Has to choose

[Randomlettersmake]

We are in a heartbreaking unfair situation.

I have a fiance of five years and we have lived together for 4. I have 3 children from previous relationship aged 14, 12 and 8. He has 2 children aged 11 and 7. We have one child together aged 6 months. We are all white.

His ex has 2 other children aged under 6 and 1 older child (about 15). These children are both of mixed heritage (black fathers). She currently has a black husband. She and my fiance split up when their younger child was a baby. Things were cordial but over time, they have deteriorated. More since we got together and had a baby and got engaged.

My ex has been going for 50/50 custody up from fortnightly weekends and a bit longer on holidays and his ex has been fighting it. They are not cordial any more and do not speak at all. The ex says that the environment and home we provide is not in keeping with her values and it would be "damaging" if they spend more time in our company.

She has collected various social media posts of myself and my family (even my kids dad) as evidence and we have had numerous interviews with legal professionals mediators, psychologists and social workers on both sides. The evidence she has presented basically says that me and my family are racist and homophobic. It was all things to do with Brexit and the election and support of the army (my brother is a soldier). We were assured by solicitor in January that nothing she provided was racist and is covered under free speech but it now seems we are at a point (advised by same solicitors and mediators) that it would be best if my fiance moved out if he wants to keep regular overnight access with his children. Otherwise his ex has agreed that he can see the children at his parents house and stay there with them (40 miles away from us) one weekend a month and visit them and take them out where they live one weekend day a week with their baby sibling (our baby) but not their step siblings (my three). He has occasional friendly contact with his children's older brother (sends him money for Xmas and birthdays) so will probably see him too when he is there.

Much of what the children has said has not been made open to us or their mum. Just summaries of their views (is this usual?). They said they like me and get on well with me but my family can be loud and scary and they drink a lot (clairifed: more than their mum or dad's family but nobody being sick or falling over) at family events.

So now they have said that he should move out for the time being and try and rebuild with his kids 50/50 custody or accept this other arrangement because he might get even less if he continues. They might say no overnight or holidays and only visits.

His parents adore their grandchildren and have said it is sad but might be for the best for now and told him that he could live near them and they will help him with the children when he has them (including ours).

I feel like they think we are trash and I am terrified my fiance will leave me. We were thinking about setting a date for wedding and last night I said to him "well we cant think about the wedding for now maybe forever" and he didn't even say anything just huffed.

We have not seen them since mid March due to pandemic and they seem more and more distant from their dad when they do speak a few times a week. The 15 year old eldest boy posted a picture of him with all his siblings on Instagram talking about being a mixed family and the riots going on and my fiance just showed it to me and stayed quiet the whole night.

I can't condemn my family so he can keep his kids stay here. What else can we do?

What did the posts say? If solicitor and mediators are advising him to move out to keep access then does his ex have a point?

Also why is he going for 50-50 now? It sounds like his children are able to give their views and aren't keen on your family. It's quite disruptive to them to be trying to move to that arrangement now when they already have an established contact pattern.

Is it the professionals telling him he needs to move out?

If you're family are loud and obnoxious when they are drunk to the point they are uncomfortable I think they've got a point. Tbh if solicitors are advising him to move out there must be something. Where has the 50/50 come from? Has it always been the case or more recent? Is he wanting to avoid maintenance? It must be extremely expensive supporting 6 children.

Op if professionals are telling him to move out if he wants 50/50 then it would seem they believe his ex has a case. I don't know what to advise but it would seem to me that you may benefit from trying to stand back & see your family's behaviour through other people's eyes & be honest with yourself as to how they are coming across.

It is very sad. It sounds like his ex is not happy he is with you now and is using their children to get him to drop you.

I think in your shoes I would point out to fiancé he will likely have to chose between marrying and living with you and only seeing his kids with ex occasionally at his parents house or separating from you and not living with your child but seeing his kids with ex more.

I would point out that you are not blackmailing him with your child.

If solicitor has stated you have not stated anything racist, he would tell you if you had.

