rude stepkids

[bbysloth]

Hi everyone - I’m 20 weeks pregnant and am dealing with 2 stepsons that have been mean and passive aggressive towards me ever since they had found out I was having a baby. They are 14 and 11. We believe the 14 year old had convinced the 11 year old to go against me. The 11 y/o is no angel either and often seems like he does not care about anyone except himself. This has been going on for about 2 months now, with extreme tension in the house every time we are all around. Here are some examples of things they had done….

-14 y/o would talk really loudly in his room (so that we can hear) about how he can stop spending time with his dads side of the family after 4 more years, counting down the days he turns 18.

-14 y/o used to love my cat, and now he would purposely talk about how much he hates the cat to get under my skin. He once dangled a cat toy in front of the cat and then threw it at his head. He also purposely ignores me in a very passive aggressive way, one in which I can’t exactly describe with words but if you saw it, you can feel the anger and tension.

-the 11 y/o wrote a text to his mom about how he wishes my cat were slaughtered. And that him and his brother are being as passive aggressive as they can

They had problems before - 14 y/o always saying he hates people. And both of them never really acknowledge new people or say hi when someone comes in the house. The 11 y/o has also been mocking his dad for being more strict on him, and nothing seems to stick whenever he is told what to do. The 14 y/o is on another level when it comes to holding a grudge - will never talk about his emotions when something is bothering him and can stay locked up a whole entire day in his room for no reason. I had 3 of my friends babysit them and say they are the worst. The dad had said that others have said they are helpful in other situations, I’m not sure if they it’s because they act differently in different situations or he only gets a filter of positive things people say, i’m sure a mix of both.

THey had reacted way worse to baby news than the divorce.

The brothers did not always get along - in fact they seemed to hate each other a lot at points. The 14 y/o would terrorize his younger brother. I saw him pushing his brother off a chair head down once. And I saw the 14 y/o pretending to play fight and smacking his brother as hard as he can across the head while he had a smile on.

Now- the 14 y/o is pretending to be best friends with his brother to try to shut me out of the family and ignore me. Funny enough, he tried to be best friends with me this past summer in order to do the same thing to his brother (clearly, before I was pregnant). Their dad mentioned this in the therapist office with the 14 y/o and he did not deny it.

A little bit more background on the kids - the go to a private school on the upper east side in NYC (which I hate and I think it’s doing them disservice and turning them less empathetic people, especially people that are different). I had told the dad he should get them out of that school because they act like entitled brats and they need to see and learn to empathize with the real world, along with a lot of therapy and volunteer work. Also —the mom is extremely manipulative and narcissistic, so they kids take after her. I am unfortunately in love with a man who got manipulated year after year and I am working on toughening him up to stand up to all 3 of them (kids and her) when they are rude.

I had convinced the dad to finally send them to their moms for a while until they can get enough therapy to behave better. The 14 year old had just started seeing a therapist and I think the other kid should start too.

I know kids change a lot year by year, but I am afraid these are not the typical kids and they will simply harbor a toxic environment for my family. I have so much anxiety about raising a baby around these 2 — is it wrong for me to say they should stay with their mom for the near future because I do not see them improving anytime soon enough not to intoxicate our baby and family? I would love for them to change and accept them once they stop being rude, but based on what I know about them, I really don't think they will. I don't think people can change that much and fast in general.

I understand the dad will always love them and still have a relationship with the kids and I encourage him to see them often, I just do not think it's worth it for them to stay here and spread tension and hatred unto a household that is trying to simply live and be happy and teach a new baby good values.

If they sense they're not wanted they will become worse.

Really honestly, even if they were showing signs of improvement do you want them around? It sounds like you want their dad, but not them.

You sound completely uninterested in having a relationship with them. How will that improve when the baby arrives?

I would love to hear the boys' side of this story.

They're his children - no, he can't just bin them off because they're hitting their teens and behaving poorly. Many, many children suffer with feeling pushed aside when a new sibling is on the way, even without a split family and a cold stepmother in the equation - and their behaviour can be challenging as a result - this does not make them bad children, and they won't "intoxicate" your perfect baby

Their father sending them away and leaving the other parent to all the parenting until you decide they are behaved well enough won't help anything. He's as much responsible for how is children have turned out as their other parent is, would you send you own child away if they turn out to be rude. Would you send your own child away for bad behaviour?

