Has anyone ever taken on the CSA and won?!

[purplelollypop]

I'll try to keep this short but apologies if it goes on too much!
The situation is that I have 3 DSC who live with us for 6 nights every 2 weeks and at least (very often more) half of the school holidays. DP has always paid for most of their clothes, shoes, school trips, after school care etc. We rent a 3 bedroom house so that they can have their own room with their stuff in.

So, the problem is BM had involved the CSA and claimed that he has never contributed anything towards them and only has them over night twice a week! He's now expectd to back pay huge amounts unless he can produce recepts for everything he has paid for (who keeps them!). He has to pay just over £1000 a month which is just not possible.

The sad thing is that all this is going to really affect his contact with them. It is debatable if we will be able to afford much more than a 1 bedroom flat which means we'll have to reduce the time they spend here. It's really getting us both down, we feel likeour family is being torn from us. The kids are here now and talking about getting their pocket money tomorrow. How do we tell them we just can't keep buying them stuff anymore? Can anyone help?

Anyone?

Hi purplelollypop

DH and I have had a lot of trouble with the CSA because he has a child from a previous relationship, they are unfairly trying to claim £1000's from him in "arrears" which he does not owe. My sympathies, I know how upsetting their letters and phonecalls can get

We are still in the process of complaining/appealing, it has been going on a long time. But I can highly recommend NACSA www.nacsa.co.uk/

They specialise in offering advice and support to victims of CSA injustices and are giving us a lot of very good practical help (advice, letter writing, etc). You have to pay a small subscription (currently £40 a year) but is much cheaper than legal advice and they are specialists. Hope you manage to get it sorted.

Thanks so much scoobi. I hadn't heard of them, we'll definatly be subscribing! Do you know if you are obliged to pay the arrears that they want every month while you're sorting it out?
It seems to me that they only go on what the mother sais and when they have your bank details they can screw you over as much as they want.

DH rang their "debt management" department and arranged to pay a minimal amount, about £25 a month I think, until the appeal has been dealt with. But I don't know if everyone can do this. DH says you should make sure you are tell them you are not admitting liability for any arrears if you agree to do this. We made an arrangement with them just to stop the nasty letters and phonecalls

Could you get witnesses (friends, relatives?) to write statements saying how often the children stay with you? Presumably BM couldn't obtain the same for her version of things.

Off to bed now but will check back tomorrow, there are lots of people being screwed over by the CSA I'm afraid, you're not the only ones

No personal experience but a friend of mine has just contacted them to get maintenance from her ex. She's been told that maintenance is payable only from when they first contact the non-resident parent (which they said could take weeks....) so surely they can't just suddenly say that he owes lots of money?

They want money from DH not to give to the BM, but to claw back for the government money paid out as child benefit etc to the BM. His child will receive no money and our child will be worse off if he is made to pay these imaginary arrears

The arrears will not be for child benefit but for income support. If a child has been supported via income support the money goes back to the secretary of state to help cover this. Otherwise we're all paying for his dc rather than him.

The point is he HAS been paying for them as well as looking after them nearly half of the time. She works full time, ownes a business and has a very expensive car so I really can't work out how she has been given benefits.

DH's x told the CSA dh had never paid anything as well. Silly woman - he had done so by standing order, so he had proof. Have you got bank statements that show any of the purchases?

Is his x being vindictive about this? Or is it a case of her having to claim benefits and has ticked on a form that she has never received maintenance? I guess technically she hasn't, as you haven't given her the money directly but have paid for things instead. Does she realise what is going on for you and the implications?

If he does have arrears, he can pay back the bare minimum. If he only pays the monthly amount, plus a small amount of arrears will that make a difference for you financially?

The other thing is that if the children are with you over a certain number of nights per annum you get a reduction in the amount of maintenance. Have they taken that into account.

Cammelia my dh has also been supporting his dc and has paid the monthly maintenance requested by the CSA for many years. They are asking for arrears wrongly. If they are trying to claw back money paid out in income support to the bm it will be because dh did not earn enough to fully support his dc, despite always working hard and always paying what the csa requested from him. Sorry but feel the need to defend him, absent fathers always seem to get a bit of a bashing and some are very badly treated by the CSA

Purplelollypop I hope you manage to get it sorted out soon and it doesn't have too much of an impact on your family

We have a few repeipts and bank statements to proove some of the purchases but we just haven't kept everything. It's so difficult to proove!
We're getting a small amount deducted but dp's x had said that we have only ever had them for 2 nights a week. The CSA have just believed this without even asking us and we have to start paying immediatly or they'll take the money straight out of this pay. We're in the process of appealing but in the mean time we have no choice but to pay. As well as paying for their childminder as she is refusing to.
We really need to go to court to sort out formal joint resedency but the problem is there is no way we will be able to afford it as well as the CSA payments. I feel sick and so depressed about the whole thing.

Phone them. Tell them you can't afford it. Pay whatever the monthly amount has been assessed at, plus the minimum amount for the arrears until it's sorted out. They messed up dh's payments and he ended up with arrears (their cock-up, not because he wasn't paying). They seemed happy as long as he was paying regularly.