I’ve thought long and hard before posting here and something just doesn’t ring right. There are a few scenarios people in the family court system are used to. One of them is an ex being hostile when the other ex has moved on/ got engaged/ had a baby. It’s typical and quite common that conflict around child contact can increase at these times. As such the professionals will have seen things like this and will be able to act accordingly (see through it).

The fact that in your OP, you have to clarify that your family drinks a lot (but not to the extent of being sick/ falling over) is quite odd. You seem to accept that they do drink a lot more but stop short of what most would term unacceptable behaviour in anything other teens/ Tweenies. Is there any chance the children don’t enjoy being around people who drink more than their parents/ parents families? Has that been considered?

Social media posts are also the devils work and are taken with a pinch of salt in child related proceedings. However (as much as free speech is very much a mainstay of the UK), there is potentially content in there which combined with what the children have said, are painting a not very complimentary picture of your family (again potentially).

What am I trying to say? The professionals are not advising your DP lightly. If they are advising this not go to court, it will be because what is going to be put in front of a family court judge will not be viewed favourably. And a lot of lawyers are quite happy to roll the dice of chance so to speak, as family courts are notoriously grey. Until they’re not. And if the interim report that has come back (after the children’s interview) advises what the children’s wishes are and it’s backed up by evidence, the court will be highly likely to follow the guidance of the specialists. Which is that the children do not want to stay in your and your Dp’s house.

What does your DP do? That’s his choice. In his shoes I would move close to his parents to secure overnight contact and retain his relationship. When he doesn’t have his children, he can come back and be with you.

In the meantime I would pay some heed to @Magda72 advice and use this time to take a look at your family and how they could come across.

I am very civil with my exh and children have near on 60/40 set up. If he had a partner whose family my DC really didn’t enjoy being around and that’s the only environment they had a choice of being in to see him? I wouldn’t force them to go and if I thought for second that they were making racist comments, they wouldn’t be going until I was sure that behaviour had been tackled. There is absolutely no place for racism. Ever.

If the children are saying your family is scary that’s massive! (Also sounds like a lot of alcohol and less than pleasant attitudes are the norm in your family) Their father needs to prioritise them- not your family.

As pretty much a non-drinker I feel deeply uncomfortable around drunk people regardless of whether they're "happy drunk" or not at the point of being sick or falling over. I don't blame the children for feeling scared in the presence of people who they know aren't in control of their own actions.

Those children should not be put in that position regardless of whether it's to help your fiance's access case or not.

This very odd. Are they saying that things are ok as they are bit not if he went for 50/50? What are the issues raised a problem on the basis of 50/50 but not fortnightly weekends and longer during holidays? They are still likely to be exposed.

If the mother is happy to let things are they are, how can this not be construed as manipulation on her part to avoid the 50/50?

I also don't understand why your oh would have to seperate from you if going for 50/50 if the issue is your family rather than you and your kids? Surely the order could just be that they are not to mix with your family?

@dontdisturbemenow, the ex is not happy with the EOW setup. She is offering overnights only if it takes place at his parents house.

For the professionals to advise him not to put it in front of a judge because overnights may be revoked completely? There’s more to this than is being explained. It’s clear that the environment has been considered non suitable / or the children simply don’t like it.

Judges don’t revoke overnights unless there are grounds. Lawyers don’t advise people to move out unless the other side has a smoking gun/ the parent runs a very real risk of things going against them?

Regardless of what happens, you either come off social media or make you friends and family very small and select, and set it to totally private. Don't give them the opportunity to find any more dirt on you or your family.

Is there no option for the children to stay at your home with their dad and never have to see your family? If they are the problem can you separate them from step children but still see them at other times?

@Sally872

Is there no option for the children to stay at your home with their dad and never have to see your family? If they are the problem can you separate them from step children but still see them at other times?

Sounds like that’s not something OP is prepared to do.

I can't condemn my family so he can keep his kids stay here. What else can we do?

Something smells fishy. I've been in your shoes as contact very early on was tried to stop (if I was involved). Mediators said from day 1 she didnt have a leg to stand on.

@purple I completely agree with you.
My DP too went through allegation after allegation, at no point did anyone tell him to back down from securing court ordered contact.
For people to advise it? The full story is no being disclosed.

