Refusing Contact

[egh1987]

Hi guys,

So after a hard few months with BM constantly ringing, and a lot of arguments and flips between SS and BM, SS has landed at ours last week for the foreseeable future. OH and I have had a much better and easier week with him at ours, and SS has been so much happier. But BM has obviously been asking SS to ring her etc (am not sure why she won't ring SS tbh, seeing as she's the adult and he's 11!) but he is refusing point blank to chat to BM or her partner.

OH and I have obviously discussed and agreed that it's the best thing to just stick to the old plan (he visited us on Thursdays and every other weekend) but vice versa (so visiting her on Thursdays and every other weekend). This weekend coming is our weekend....so I've suggested we have him go to BM's on Thursday, because it's just for one night, and would be easier than going for the whole weekend to begin with. We are going to talk to SS tonight. But he will refuse. He doesn't want anything to do with BM or her partner atm, but OH and I also know he has to go there, she's entitled to see him, and for our own relationship we need space every now and then.

Any tips on how to go around this?

We're going to chat with SS tonight about all these logistics, and hopefully get him to chat to BM on the phone.

Thanks!

what exactly has happened?

You have decided that you will reverse the contact pattern. Doesn't his mum get a say in that? Does it not depend on what has happened? Will he be safe with his mum and step dad?

You are correct in thinking he needs to see his mum - but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to stay overnight. Particularly if something has happened that needs to be sorted out first.

She's his mum. Doesn't need the 'birth' qualifier.

Nothing specific has happened, they just can't get along. THey're constantly shouting at each other, and SS has begged us to come live with us saying he can't live with BM. They are both very similar characters....and lately they have been clashing unbelievably. BM used to ring us every night saying they were arguing, and it got to the stage that neither OH nor I could cope anymore, and when SS rang breaking his heart last week, BM said he had to come to us, and SS begged for that to happen. She constantly says she can't cope with him.

Of course his mum will get a say in everything, but unfortunately there is no discussing with her, she can't talk, just shout and demand. So we are thinking of going for legal advice to see what our next step should be with regards to suggesting a formal pattern. He will be safe with them, he just might not like the idea of being there, but OH and I agree that the sooner the first contact the better.

I understand where you're coming from Sotiredofthislife, but I also feel SS is twisting everyone around his little finger at the moment, and he has to understand that life isn't always easy and full of roses.

I don't mean to sound heavy handed, I'm from a broken family, and understand exactly why he doesn't want to see his BM, but in a selfish way, I need my time with OH too. I'm currently recovering from an operation and complications, and feel like I haven't really had time to properly recover in my own time, which is fine, but I just want all this sorted and not sure how to go about it.

Sorry for the long message

Oh jeez you poor thing, hard enough going from eow and a night to almost full time without the addition of a crazy BM too.

Would your OH want to keep the new situation long term? If so how do you feel about this? Is it something you can cope with? What affect is it likely to have on relationship? I know others will say you knew what you were getting into but they are wrong and this is not what you signed up for

Unless there is some form of abuse involved it really isn't in your ss's best interests for him to stop contact with his dm - can this be explained to him in an age appropriate way? I really do get how you feel about him winding people around his little finger. Kids will do this & they will want to be in the house with the least challenges.
Similar but different - my dd was refusing to go to her dad's when her half sibling was born as she was very put out (she was 10 at the time). Exh was inclined to give in to her as he didn't want rows but I put my foot down & said no way to both of them.
I explained to dd that she would grow to love her db but that in order to do so she'd have to spend time with him, & that she'd regret not spending this time with her dad when she's older & that it was in her best interests to embrace that new family unit. I also did say to her that I work very hard & that it wasn't fair on me to be expected to do all the parenting also just because she was annoyed at her dad.
In fairness to her she got it & 4 years later she's the world's best big sister.
Is there any way you can appeal to his dm to calm down when dealing with him?

Thanks Tyersal. She is seriously crazy! Just doesn't want to co-operate at all.

I'm also recovering from getting my gallbladder removed three weeks ago, but have had a few complications and awful infections since which has meant another surgery since, so I'm obviously feeling run down at the best, so this has all come at awful timing really. But I can already see that when he's with us, he's happier, and we know where we stand, and not expecting phone calls every night.

My OH and I both feel that we think the new situation is what's best for SS in the long term. And no it's not going to be easy. And am I scared it will affect me and OH? Terrified. But I also know we couldn't have carried on having her like she was before. And I like to think our relationship is strong enough to do this. I just need somewhere like this to vent!

My partner works as a driver so doesn't know from one day to the next what his hours are, so this makes it a bit hard atm (as I'm not currently driving either), but we are in the process of putting childcare in place for mornings when both of us won't be around.

I just don't know how to get around and through to SS that he has to speak to BM...he is only 11, and I feel there's pressure on us to ensure this happens.

