Going back to normal after Covid?

[CBADotCom]

Firstly, I know DP and I aren't married but for the sake of simplicity I will refer to DP, DSS, MIL etc.
Secondly there is a back story that I really dont want to go into.

Ok, so just to try and summarise:-

Been with DP for 6 years, I have 2 DS 14 & 18, he has 1 DS almost 13. DSS lives FT with DP at MIL/FIL (they have a huge house near a very good school) and has very little contact with his mother (she appears to be happy with this - hasn't seen him since Xmas and the only time she asked to see him then decided to go out and cancel at the last minute).
Prior to DSS moving with his Dad 2 years ago, DP was living with me however when DSS came to live with DP he didn't want to live here (various reasons) so they moved in with MIL/FIL and we've kinda muddled along for the last 2 years. It's not been easy. It's not the relationship I wanted and there have been times when I've questioned whether I want to live like this for who knows how long.

Cut to now - due to DP, MIL & FIL all being key/essential workers, DP & DSS have been staying with me more during Covid lockdown. Whilst DSS doesn't exactly need full time childcare, DP didn't want him being left at home on his own for 8-10 hours a day and as I'm WFH most of the time it seemed the easiest option. I dont have a problem with this, DSS initially wasn't happy but we've now settled into a routine of sorts and he's accepting of the situation. The constant asking when he's going to be able to stay at his Nans has subsided, he accepts he stays there when he's told and things are generally getting easier.

This is partly whats caused my issue - I really like DP being here more and I dont want to go back to how things were before - him staying here 2-4 nights a week sometimes with, sometimes without DSS (more with DSS during school hols). It's not possible for DSS to move in here once schools are back as he cant get to school from here. We cant move somewhere together as it's too expensive to purchase or rent a 4 bedroom property in this area. I cant move closer to MIL/FIL as then my sons couldn't get to school.

Is it unreasonable to consider him moving back in here at some point and DSS staying with MIL/PIL? DP has changed jobs so in theory DSS could stay here every Thurs - Sun or would that be too much disruption to school? DSS is almost 13 and a part of me thinks when he chose to live with his Dad he knew his Dad lived with me and then forced his Dad's hand because he didn't want to stay here. But another part of me thinks he's not yet 13 and his mum (although I'm sure she loves him) has been a bit crap with contact since he moved out so would he see this as his Dad also abandoning him? But then at what point, if ever, would DP be able to say to DSS - I'm moving back in with CBA, you're welcome to come, you're welcome to stay with MIL/PIL.
Whole situation is a mess really isn't it?

@Rainycloudyday

And if he was being unreasonable calling the shots then the father should never have moved him out of the Op’s home. For whatever reason he saw fit to do that. Either you’re a family or you’re not. Chopping and changing and moving back and forth is unsettling and wrong for a child. If the right thing was to remain in OP’s home as a blended family then why didn’t they do that?

The actual way the move came about was very difficult. DSS had been here for about 6 months and had gone to stay with IL's for school half term (I was working, my DS were with their Dad). DP spent a few days here then went to his parents for a few days. When the day came to bring DSS home, DSS said to IL's he didn't want to come back here, he wanted to stay in his own room (kinda understandable - as an 11 year old I'd have been the same - own room doting grandparents the works). Without consulting DP, IL's said you can stay as long as you like, you can go to school here etc etc. When DP got home DSS told him he was staying there and he didn't care if DP came back to live with me he wasn't coming. IL's told DP that DSS shouldn't be made to do anything he didn't want to do, that they'd told DSS he could live with them and they'd be happy to keep him if DP wanted to stay with me.

Of course DP wasn't going to do that so he stayed with his son. Short of dragging him kicking and screaming out of the house what else could he do?

The change of school was delayed as long as possible as DP wanted to try and change DSS mind but he told his Dad that if he tried to make him move he'd run away. DP got the school pastoral team involved and after sessions with DSS they even agreed it was a childish tantrum and there was no valid reason why DSS was saying he didn't want to come back here. Logistically, getting him to and from that school long term was not viable and a decision had to be made about moving him to a more local school.

My DP would be the first to admit that things could and probably should have been handled differently at that time. But we are where we are now.

I'm not asking whether DP should move back in with me tomorrow or next week or even next month. I was asking opinions about whether and at what point it would be viable to do so.

@aSofaNearYou

DP was living here. DSS wasn't abandoned by his mother, she moved - he chose to live with DP (who was living with me). Once he'd moved to my home, he then decided actually he didn't want to live here after all and made his Dad move out so he could live with Grandparents.

I think it was an absolutely crazy idea to go along with this in the first place, he has been given far too much power over the situation. It doesn't sound healthy him living with his grandparents either, if they are habitually undermining his father. It's hard to know what to suggest now that he is settled in his school in that area, but I do think the current set up is a terrible idea.

