Am I pessimistic or is he deluded?

[SMNOTRP]

Been with DH 5 years, married 2. He split from ex 7 years ago. No kids.

3 Stepkids aged 9, 9, 11. M, F, M. They stay EOW + odd extra w/e. Some of every holiday unless they have plans with extended family on both sides in other parts of UK. Good relationship all round.

Our household income 45K. London. Both work full time but he earns 60%. Currently own 2 bed flat - kids have bunks + double which they rotate when they stay. Maintenance is £365pm.

Ex wife is a nurse working PT because of wrap around childcare issues. Claims CM is too low for her to work FT as local hospital has no vacancies for office hours roles that she could get due to speciality. This has been ongoing issue because she wants more money/clothes/uniforms from my husband when it should be covered by what he gives. Husband took advice from friends to call her bluff and suggest he take kids more/become RP which I didn't think she would agree but she almost bit his hand off. Her friend is going to teach in Dubai and wants someone to house sit from when she leaves in April which would let her pay a smaller amount of rent so she could save to buy her own place as she has been renting since the split at market rate. I know all this because it is what they discussed with a mediator and he literally came back with notes to explain her points and suggestions for how it could work. Kids are okay with it too.

Situation now is that we are going to have to get a bigger place which will mean more money. Plus pay for food etc extra Bill's and she only gives £250pm maintenance for it all. Commute and everything will be on us. She will have them 2 nights a week minimum according to her schedule as she is going to do a Masters and stay part-time. She wants to do this because she said it will boost her career prospects and make up for the time she has been RP.

I want my husband to reconsider agreeing to be RP and use the money we would be spending to boost what what we give to maybe 600+ a month. I've worked out that it is going to nearly double our monthly expenses once you factor everything in like bigger mortgage, commutes, dinner money, uniform, clothes, football boots, martial arts equipment, leisure money, school trips extra utilities and Bill's, pocket money, presents. Unless we play the bad guys and make some serious cuts in long standing hobbies and commitments. My 11 year old stepson plays football at a high level which isn't cheap but something has done for five years and his mum has kept up all this time. The 9 year olds do martial arts which also costs money and time. When we sat down to crunch numbers and I put all these things down with the help of my sister who is a single mum so helped me break it down, husband says I'm being pessimistic and with child benefit it will balance out as he doesn't have to pay and she will pay two thirds of what he was paying but the numbers don't lie.

How can I make him see what we are getting into?

The advice we received said she should do that out of maintenance.

This was the advice from friends?

Get new friends.

He is paying the bare minimum that he is legally required to pay.

If he takes the same stance morally, then he's absolute loser.

Maintenance is meant to cover the vast majority of expenses bar presents and social activities like days out or friend's party presents.

Where did you get that idea?

A NRP dad would be told that choosing to work part time to pursue the luxury that is a post grad qualification meaning reduced child support and less money for their children is a disgrace, selfish, not putting their dependents first and meant they were a deadbeat. In fact they have on here, many many times.

This woman has qualifications and a job. She hasn’t been a SAHM for decades with little chance at getting a job and income of her own. She’s doing a post grad for herself, it means she’s choosing not to support her children as much as she could and all they’ll do in the short term is suffer for her choices.

And, if she is apparently struggling to meet their needs with that amount of maintenance and child benefit, I wonder how she’ll explain to them that when it’s her turn to support their lives as the NRP she’s going to contribute even less knowing what they’ll be missing out on.

OP, it sounds like a done deal so you have to decide your own boundaries and how much you’re willing for your life to change so he can have them 5 days a week. If you think there’s a good chance you’ll be lumbered with a disproportionate amount of time and financial cost and he won’t step up then you’ve got some serious discussions to have.

if your husband wants to have them living with him full time then he needs to be able to do so whilst balancing working enough to afford it, and being home enough to care for them without assuming you're going to do it for him. If he can't afford that, then between them they can't afford for her to drop to part time to study.

Agreed. Honestly I would make it crystal clear that I am not willing to move house nor will I be paying any more money towards bills etc that I currently did or being a free childminder.

Then he can work out the cost of childcare, extra bills etc and see if he can actually afford it.

He can’t just sign you up to being a childminder and spend your money for you!

The fact it as you jointly own your current house he can’t force you to sell it. Say no!

You will have to make the necessary sacrifices and make it work

Haha. No. My DH doesn’t get to unilaterally decide that I have to make sacrifices of my time or money.

Your dh and his ex sound like horrible people.

He needs a bigger house anyway.
He has been getting awY with insufficient maintenance and begrudged his kids clothes for too long.
She should be working more and now is not the time to be doing an MA.
Why isn't she paying the maintenance you paid her? Costs stay the same, she needs to give you £365 if thats what you gave her.
And I dont get her moving into a small place her kids aren't able to call their home.