Maybe part of their acting out is because they don't feel secure in their Dads home, maybe they've picked up that their father will only parent his children if the children behave a certain way and know they could be sent away.

How often were the children with their Father before you've made them live with mum?

I'm not saying for one second you should put up with rude children but their father is as much responsible for his children as the woman he co parents with. Opting out until they have met the conditions he's set doesn't sound wise. Would you be happy if mums husband decides they're coming to live with you full because their step dad doesn't want them until a, b or c?

What kind of things has your husband done already to deal his children's behaviour? Has he not sorted therapy himself beforehand? People may be able to advice him on other things to try and you say what he's already tried people here may suggest other things.

They sound like two very disturbed children. What have their parents done to them?

They are still children, do they get hugs, smiles and signs of fondness or affection?

Iv a feeling your going to get slammed on this thread..for what it is worth i was in similar circumstances with ex's children and was also pregnant..i sympathise...what hurt me most was the fact i tried so hard and some of the behaviour i endured was alarming. My biggest worry was what impact the negative behaviour would have around baby but i continued to try. Wishful thinking would have you believe when baby arrives they will be in total awe and everything will settle down..this will not happen...it is easy to blame the children but you will come to realise it is usually down to parenting and issues in the past that are the cause of dss behaviour. I really feel for the situation you are in..iv been nc with ex for nearly 2yrs and i was still getting shit from his kids until recently.

turkeyontheplate - you are making some stark assumptions. i was never a cold stepmother, i had always tried to engage and play with them even when they were not warm to me. it has gotten tiring to be bullied by them all the time. I am also not saying my baby is perfect, but will be able to sense stress/tension/negativity. and that is not good for anyone in the house - not only the baby.
also, the kids prefer to stay at their moms - I should have made this more clear, but the dad did not "send them away" - he gave them a choice. right now they'd rather stay with the mom because they are happier there since they cannot control their need to be rude to a baby at our place.

I'd love to read their version, you want to separate them from their Dad, their school, anything else you want to take away?

Sending them back to their mothers until they've had enough therapy to behave? Really? That's just batshit.
Children learn to behave from their carers, not some therapist they see once in a blue moon. You clearly don't want them around now there's a new baby in the way. You're also trying to change your dp into something else.
Their behaviour is quite normal for children in their situation. A couple of stroppy teens pushing the boundaries, and you've fallen for it. It's interesting that you say the older boy talks loudly about stopping visiting when he's 18. If he's that bothered about visiting now, why force him? His DF should sit down with him and ask him how he feels. Not in a therapists office, but at home, on the sofa, without a stranger there.

You should have them over individually and dad should spend time with them

OP, this is MN, you are a step mother. Therefore you will be deemed 'in the wrong' no matter what you say or do.

The step parenting board used to be a great place for STEP PARENTS to get advice/vent/chat about the many hurdles , upsets and joy that creating a blended family brings. Sadly this has now changed and the board is haunted by people who have a particular gripe against (mostly) step mothers. Be they step children who did not have a positive relationship with their own step mother or first wives who have been left for another woman.. Rarely will you get a helpful reply from someone who has been in the same position as you. Where you live your husband but are finding it hard to bond with his children.. but I will try...

One of the things that jumped out at me from your post, was the story about the cat. Your step sons sound extremely disturbed. One of the most common traits for sociopathic behaviour is cruelty to animals. It demonstrates a particular lack of empathy that should be present at their ages.
They sound way beyond 'playing up' but like children who need some serious psychological/psychiatric evaluation and if this is not done by the time the baby arrives, then no. I would not want them around. You have as much right to keep your baby safe as the next woman.

If there is no issue/diagnosis following evaluation, then their father needs to step up with the discipline . I have 4 step children who I adore and 3 of my own. None of them are allowed to be rude to me or DH. We discipline our own dcs but loss of privileges is the way we both go in the face of rudeness. (Phones, ipads consuls removed, refusal to ferry them to friends houses etc)

The step parenting board used to be a great place for STEP PARENTS to get advice/vent/chat about the many hurdles , upsets and joy that creating a blended family brings. Sadly this has now changed and the board is haunted by people who have a particular gripe against (mostly) step mothers

I've been on MN for over ten years. I certainly remember a time when certain step mothers on were having a great time slagging their step children off in pretty vicious ways and referring to step daughters as "mini wives" and posting really weird threads about daughters cuddling fathers too much to make step mothers jealous etc. There was definitely a cohort of weirdos that influenced the board and fortunately it was noted and addressed both by other posters and MNHQ. Is that the time you're talking about?