I dont think there is anything to suggest realistically. There is going to have to be an element of wait and see because who knows how long this situation is going to go on for but once it's all over I think for the foreseeable future our choices are:-

1. Go back to having a part time relationship where we see each other 2/3 nights a week most weeks (some a little less some a little more)

2. Split up

At what point though will it be ok for DP to move out of his parents and say to his son 'you're welcome to come, always welcome, but if you dont want to thats ok' - would peoples opinion be different if DP was moving to his own flat and DSS still didn't want to move out of GP's?

How about DP and DSS stay living with you and what happens is that he sleeps at his grandparents?

Can DP arrange his working life so that once DSS gets home from school DP picks him up and they both come over to yours? This would really minimise the influence that the GP have.

I would actually really worry that the grandparents are turning DSS into an over indulged pre teen that is already very good at pulling emotional blackmail. DP has a parent problem tbh... they think nothing of undermining him.

It's also concerning that DSS is isn't in a relationship with his Mum in so much as he seems to be possibly lacking in "something" relationship wise.

How far is his school from yours and in terms of travelling time? Could he travel part of the way to yours via public transport for DP to meet him and pick him. If DSS moans about it he has the choice to do that or move schools?

Thanks for the clarifications OP. I can better see now how the situation arose. It seems to me like the grandparents are the problem-they are driving a wedge between the child and his father/you. What you can do about that I’m not sure. Is there a reason they would be trying to do that?

@RandomMess

How about DP and DSS stay living with you and what happens is that he sleeps at his grandparents?

Can DP arrange his working life so that once DSS gets home from school DP picks him up and they both come over to yours? This would really minimise the influence that the GP have.

I would actually really worry that the grandparents are turning DSS into an over indulged pre teen that is already very good at pulling emotional blackmail. DP has a parent problem tbh... they think nothing of undermining him.

It's also concerning that DSS is isn't in a relationship with his Mum in so much as he seems to be possibly lacking in "something" relationship wise.

How far is his school from yours and in terms of travelling time? Could he travel part of the way to yours via public transport for DP to meet him and pick him. If DSS moans about it he has the choice to do that or move schools?

That wouldn't be a bad idea, expect DP works 6am - 6pm Mon - Thurs. He changed this because he was doing 24/7 shifts which was making things more complicated. And DSS's school is 3 buses and at least an hour journey away from mine (going directly past IL's) so there's no way he'd come here.

Thank you for the constructive suggestion though - it is appreciated!

I too am concerned about IL's undermining DP and their influence over DSS. I also think more should be done to try and keep DSS having a relationship with his mother, although if she's not making much of an effort I dont see what else can be done there. Is a very messy and sad situation and unfortunately I dont see any positive solution for DSS.

(Contrary to other posters implied suggestions, I do not want DP to abandon his son to shack up with me and be a father figure to my kids)

Could you pick him if he gets the first bus?

Even if he only spent one or two evenings per weeks at grandparents and the rest at yours it would help.

Does he do any after school activities, could he in the future?

Regular cab to a suitable drop off? GPs drop him to yours after school?

I guess DP could force it with the GP that they either support some changes or DSS will have to move schools as they are both moving in with you...

@Rainycloudyday

Thanks for the clarifications OP. I can better see now how the situation arose. It seems to me like the grandparents are the problem-they are driving a wedge between the child and his father/you. What you can do about that I’m not sure. Is there a reason they would be trying to do that?

Honestly? I think it is simply that he is their youngest (and will be last) grandchild. When DP split from his ex (when DSS was 1) he moved back to their home and had 50/50 custody so DSS spent much of his life at their home. They overindulge him tremendously (DP's brother has commented about this too - said he gets away with things no other child would be allowed to get away with). They are simply grandparents spoiling their grandchild but because he has lived with them effectively half his life it's all he's known so in that sense I cant blame him for wanting to be there.

It's part of the reason why DP and I would be so hesitant for him to move out without DSS but then, as I've asked, how long does DP have to live with his son before it becomes acceptable to move out? Whether it be back in with me or to his own place or wherever?

@RandomMess

Could you pick him if he gets the first bus?

Even if he only spent one or two evenings per weeks at grandparents and the rest at yours it would help.

Does he do any after school activities, could he in the future?

Regular cab to a suitable drop off? GPs drop him to yours after school?

I guess DP could force it with the GP that they either support some changes or DSS will have to move schools as they are both moving in with you...

Thats why I was thinking DSS could stay here Thurs eve - Sun eve, DP take him back to GP's and DP stay there the night. DP then go to work from there Mon and stay here Mon eve - Weds eve and DSS stay at GP's. So it's only 3 eves. With DSS staying here during the week and at GP's weekends on school hols. Thats the only way I can see it working.

Is it just me or does this sound like a custody battle between me/DP and IL's?

Yes it does, I really think he should be at yours every evening unless he is seeing mates or DH grows a pair and makes him move school before DSS really does just decide to live with GP...

@Smallsteps88

DSS (12) is currently dictating that his father lives with his parents, rather than as an adult with his partner.

Is he dictating that he lives with his grandparents or is he just dictating that he doesnt live with OP?