Poor kids. They must feel very unwanted.

As for you OP I feel sorry for you. Its going to be hell with 3 kids in a 2 bed flat. Leave him to pick up all the extra parenting. Dont be a doormat. He owes his kids as he's been shirking his duties for too long.

If I were you I'd move out. This ill conceived plan has been put in place without your backing. Vote with your feet. At least if you make a stand now they will know they can't do it without you. Presumably you pick up the slack on childcare whilst she ups her houes, cuts down on maintenance and gets to breeze around doing an MA. DH wont be able to work without your help.

He will probably thank you to make a stand. 50 50 no paying maintenance is fair. And be adults about splitting costs.

And you need to budget for family costs. Cut back on activities. You all sound broke as fuck.

Those poor kids.

I don't understand how a mother can just decide to dump the kids on the father forcing him to move to a bigger place so she can move to a friend's house and study. It won't only affect you like the SM haters say, but also the kids themselves....The idea is that she sacrified herself for them, now she wants someone else to do it. I don't know, but when you decide to have children and be the RP, it's not just about money or carreer opportunities, but also love for your children. I would never want my children to be anywhere else but with me...

I think the unreasonable part here is that suddenly the mother decides to make a drastic move and you just have to adapt. Propose something half way.

Do they live far? If yes, it will affect their friendships and activities? That could be one argument.
Can the father stay with them while she studies at night? That's what my DP did when his ex decided to study, he would go every afternoon to meet SD (then 9) from the school bus and stay with her until her older brother came home. She didn't have to move houses. That would mean that the mother wouldn't move to a friend's house, but at least she'll get to study.

You can also clarify with your DP that he has to make sure that he'll be able to be there for them and not completely rely on you. My DP lives with me, but I'm the main caretaker of my son from a previous relationship, he only helps me to drive him to school in the mornings (5-10min total of his time). In exchange, I'm the one who mainly drives our toddler to and from daycare, so he doesn't lose really by helping me. Men have less trouble not to be involved with the woman's kids, but we as women think that it's our responsibility and many men and their exes do as well.

when you decide to have children and be the RP, it's not just about money or carreer opportunities, but also love for your children

When you decide to become a mother, you usually do it as part of a couple and you do it on the understanding of a shared future. Unfortunately, when relationships breakdown, you are on your own with an ex and new partner moaning about a minimum contribution when you’re expected to do it all and be glad you get a couple of days ‘off’ every two weeks. That being on your own means paying for everything including making sure you make pension provision for yourself. Part time work just won’t cut it and neither will shift work unless you have great family support. It means parents sometimes make decisions that in an ideal world, they wouldn’t have to. If the ex in this case sees the way forward with gaining an additional qualification that will make her working day more manageable, why not? Or are you suggesting a father, an equal parent, can’t cut it as PWC?

Or are you suggesting a father, an equal parent, can’t cut it as PWC?

It’s not that he can’t cut it, but that he doesn’t have room for the children in his 2 bed flat and can’t afford a bigger house.

He needs to be honest about that and tell his ex. I’d imagine she’d think differently about the situation once she knows that.

So going by your original logic.. kids cost about £60 a week max. Do you think you could stretch £30 for half a new pair of shoes and half of all their essentials?

He needs a bigger place anyway, they can’t continue to share if there’s no room for any stuff a long side puberty hitting.

Unfortunately you’re on the short straw of his latest “I know better” scheme” ex has probably seen a string of these over the years.

And yes her incomes lower so she pays less maintenance. That’s how it works for either parent, you can offer extra but that’s not required from her. And I can see why she’s not offered after he’s paying roughly half of what you could afford to.. which is apparently still not enough to keep them.

Serves him bloody right for being so tight-fisted in the first place. Surely you can see that their mother has been sucking up all this additional expense for years while he paid the minimum he could get away with and no more? So he makes a cynical fake offer to have them full-time in the hope of avoiding paying more money. And it's backfired. Slow clap. Tiny violin.

You have a choice - you can stay with him and try to make his children as welcome as possible, and put up with the fact that as a family you'll be skint and conditions will be cramped. You can try and separate out your own income and your own time/space for yourself because they're not your kids, but it will be toxic and unpleasant for everybody. Or you can bail out and leave him to it.

Poor kids, having you all squabble over who doesn't get to have them and who doesn't get to pay for their food and clothing.

Zen nudist it is a percentage of her salary - she works PT and therefore less than the father = less monies

Also the wife is going to stay part time and do a Masters so she can get a better job. No suggestion she is reducing her work, just altering where the DCS live.

The only idiot here is OPs partner who did not realise that the children cost quite a bit to house, clothe and feed. Mother is still going to have them 2+ nights per week and if it goes to three then even less monies due.