@Magda72 - thanks for your comments. It sounds like the same situation (but different). Our next move is to sit him down tonight hopefully and explain that it is better for him to be friends with mum and dad, no matter who he lives with etc. I just know that if he'll start having a sulk and flip that he doesn't want to chat to her, OH will give in.

Yes maybe I am also being selfish, but I do want my nights and time with OH too....I'm happy for him to live with us, but on the condition that we get our time too.

Easier said than done but your OH needs to put sooner boundaries in place. Can he mute his phone? Or just ignore it? Get a new number specifically for BM that is used for BM only?

It's sad that SS is struggling with her but in a "normal" family he wouldn't have the choice to just move out.

YOU ARE NOT BEING SELFISH. If you don't prioritise you no one will

Completely sympathise, what a nuclear bomb to go off in your life!

Has SS been allowed to have any space at all from his mother? sounds like they have clashed to a point where he can't deal with anything any more. Clearly the home she offers with her new H is unsuitable for DSS and he feels safer and happier with you/your h. thank god he has that option.

Now, while I appreciate that this has come as a shock, this boy is not tiny, he is 11, so should not need too much in the way of supervision/childcare.

Absolutely you need to have couple time (all relationships benefit from it) so you and DH need to arrange a sitter so you can go out. Does DSS have mates nearby? sleepovers can be arranged for overnight stays etc.

When you are back at work, you talk about childcare in the mornings? can he not get himself ready with a bit of support?

You absolutely can make this work, and I would suggest that DSS is allowed a bit of time to relax and recover a little, and his DM needs to respect that, and once he's had a couple of weeks to cool down, a phone call would be good, and then perhaps a meeting in neutral territory

I would not send him for overnight stays for the foreseeable future. He needs to feel safe and supported.

Thanks MzHz, it does feel like a bit od a nuclear bomb, especially seeing as I’m not 100% atm!!

SS has been with us a week (but was with us for the 4 days before that and only home for a few hours after school before he rang ringing to stay with us). Since then he hasn’t spoken to him at all. OH has been getting txts from BM’s partner saying BM is heartbroken and asking SS to ring but he just refuses to speak to them. You’ve knocked it on the head, this has been coming for a while, and it all came to a head last week. They’ve not been getting along foe ages but this is something else! I can see for myself how much happier and more carefree he is at ours, and am so glad. Plus at least we know where we stand and don’t have to expect phone calls from bm!

Unfortunately, he is a bit immature for an 11 yr old. He wouldn’t be alone at home, he’s petrified of everything! He’s good at getting himself ready etc, but the school is around 4 miles away hence why we need someone for the morning. We’ve got a family friend now who’s happy to come over 7am in the mornings (so me and OH can leave for work), and take ss to school.

I think on a selfish note, I’m struggling at the moment cause there are no plans for me and OH to have our time. I understand we shouldn’t pressure Ss to go to his mum’s, but we also feel like delaying him talking to her is going to make it eventually harder. Ss hasn’t really got that many mates especially around our house, and he wouldn’t do sleepovers cause he hates the dark!!!

I know we can defo make this work, I just need to be strong and remind myself this. I think it’s hard atm cause I haven’t got any routine as I’m off work. Currently I’m with him loads and feel I never get time with OH, but I need to stop thinking like that or it will get to me.

I know this is the best thing for SS, but I also know it’s not going to be easy. I know I need to be patient, but I just want to know we have an arrangement in place which means me and oh have our time alone, like we used to, cause the last thing I want is to start resenting ss. I’m sure it won’t get to that and I just need to stick to it, but having somewhere to vent is a godsend! Thank you x

I think the fact you have been ill and have had surgeries too will be exacerbating this situation, but you are doing the right thing, he will grow in confidence shortly and he will become less needing of supervision in the near future. There is a lot to be positive about.

That is some good friend of yours to come and help you with him of a morning! what a star! Friends are absolutely the best sometimes!

I think that the DM and her OH need to back off for a while, he's clearly doing the job of flying monkey, and by the sounds of it, something happened to tip DSS over the threshold into never wanting to see them again.

In a matter of a year or 2 courts would take DSS opinion into account, so if he doesn't want to see her, he wouldn't be made to more often than not.

I do think that your H needs to communicate that for now DSS is happy and doesn't want to chat or meet, that you will keep asking him if he wants to make contact and will actively encourage him to do so, but that his DM and her OH can't demand or insist, as this is what has caused the situation in the first place, if they carry on down this path, DSS will most likely make the radio silence a permanent thing, and nobody really wants that to happen. So DH informs them that he will send updates as and when he has them, but for now DSS is safe and happy and living with you both. Then I would block them both to buy you all some peace and quiet.

Are there any clubs or stuff he could get into, to make more friends and give you all a bit of a breather while he gets a distraction?

@egh1987. My dsis had her gallbladder removed a few years ago & honestly it's a hard thing to recover from. She was below par for months. I know you have to step up as dss is only 11 but I honestly don't think your dh giving into him is in either dss's or your best interests. You need some recovery time & this issue with his dm needs to get sorted whatever the outcome of it.

