Holidays with kids and ex - discuss

[Meeeh]

Maybe this is an AIBU post but putting it here for expertise in this forum.

Me: nasty divorce and poor ongoing communications with ex husband
Him: very amicable relationship with ex wife

His children have asked that their mother come skiing with them and him in the Easter holidays . Needless to say I’m less than thrilled.

Would like to hear from all sides and from those who may have a situation where there is heavy involvement with the ex partner.

Me and my ex are taking the kids away together this year.
But we’re both single and have no other children to think of. So big difference. I think your dp would be very unreasonable to go ahead with a holiday when he CHOSE to move his life forward with you, his partner.

Totally agree with @Magda72

It would be a no from me.

They are divorced and it’s confusing for the kids and insulting to you.

kylie I am invited but I don’t like his ex, she has tried to cause issue’s between us and even before that I just don’t like it, I have 3 kids with my ex and don’t feel any need or desire to have joint birthday parties.
He thinks it’s harmless and “for the kids” his parents used to still do things like that even after separating, my parents also used to do things like that and meals with extended family after separating and I hated it. So we have different viewpoints and experiences of it.

The teen is meddling, the dad needs to say no, that’s that. They do lots together and this isn’t necessary

It’s a no from me - the kids are teens and they’re not stupid! Mummy and daddy aren’t together so we will not be doing holidays together. It’s sending the wrong signal to the kids!!! If the ex wife had a partner I rly doubt she would be wanting to tag along to this as I’m sure her partner wouldn’t be too pleased.

I think you need to say something to your partner on this. It’s not acceptable and not right. If anything it should be you going

Your DP needs to look beyond the holiday. Two scenarios:

1. the holiday is awful and uncomfortable, everyone is miserable, especially the teen driving it because they didn’t get their dream family holiday. Result: Confused and sad teen who thought they could magic up their old family.

2. the holiday is loads of fun and the whole family get on brilliantly. Then what? Teen comes home to the reality of divorced parents who are not getting back together just because they had a nice week skiing with their dc. Result: Confused and sad teen who thought they could magic up their old family.

There’s a middle ground of course where the holiday is fine but not amazing. Even then there will be a confused and sad teen who thought there would be a magic outcome where there is none.

No for so many reasons.
It is really not helping the kids accept the reality of divorced parents.
I am amazed your partner is even considering it
I often feel a little sad that if you get on so well with your ex couldn’t you have just worked a bit harder at the marriage.
But in this case I think the teen is shit stirring and old enough to know better. She’s not 5 !

A lot of assumptions here. Totally get not being too happy about it, I wouldn't either, but the whole thing about confusing the kids is just an excuse. These are teenagers, whose parents have been divorced for some time. I'm sure they've moved on from the fantasy of them being back together. That doesn't have to stop liking the idea of a joint holiday.

My DD good friend is in a similar situation. Her parents have remained good friends and they have gone on joint holidays in the past. She's not confused, she's a very well adjusted mature girl who says she is grateful her parents have managed to stay friends.

@Dontdisturbmenow

Yes it is reading between the lines, they may not be confused or hoping their parents will get back together. But I imagine a lot of people will have inferred this was a possibility from OP saying he carries a lot of guilt about the separation still, which he probably wouldn't if they were well adjusted.

In any case, that was only one of the reasons this is out of line.

#Dontdisturbmenow
There is a huge difference between being friends and acting like a family. Your friend is happy that they were friendly not fighting. Not for holidays with them.
This holidays and family meals are not for children, its for parents. They can not move on and trying to fool themselves. Children will go along for their parents sake.

OP say they are very amicable and it is the kids who've asked so it is about the kids with two parents getting along well.

The only reason it is an issue is because OP is not happy about it. If the dad wasn't in a relationship, no one would bat an eye lid. So it is about OP. Although again, I wouldn't like much it if I was OP.

No it is not about the Op. It is about her partner not having clear boundaries of what is acceptable and what isn’t.

He has chosen to get into a long term committed relationship and with that comes expectations. Which given the vast majority of responses on this the read, most people would expect their partner not to go on a family holiday with the ex husband.

This really is not complicated. The only people who think this acceptable I warrant have unhealthy emotional boundaries themselves (probably because as a formative teenager they weren’t parented around what boundaries look like themselves).

I too have a friend who had step parents on both sides. Both parents did a poor job setting boundaries of what acceptable looks like. To this day as a clued up, super smart women in her 40’s, she struggles to understand why the vast majority of people (ex boyfriends especially) struggle massively with her thinking and actions.

To me (and a lot of other people), she is simply unboundaried. Sweetest person and biggest heart, but not a clue. She now admits that understanding boundaries is the hardest thing she has ever had to learn.

Holidaying with an ex when you have a new partner. No. And the teen needs to be sat down and spoken to about why it is inappropriate. So that they move forward in life with more understanding. Otherwise in 10 years this will be the person holidaying with an ex and not understanding when they return from said holiday that they are dumped. (As happened with my friend).

It is about her partner not having clear boundaries of what is acceptable and what isn’t

But it's only OP who want clear boundaries. There is no rule that say that couple who separate have to have clear boundaries. Some people separate and never ever want anything to do with each other, burn every pictures, and break contact with common friends. Others remain good friends. Some break contact with their ex but remain in very close contact with the family of their ex.

Of course, as a new partner, it's much easier to deal with an ex who is completely out of the picture, but it doesn't have to be that way.

I don't agree that because you commit to someone, you have to obligatory stop a friendship with an ex, especially when that commitment is not yet at the stage of sharing a household.

Whether it is acceptable depends on a number of factors. As OP ever worried that there were still feelings for each other. Have there been any signs that one of the two would wish to get back. How do they act when they are together, like exes or like friends. Have they gone away on holiday before and if so what was the set-up, ie, did they spend all their time together etc...