It is very ironic that the maintenance was fine for her but not enough for you

Zennudist she is having them 2 nights a week not eow which that and salary pays for the difference

The problem is it’s backfired he wanted he to go away and be happy with the amount. She has said no and given you the responsibility with taking into account she will have them twice as much as double the maintenance

Omg worst nightmare. The mother sounds awful. Any mother happy seeing her kids twice a week just isn't normal. I'd make it as uncomfortable as arse for him by saying you will separate finances and won't foot any extra that it will cost to have them, including paying for a bigger house, food and electricity bills. There seems to be a lot of women on Mumsnet with no kids living with men with multiple kids and helping them out financially. Seems like a raw deal to me

@stuffedpeppers - EX wife, not wife!
Op is this man's wife - show some respect!

Can you not see the irony? You thought she was asking for too much but now you're the RP youve found out just how expensive it is.

Karma!

I hope 2nd wives read this thread and take it in before before moaning about maintenance

He’s sounds like such a prince.

Maybe double-up on the contraception, OP.

She would have received tax credits too on her wage so extra 250 ish a week there op won't get

Financially it's a pain but he left her to physically bring up 2 yo twins and a 4 yo mostly solo. That must have been a nightmare and he/you begrudge her extra money. No wonder she was working PT. Which must have set her back considerably. Now there's the chance to improve her life.

Not your issue OP but I'm of the opinion that step parents don't have to be part of a family but then they should leave, don't stay and begrudge things. It's rotten for everyone concerned.

I posted a similar thread earlier this week about child maintenance, extras and custody. My Dh pays £160 p/w but also 100% covers all extra curriculars, school costs etc. EXW is a sahm so contributes nothing financially. She had the gall to ask for double as we have two incomes and she got shut down.

£365 p/m for three kids isn't a lot tbh I would suggest no extra cash but paying half of other costs such as uniform, trips etc. CSA is the bare minimum and if you suggesting upping the maintenance it means you can afford more so your initial argument about CM covering these costs is moot.

As far as her becoming the NRP but remaining part time so she can pursue her masters is pretty cheeky. She is is currently using childcare issues as a reason for not being full time and asking you to make up the shortfall. This is not necessarily unreasonable, but to then say she wouldn't pursue ft hours after handing over custody makes her sound like a hypocrite.

Your husband making these decisions without a discussion is not on. I would make it very clear that if this arrangement comes to fruition that you will not be responsible for any increased costs or chores that are incurred by have the kids full time. I've had my eyes opened about the expectations of step parents and frankly we are the villain no matter what you do. Look out for yourself and your best interests as your husband clearly doesn't see you as a team, making all these changes with out you.

OP, this must he a shock for you and to answer your question, I think you are realistic and your Dh is choosing to be deluded because he wants his children to live with him. He will not want to face the reality because he doesn't have an option and if he tells you the truth, that life will get much, much harder, he knows he will have an issue with you...and he needs you know than ever.

The ex might go full time but she will never be contributing a vast sum as she is a nurse so it will be down to you and your husband to increase earnings, at the same time as home life will get way busier. Tough situation especially as the children will hit teen years.

What the chances of your earnings increasing?

What you have to do now is decide your boundaries, in terms of time, finances and household workload or else you will be become default RP and feel resentment.

As a mother I actually think being the NRP is amazing. If DP and I split up I’m going to be the NRP. I’ll give him the house also till he decides to move or the DC have decided to move out then we sell and split the proceeds 50:50.

I’d happily do the EOW plus one weekday and half holidays whilst paying whatever the going rate of CMS is.

There’d be no worry about childcare arrangements, I’d be able to work and go out without worrying about childcare and I wouldn’t be forking out for the never ending expenses because I’d be paying my monthly CMS amount faithfully, what a fab NRP I’d be.

I do think if a lot of women chose to step back and be the NRP, all of a sudden it would magically be discovered that CMS doesn’t even begin to touch the sides of the costs of bringing up a child.

Also why is a mother deciding after seven years to be the NRP at the father of her children’s request a terrible thing? She’s not abandoning her dc, she’s going to see them two days a week plus holidays and she’s paying the required CMS amount. That’s practically sainthood material right there if the NRP is the dad!

This is either hypothetical or a reverse

And if it’s EOW plus 2 weeknights every fortnight the amount of quality time probably won’t decrease that much either seeing as she was always on a EOW schedule
The father asked because he thought she would say no or it would be easier. The mother clearly realises that in terms of time with her children it wouldn’t actually significantly affect it as weekdays are a lot of running around etc and she can work and complete her study. Because that is the point of this thread she isn’t someone who doesn’t work. EOW and the maintenance she had received probably did mean PT hours made sense. She wants to do the masters whilst still working and paying maintenance herself to get a better career. What is wrong with that