It sounds like you should be condemning your family.

Sorry, but they do sound like trash. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Did your DP as his children if they wanted to live with you 50% of the time? It doesn't sound the dc were ever up for it.
This comes across as a ploy to pay less CMS, that's backfired spectacularly.
Take yourself off social media OP, it's not an essential unless you're a 12 year old girl.

To be honest OP I wouldn't want my daughter to be exposed to those sorts of views that it sounds like you and your family are expressing on SM and we don't have a mixed race family - the pro Brexit, anti immigration rhetoric goes against our family values.
It doesn't sound like she objects to their father spending time with the children, more that the values they will be exposed to in your house jar with her own. What is your husbands view here? Does he agree with the language and message on SM given that he is close to his older step son who (if I follow your posts clearly) is not white?

Could we have some very specific examples of the language used in these posts? My experience of seeing similar on SM always has an undercurrent or racism and exclusion so that may be colouring my view and it would be good to see examples.

However if a solicitor feels it could go either way* I'd be willing to bet that there is an undercurrent or two there.

If it comes down to it, would you be willing to display more inclusive views and distance yourself from what is considered offensive to preserve the relationship with your step children and their father?

The evidence she has presented basically says that me and my family are racist and homophobic. It was all things to do with Brexit and the election and support of the army (my brother is a soldier). We were assured by solicitor in January that nothing she provided was racist and is covered under free speech

There is some really really offensive stuff on Facebook that I’d put under those headings. And yes, it would be covered under “free speech” but I’d not want anything to do with people that have such views, and certainly not want my children exposed to it.

It doesn’t take a lot imagination to wonder what people who think it’s Ok to share really offensive stuff on Facebook (I’m proud of the Union Jack and if you don’t like that you can f* off etc) to wonder what they say in the privacy of their own homes. Particularly when drunk.

We don’t know what you or your family have posted OP and I may be completely out of order in which case I apologise. But I’d take a really good hard look at yourself and your family.

OP, you’ve deleted the post that contained the detail of what had been posted on social media, I read it before it was deleted.

Here’s the thing. The posts that you are citing, no, they’re not pretty reading. And the reality is that it could be said that there were very clear racist undertones to what you / your family members had posted.

Your post? Regarding your view on what makes a woman a woman? (you basically did a JK Rowling). I put something like that clearly in the camp of transphobia. Which I have absolutely no time for. At all. Nor would I want my children regularly spending time with someone who thinks it their ‘right’ under free speech to voice views that are intensely judgemental.

Of course free speech allows you to express your views. But at what cost? Katie Hopkins has finally been banned permanently from Twitter. There are numerous examples around the world of people being called out for racist/ homophobic behaviour. They are losing their jobs/ businesses virtually overnight. Is this all passing you by? Or are you in tune with what is happening in society?

I don’t know what you do for a living, but I’d also read your employment contract. A lot of companies can fire you (under gross misconduct) if you post anything deemed offensive that could reflect negatively on their brand. The post about ‘women’?. Offensive. And if you worked where I work and it was bought to light, words would be had.

In summary? I wouldn’t want my kids spending time with you either. Push this to court. You’ll be banned from seeing the children completely and your DP will be told that he can see them / overnights can be restored if he can prove that he can provide them with an environment more suited to their values (I.e not with you).

It’s not a heartbreaking situation at all. Take a good long look at yourself and your views. There are many things a society we don’t understand, or agree with. Seek to understand, don’t be judgmental. And certainly don’t be stupid enough to post stuff on social media.

Honestly. The world is going mad.

Your SM posts and those of your family must be on the very cusp of what is deemed free speech and what then becomes outright racist. What does your boyfriend think of your and your families views?

I agree with a lot of other PPs that unfortunately something doesn't sit quite right here. I'm not sure if it's unusual that you don't know what the children have said, but I'm sure someone else can put you right on that.
As for your family - who are you talking about as family, parents, siblings, aunt's, cousins ?? And how often do you see them and they get so drunk they frighten the children ??. I mean my SC have only really met my family including my siblings at Christmas, birthday parties or events. It's probably the same with DPs family too They're not usually here when SC are here?