because of the Ex W. I really get that and in some ways it is true. Where one parent won't be reasonable and there is a minor child involved the unreasonable parent often "wins".

Yes potentially the Ex W put you at risk but the only way to lower the risk was to turn away dsd. Thankfully you were all ok. My ex h did the same so I get it.

However Ex W was not going to change her mind, nor was she going to admit being wrong. The same with her behaviour now, she is outraged she was challenged (being honest how did she know you were grumpy so it must have been quite a hostile reaction) and she won't be reasonable.

If the ex w is narcisstic you won't "win" and dsd will be hurt in the cross fire. I would not add any fuel to the fire as she will thrive on the drama. Know that you are important and decide to drop the rope. The best thing to do with a narcisstic person is welcome enthusiatically their suggestions. For example, she wants to drop off dsd earlier or later, dp response could be "fantastic, suits us really well". The more she knows she can't upset you will cause her to look elsewhere for conflict and drama.

I have learned through experience that you can reason with disordered individuals, what they want will never be compromised unless it is to protect their image. All you can do is minimise your exposure, reduce drama and try to protect your dsd.

She doesn't need to consult your oh about bringing his child for the pre arranged contact. What she does on her time with her child is her business!
Maybe she doesn't 'need' to but she should. I would be furious with my exh if he had sent my child on a sleepover during lockdown & then dropped her off with me with no care for either our child's safety or mine! And I know he would be just as furious with me if I did similar and put him, his dw & their children at risk just because I'm a mum & think that I can do whatever I like without taking other people into consideration.
Honestly that's Golden Uterus Syndrome at it's worst.

You aren't allowed to answer your front door?
Sd's mum is being controlling and ridiculous.
Mixing with other kids affects your child=your business.

@Techway I agree. My reasonable head would say the same. We were honestly tempted to send Dsd away, but felt it was cruel. That really is the only thing we could have done with this, and I guess I feel once again it’s my son who has to come second because not upsetting her is somehow more important than minimising the risk to my son. It’s just a rubbish situation and really highlights how powerless you are as a step mum, even to protect your own DC. The issue I have now is she’s the one bringing it up over and over again. This was all done a month ago, but she’s carrying on like a child with making issues about me being present when handovers happen at my home. It’s that controlling and bullying behaviour I simply can’t tolerate any longer.

@Magda72 I really wanted to say the same. Some replies on here scream golden uterus. Why do people have these attitudes that they can do what they want and where they want with their children, no matter the impact on other people. What is that teaching the kids?

This was another part of my issue as I have been talking with my autistic DS throughout lockdown about what you can and can’t do etc. Life is very black and white for him. He’s wanted to sleepover at places and hasn’t been able to. He’s had so many things cancelled, then trying to explain how his step sister can come to our house straight from a sleepover. It’s annoyed him a lot.

I get that blended families can be difficult but I feel all parties should be considered and heard for it to truly work. At the end of the day SD is not my responsibility. Her mum wants her to not be affected by everything, so I think she needs to change her approach. I’ve offered an olive branch and that’s all I will do

@Mrskeats I’m not even allowed at my front door when handovers happen, even if the ex is not there. She’s moaned about me saying hi to her boyfriend when he was picking up...do you see the hypocrisy there?!

Thank you. I think it is my business when it can affect my child’s health and well-being

Go on I'm intrigued how could she have a problem with you saying hi to her boyfriend?

Can't wait to hear some on here defend that one

@Woodmarsh I can’t answer that. This was what she said to my DP on Tuesday. We’ve tried to make sense of it but we think it’s because she feels I should not make myself present when discussions are happening about SD as it should be private. She moaned at my DP for even talking to me about things related to SD. She has a conplex

Well if its private her boyfriend shouldn't be there either

Sorry I'm just really cross on your behalf and your sons

Thanks @Woodmarsh. It’s definitely hypocritical isn’t it? It makes me feel a bit rubbish at times. She’s always one rule for her and another for my DP