And I'd stop paying the childcare and other expenses too. She can't have it both ways. You either pay her through the CSA and she sorts out their expenses, she stops lying to them so you get a sensible assessment, or you stick to your current arrangement.

We were in a simialr situation a couple of years back (I had ds who was a few months old), and we too were worried about losing our home.

Our success came through our local MP, who I wrote to pleading with him to assist us (was also DPM at the time luckily for us). His office contacted csa and dp got a grovelling phone call the same day, and he was then assessed at having to pay zero! (He was on a terribly low wage and still is.) We also have dsc a lot (not as much as you tho), and support them how ever we can, it is maddening.

All my trust has gone for them though and I often get woried thinking they could just contact us again oh we've changed our mid you owe this amount and we would have to go through it all again! It is shocking really. DP was told on the phone unoffically by a csa worker that it is easier for them to bump up the good payers monthly amounts than chase ellusive non payers, as they need to claw money back and don't care how.

We had done CAB route, wrote, called etc too before we tried MP. However at the time it was so hard to fight them as we didn't have a home phone and couldn't afford one - or pay phone money to call belfast , I was scraping coppers for bread. Genuinely couldn't afford stamps and phone calls at the time.

Thanks Surfer. DP's had several phone conversations with them already and they keep telling him that he has to apppeal but in the mean time they will take what they want from him by direct debit. Will have another go tomorrow though and try to only pay a small amount of arrears a month.

I know the most sensible thing to do would be to stop paying for anything extra (as the CSA see it as vololntary and will not take it into consideration when a claim has been made)but it would be DSC that would suffer for it. Also as we organised the childminder we're still liable to pay her.
All DP is doing is being a great father and doing everything he can for them. It is us that take them to the dentist, optician, apply for schools, organise birthday parties etc. It seems so ironic that at a time that there is so much talk of the effect that having an absent father has on children, an agency set up by the government is doing its best to deter fathers trying to do their best.

Sounds like you've had a dreadful time Kay. I know that contacting our local MP can be an option. It's definatly something that we will think about if the appeal fails. I'm so glad it worked out for you, it seams rare that the CSA works for anyone!
We had suspected that they penalise the easy targets. It's so sickening!

Dh wouldn't pay by direct debit for exactly this reason. He pays by standing order so that he is in control of what he pays.

I understand completely what you're saying about it's the DSC's that suffer. But you can't pay for things if you don't have the money. And if the alternative is you moving to a one bedroomed house and not seeing them, isn't that going to be worse for them?

Why is it you that have arranged the child care?

We've arranged childcare because it is us that does everything. I know that seems like a bold statement but DPs x seems faily unmotivated when it comes to organising anything for the children. It was us that applied to their schools, arranged music lessone etc .

I know, we must stop paying for as much as we possible can for the children. You're right, it's better for them to have a home here with us.

Sounds like they are lucky to have you .

Thanks surfermum. Had long chat with DP about it yesterday and we agreed that we just have to fight it and not let ourselves get down.

Hi purplelollypop, my dh refuses to pay by direct debit also, because the csa miscalculate his maintenance so often. He pays them each month using online banking. Can you cancel the direct debit, or even switch bank accounts?

If you are paying for childminder, can you pay her using childcare vouchers? These are deducted from your dps salary at source, and paid direct to the childcare provider. So your dps takehome salary would be lower, the childminder would still get paid, and your maintenance assessment may fall because of the lower net income. You also don't get taxed on the childcare vouchers so it works out cheaper for you.

Surfermum is right, it does sound like the dcs are lucky to have you. In the longer term would it be worth applying for majority custody? Then your dp would be the parent with care in the eyes of the csa. A bit extreme perhaps but doesn't sound like it would make much difference in terms of the care you already offer the dcs.

Thanks Scoobi. We've been discussing applying for majority custody and I think it is the only way forward now.
We looked into childcare vouchers a while ago but were told that we couldn't get them unless we were the main carer! It seem irrelevent that we are the main contributer. There is no way for the non resident parent to get a fair deal in this situation.
Anyway DP is cancelling the standing order today and telling the CSA that we will only be able to afford to pay £5 a month arrears. So that means monthly payments will be down to around £800 a month. Still quite unaffordable but a bit better.
And thanks so much again for letting us know about the nacca. We're going to get some help from them and it all seems slightly more managable now somehow.

Sorry, mean NACSA!

So. DP just been told by CSA (who seem completly unable to do simple maths) that the money in arrears is to cover not only benefits the x is receiving/ has received but also to cover child benefit. When he queried this (everyone gets child benefit, if they were living together they would still get it and he wouldn't be expected to pay anything back towards it) he was told 'that's just the way it is'. Why is this allowed to go on! The more I learn about the CSA the more angry I feel!

I think they were talking out of their @rse.

When dh queried why they needed details of my income, why that was taken into account when deciding his payments, they told him that it all evens itself out, as the father of my children would be paying me maintenance so I wouldn't be losing out.

Cheeky bastards! I hadn't had any children at that stage, so it meant that my income was reduced as I had to pay money towards a child that wasn't mine, and who dh wasn't being allowed to see (at that time, court order sorted it out). Meanwhile dh's x had moved new Daddy in (the weekend he moved out) and his income wasn't taken into account at all.

I'd forgotten how angry I used to get .