If his father proposed the two of them living in their own place near to where they live now would the boy object?

Sorry - I missed this post. DSS has told DP (and school pastoral worker) he doesn't care where DP lives, DSS wants to live with GP's. DP wouldn't walk away from his son, hence why he is still living there.

DSS was happy to move in here when he didn't want to move away with his Mum, but then once GP told him he could live there instead he refused to come back.

I'm just wondering at what point can DP move out (whether with me or on his own!) if his DSS refuses to come with him. He's almost 13 now - if it was a parental custody issue the courts would take his opinion into account so why if he's repeatedly said he wants to live with GP would it be so wrong if DP offered him a choice? Would your opinion be different if DP was asking DSS to move out to their own place and DSS still saying no?

@RandomMess

Yes it does, I really think he should be at yours every evening unless he is seeing mates or DH grows a pair and makes him move school before DSS really does just decide to live with GP...

They are already living there. Only staying with me at the moment as I'm the only person working from home during lockdown. Once schools hols hit (and MIL off work) DSS will be back there most of the week again.

At meant at the moment DSS is young enough that DP can dictate that they both are moving in with you and he is moving schools...

Seriously his parents sound a bit toxic. All they care about is them, not what is best for DSS!!

Gosh @CBADotCom it's all a bit of a mess really isn't it.
Does your Dp have a good relationship with his parents? As in are they close? Do they get on? Does he think they were good parents?
I think your suggestion of Thursday to Sunday at yours & Sunday to Thursday with the gp with dp only at gps on Sunday night is a good one.
If I were your partner I'd present it to ds as "I'm an adult & my home is with my partner & not my parents so I'm moving back in with CBAD. I would ideally love you to live with us full time but I can understand that you don't want to move school. So to that end the compromise is that you spend every Thursday night to Sunday evening with me. I'll take you to gp's on Sunday night & stay there with you but I'm returning home for the rest of the week until Thursday". End of.
It's either that & he accepts his parents influence over ds or he pulls the plug, insists he lives with him full time & moves schools.
I think it's very strange that neither dss nor his dm seem interested in maintaining a relationship & that must be very hard on dss but unfortunately it's enabled him to establish a set up that will be difficult to temper unless your dp really takes the bull by the horns.

Tbh it sounds like both his parents have failed to create any sort of parental bond with him. His mum has moved away without him and not bothered maintaining contact, and he doesn’t care whether his father lives with him or not. It’s clear he feels far more bonded with his grandparents and considers their house his home. It’s really not hard to see why he wants to be there. I don’t see that as him dictating that his dad lives there- you say so yourself DSS has told DP (and school pastoral worker) he doesn't care where DP lives, DSS wants to live with GP's.

It’s your DP who doesn’t want to live away from his son. Who rightfully feels more at home with his grandparents. How long should your DP wait to move out? That’s his call. It’s not your DSS calling the shots here- it’s your DP. Your DSS is happy in his home with his grandparents.

DSS had been here for about 6 months and had gone to stay with IL's for school half term (I was working, my DS were with their Dad). DP spent a few days here then went to his parents for a few days. When the day came to bring DSS home, DSS said to IL's he didn't want to come back here, he wanted to stay in his own room (kinda understandable - as an 11 year old I'd have been the same - own room doting grandparents the works). Without consulting DP, IL's said you can stay as long as you like, you can go to school here etc etc. When DP got home DSS told him he was staying there and he didn't care if DP came back to live with me he wasn't coming.

I agree with PPs, the problem is your ILs have massively overstepped the mark, and I would seriously advocate making removing him from that environment the priority, for his own sake. The influence they are likely to be having on him given his attitude and theirs is not a good thing for him.

To answer your question, I don't think your partner should have to wait any amount of time before moving to a place of his own and insisting his son comes with him. A 13 year old doesn't get to dictate that they are going to live with their grandparents for no good reason, and grandparents do not get to overrule parents and insist their grandchildren live with them. Because it is a blending situation, insisting he come and live with you is more complicated. He may have genuine feelings about not being comfortable living with you and/or your kids, which should be listened to. But ultimately, it should be his father's job to judge how valid his concerns are and what is best for him. If him moving into his own place with his son would be an option, I would choose it over remaining in the toxic environment of his grandparents home. Away from them, it may also be easier for your DP to have a more positive influence on his feelings about all living together.

I agree DP and DSS should move into their own place and learn how to be father and son. Your DP has never actually fully parented his child himself. This is probably why DSS is indifferent to his own father raising him.

I think some sort of counselling might be in order here. As PPs have said, there’s been some sort of failure of the parent/child bond somewhere along the line, aided and abetted by shit stirring grandparents by the looks of things. Their influence over their DGS and impact on their adult sons life is so unhealthy and unacceptable IMO, but that’s another issue altogether. My main worry would be the disconnect DSS seems to feel from his parents and what the long term damage of that might be.
Apart from that, I have no idea how you begin to unpick this now that major decisions have been made and settled.

It must be so hard and so frustrating