Anyway OP, I'm not sure that you sound like you hate them, rather that you have compartmentalised them and as a relative outsider the options seem clear such as their school plus it's so clear they don't want to be there it feels easier to just have them remain with their mother. They do sound really difficult and i do think step mothers get a very raw deal in situations like this. You want to enjoy your pregnancy but cannot fully. The trouble is it's hard to give advice especially at this age because unpicking this stuff is the work of years and needs to be done by their parents not you. Can't really be done in the few months before you give birth. I'd be tempted to be polite and pleasant and take absolutely no shit whatsoever from them. As depressing as it sounds I just don't think blended families work all that often. Everyone has to mostly want it to and if people are working actively against it it's hard to undo that as an outsider. I think I would distance myself, I'd keep my comments about them and their schooling/lives to myself if I were you and just concentrate on your child and managing the environment when your step children are there.

I think you need to read your post and appreciate how you come across - because it is not good.

We do not know enough about your situation and how the divorce affected the DCS, ages etc.Older kids do not always welcome a new baby - concept of Dad having sex, aware they will be pushed aside.

Over whelmingly in your post - you want these kids out of your life and not part of it. You have not said one nice thing about them - seriously you are giving step mums a bad name. I could quite happily never see my middle SDC again but that is not a choice and we have to rub along.

They have learned those values from the people around them and the feelings they get from being around them.

Why don't you tell your husband to divorce his DCS and re start happy clappy life with you and the new one because that is what you want.

You come across as very controlling and expecting your OH to do as you say and see fit. You mention divorce, how long was that? Have they had to adjust to their parents separation, you coming in their lives, and now a new baby in a short period of time?

Ultimately, the decision about whether they should go to private school or not has nothing to do with you. Their parents are entitled to raise them as they see fit. They could be wrong, but that's their perogative at the parents of these kids. Similarly, it's not up to you to decide when they should be sent back to their mum.

Ironically, you come across very similar to what you accuse them and their mother to be, so it's no surprise there's much conflict around, and nobody is liking each other much.

You've decided to bring a child in this environment, sadly you can't make it all smooth and good just because of it. It's going to be tough, and I doubt you'll gharmony harmony you hope for in the next few years. It's likely to only get worse, unless you accept that teenagers are difficult to like anyway, and the circumstances they are under are only going to make them even more rebellious and angry with the world.

Why are these boys living with you and the dad and not with their mother? They are horrible. If anyone threatened a pet in the first place I would kick them out of the house. They are old enough to know we don’t harm animals. So what will they want to do to your baby once he/she is born? I don’t want to imagine.
I can already see that everybody here is blaming you, somehow expecting you to be some kind of psychiatrist who will tame these wild little snots. But other people’s brats are not your responsibility. The father sounds weak, not an authoritarian figure at all. Tell him he has to talk to the boys about their behaviour. I wouldn’t have them around with a new baby in the house. And guard your cat!

Just because I’m venting all things that are wrong now does not mean I’d be uninterested in them if they were accepting. I would love to have a happy family with his kids included, if they stopped being so rude.

He had tried... really, multiple times. The therapist was necessary but not our first resort.

I understand I am coming off cold and lacking of compassion, but that is not the way I am. I had tried for months to understand, be patient and empathetic of these boys despite their negative behaviors. It has been too long and I am losing hope and patience sadly. The dad really has tried everything in terms of talking to them, coddling, and tough love and everything in between. Everyone has their limit.

It sounds like a battle, maybe time to stop and ask them questions.
Why are they saying X, doing Y?
What ideas do they have to make the home happier?
What would they like to be included in?

Yes I want to take away their entitlement! And because they are extreme, I think I should have a say in extreme actions to try to make them better people.

Fighting fire with fire - keeping the battle going?

Not trying to be goady but why did you choose now to bring a baby into the mix? They were like this before you got pregnant how did you think a new baby would improve the situation. Just wondering what your thinking on this is.

I'm a SM so not bashing you.

So you want to stop the boys coming round when your baby arrives?

Yes...cos that will make their behaviour better...