Ultimately, it sounds like he hasn't agreed yet, so it is unclear whether it is something he really wants to do but doesn't want it to cost his relationship with OP, or is he waiting to find a way to his kids and ex that it's something he doesn't really want to do.

Yes & op is in this relationship & she is entitled to ask for & have clear boundaries. If her dp doesn't want to give her those then that's his prerogative but I can guarantee you that like @sassbott's friend he will find himself dumped by any/every woman he gets into a relationship with. And if op stays with him despite being unhappy with his boundaries it will make for one very unhappy relationship.
@sassbott everything you say is absolutely spot on.

Don't know why that's in bold.

I don't think it's confusing to the kids. The fact that they asked if their mum could come shows that know it's not the norm.

They know their parents are divorced. Perhaps they feel mum can't afford this kind of holiday and it would be fun to do together.

I'd see it as more of an activity holiday.

If your BF felt it was inappropriate or didn't want her to come along, you wouldn't have even heard about it.

I think because they get on so well, their kids don't see an issue, whereas your kids would never suggest it because of the nature of your split.

Seeing as you live separately, I'd let your BF decide if he wants her along. I wouldn't feel I had the right to take something the children wanted away...if they find out that their mum can't come because you feel uncomfortable...your relationship with them will ho downhill.

Now...I wouldn't be thrilled, but I see how much better children from split families do generally and it minimises the impact on their mental health as they grow up if the split and the ongoing relationship with their parents is good. Not just civil...but good. So I'd let it happen and be fine with it, because of what I've learned.

I know people will say they came from divorced families and they're fine...or their kids are fine..but coming from a divorced family puts increases your risk factor to develop a mental health problem.

if they find out that their mum can't come because you feel uncomfortable...your relationship with them will ho downhill

With respect, I'd feel more concerned about how my relationship with my partner would go downhill if my boundaries were being so severely breached, that's allowed to be the partner's priority in this scenario. It would naturally be more important to me than whether the kids would enjoy a holiday with both parents or be annoyed at me. Having a perfect relationship with your step kids isn't worth much when you're not happy in your relationship with their dad.

I wouldn't feel I had the right to take something the children wanted away.

I do this daily as a parent. My job is to regularly say no and explain why it’s a no.
Like why they can’t play certain games until they reach a certain age. Same with social media. Same with wanting an expensive phone/ laptop/ tablet/ gaming pc.

Wanting does not equate getting.

Why are so many parents failing to hammer this message home? Mental health issues are on the increase because of the lack of mental/ emotional resiliency. And because of society’s slow catch up on how we handle tech impacting how we live and interact.

Divorce is one factor. That and saying no to your children when situations are not appropriate.

With respect, I'd feel more concerned about how my relationship with my partner would go downhill if my boundaries were being so severely breached, that's allowed to be the partner's priority in this scenario

That's because you're only seeing your personal POV and not looking at the situation holistically... which most people do.

I'm looking at it objectively and I don't think this is a matter of boundaries as a few pp have said. There's no need to sit the kids down and say separated parents cannot holiday together...because it's not factual and it's not a rule. I've seen lots of boundary issues posted on threads here...I don't really see this as one, even though I totally accept a lot of people will be uncomfortable with it.

As for regularly saying no to children...that may be the case if you have young ones...but with my teens I don't really have to say no on a regular basis...if all kids ever hear is no no no...something isn't right.

Perhaps my view differs because I see real life situations and hear the voices of the children and adults who are going through and who went through these situations. A parent will feel so much better with the notion of resilience and bouncing back, as it eases any feelings of guilt they may have.

The attitude of parents that life has changed, so accept it and move one and get on with it, is one of the reasons kids reach out for help in the form of talking therapies.

A relationship where your partner gets on so well with their Ex is not something everyone can handle, you feel as you do, but that doesn't make their friendly amicable relationship right or wrong.

It seems to be the new and hip norm that people are trying to go with. Don't get it personally and wouldn't do it. It's the whole it's all about the kids and they should be the focus- which I get but I also think it blurs the lines too much for me. I wouldn't be concerned a partner did this- but after three years I'd expect to be more involved in their family life than their ex wife is.

Me & XH took DD6 on holiday to Disneyland Paris together last year. It was fine, we always put DD first and so we are able to spend time together at Christmas, birthdays etc for her sake.
However neither of us have other partners at the moment.
If you don't live together and don't blend together with the children then why not?

Good grief! No way!!

It's lovely they have occasional meals etc together, but go away on holiday! No way!

They're not a family unit anymore. Plus they'd prob shag. I went away with ex and our kids for a long weekend for an unusual reason. I hate his guts, we still had a bit of slap and tickle. How can you not? You remember the old times and how it used to be.

No it just so many ways it's wrong. You should be going with him not her.

Yabu, their focus is their kids, I go on holiday with my ex and the DC, nothing untoward at all.

@MidniteMessenger and you both have partners?

Yes & op is in this relationship & she is entitled to ask for & have clear boundaries. If her dp doesn't want to give her those then that's his prerogative but I can guarantee you that like @sassbott's friend he will find himself dumped by any/every woman he gets into a relationship with
I agree with the former, of course Stefan ask and of course he can disagree. I don't agree that means he would be dumped by any woman. Who knows he could meet one who does the same with her ex.

As said, there are many factors that comes into it. How solid their relationship is, the level of trust between them, how he makes OP feels lived and secure or on the opposite, always left doubt as to his feelings for his ex etc...

I could imagine a situation where I'd be fine with it, but that would be feeling 100% secure in my relationship and all vibes making be believe there is nothing left between them but friendship.