Yeah my mum has her gall bladder out a few years ago and said it was the worst she’d ever felt in her life before the op.

hanks for all your comments. Sorry it’s taken a while to respond.

So, just to clarify, it hasn’t been a rash decision to have SS with us, nor have we made any agreements as to how things will work in the long run with regards to contact. Both OH and I would like to do this in a sensible manner and talk to BM and discuss, but unfortunately she can’t discuss anything ever. So we have been advised to go for legal advice.

If I were reading my message from the outside, I would also think SS is just being a manipulative sod, and doesn’t like being told off, but having seen him absolutely breaking his heart last week, we realise damage has been done to his relationship with BM.
We’ve been having phonecalls from BM for around 6 months telling us SS will have to come live with us, but she never followed through with it. I can’t believe the change I’ve seen in SS since he’s been here - in the three years I’ve been with my partner I have never known SS to be so likeable, loving and carefree, full of laughter.

We sat him down tonight and explained that from next week, things will be changing a bit - I’m going back to work after my operation, so for half term he’s going to a summer camp, and then when school’s back, we’ve arranged childcare/school run in the mornings.

We also explained that he needs to think about contacting his mum. He told us how hurt he is with things she used to say to him, and how he felt she threatened him with coming to live here. He asked us for a little time to think what he wants to stay.

And we asked him how he felt. He said he was happy, and liked it here. We told him we’re all going to have off days, and there will be arguments, but he can’t just decide if he’s told
Off that he wants to live with BM. And if that’s the decision he eventually makes, that will be permanent, he won’t be able to switch from hers to ours

For the past few months CAMHS and Team Around The Family have been closely involved with Ss, BM and us. CAMHS said there were no issues except for BM’s parenting. OH and I agreed to go on a parenting course, and BM has too, but she’s said she didn’t feel it helped. The school has been also closely involved with us all.

This morning, I spoke to our contact at the team around the family for a long time, as we wanted advice, and she said that they felt it was in SS’s best interest to be with us, where there is more routine, boundaries and discipline. We talked about the possibility of mediation between us and BM, as well as mediation between SS and BM, but in time as they feel he needs time to deal with this at his pace. The school have also said they think it’s in SS’s best interest, and have seen progress since he’s been with us.

I take on board all of your comments, and I know it sounds like we’re doing this to spite BM, but we aren’t. I’m from a broken family myself and had a troublesome relationship with my dad, so I know a thing or two about how hard it can be, but also how important it is to build bridges (like we explained to ss tonight).

I’m finding it hard at the moment that there’s no arrangement in place so OH and I can have time together, but I think that’s also something I have to give time to. The last thing we want to do is push SS to stay with BM which leads to more arguing.

I appreciate this as a place to vent, thanks x

I don’t see that this is something down to spite his DM, To me it’s clear that you’re all stepping up and perhaps it was like a slow car crash and was always going to happen.

That boy is lucky to have you both as an option.

I know it’s a shock, but once this dust has settled a bit I’m sure that you and your h will work things out so that the whole work/life/family/marriage balance works for you all.

You’ve seen a massive improvement in him in days, imagine how much stronger and happier he will be as time goes on.

Is it possible to suggest to BM to go to counselling with her son? I never found it easy dealing with my son who's the same age and a child psychologist helped us. My son is abandonned by his father, so there was no option for him to go live elsewhere.

It’s DM, not BM.

Sorry, but it really is.

She may not be a good mum, but she is his mother.

I read too that she said she would go on a parenting course but didn’t

By the sounds of it there could be some behaviour akin to emotional abuse, counselling in these circumstances is never advised

Can I show my ignorance - what does DM stand for?!

DM = Dear/Darling mother, like DH is Dear/darling husband. It’s Mumsnet shorthand that you’re not obliged to use.

Some posters will police your language and not allow you to use “birth mother” because to them it is a term used only in adoption, and must never be used as a synonym for mother, especially if the user is a stepmother.

Personally I couldn’t care less if you called me a birth mother, but I think it’s probably easier to go along with this ‘rule’ to avoid your thread being jumped on and derailed.

Ah okay, sorry!!! On another forum they use BM for biological mother and that’s what I’m used to using, so sorry if I offended anyone - not used to this!

Mzhz not necessarily D doesn't sound very accurate in this case does it

I also slip into BM because of all the other step parenting groups I’m on, it’s daisy done but good old mumsnet will vilify you

*easily sorry! Sigh forever wishing there was an edit button!

Oh I completely agree that D is not an accurate description here, but there is no need to say biological or birth mother when the woman is the kid’s mother.

@egh1987 knows I’m 100% behind her, I’m absolutely not having a pop, but a mother is a mother even if she’s a crap one.

Thank you all guys.

I am struggling, mostly when I come to be and everyone else is sleeping, when I get time to dwell! I struggle with not knowing when I’ll get time with OH next, it’s been two weeks and I feel we haven’t really had time together. And I miss it. X