Is it time to admit defeat?

[wineisneedednow]

DSD is 10 years old. DH and I have different ways of parenting that her DM e.g she needs to eat her dinner to be able to get a treat; she needs to ask permission to play on her devices; she needs to help out (this extends only to making her bed and putting her own dishes in the dishwasher; on occasion we'll ask her to lay the table for dinner). She doesn't need to do any of this at DM's house and can do as she likes.

DSD has told us that she wants to know what we're going to be doing before she comes over as she only wants to come if we're doing something fun. She finds it boring here and doesn't like that there are more rules here.

I've known she feels like this for a while (not because she's said anything but because of little things she says). We have her EOW, one day in the week and half of school
holidays.

DH has told her that he won't be telling her beforehand as it's about spending time together rather than doing fun things and spending money on her.

I feel like he's in a losing battle. DM has said that at age 12 she wants DSD to be able to choose where she wants to spend her time.

Do we just carry on and accept that we'll lose contact over time if we don't put our hands in our pockets or arrange to be doing something awesome all the time? Or do we try and entice her here more?

WWYD?

Is there middle ground here? If I was 12, I’d want to have some fun at the weekends. She’s away from her friends so it’s not unreasonable for your dh to take her out somewhere. It doesn’t have to be too expensive. Cinema, cycling, bowling, park run, lunch. Christmas shopping for her mum. Can she bring a friend with her for a sleepover?

@Mintjulia - we do all of that and she has friends over for a play date. But sometimes (certainly on the one day in the week) we don't have something fun planned.

We don't just sit around the house with her.

For example, this morning, we went to some local markets where there was face painting, a bouncy castle and other fun stuff. She had a great time. We came home at lunchtime and have been playing (she has toys here) since but she'd rather go to her DM's as the fun has stopped.

Last week we went for a walk along the beach which she loved but were then going home for dinner and then she'd be dropped home. She said she'd only stay for dinner if we go out for dinner or she wants to go to her DM's.

Then I think I’d be a bit vague - “we’ll decide when you get here” etc. Your dsd may not mean what she says, she’s just pushing for more. Be good humoured, unfazed and always welcoming but not a pushover.

How long has this arrangement been in place? Is it new and she's struggling to adjust?

I have two DDs of 10 and 12 and they struggle to adjust between here and their dad's. It's difficult for them when rules are so different between houses. I'm the one with the rules, dad has none from what I can gather. There they game for hours on end and never pick up a book but they do go swimming. Here we bake cakes, bread and cookies, watch movies together and play. They are expected (with much encouragement) to keep their rooms reasonable, clear the table after dinner and load the dishwasher. I do breakfast and lunch. They also put their clean laundry away. They resent this as they don't have to do anything at dads but are starting to appreciate that everyone has to contribute to the house being kept nice as we are a family and we all do our bit. I'm a single mum so no one else to help whereas dad has his gf and it's her house. It's a bit Disney vs real life.

@DtPeabodysLoosePants, not a new arrangement at all. DSD has been trying to ascertain what we're going to do for a few years (memorably a school holidays a couple of years ago when DH put together a chart with what we were doing everyday to try and give her things to look forward to - empty days had things like bake, watch a movie of your choice - she tried to say she wanted to come for the days we were going to the zoo, ice skating, etc, but if we were visiting family or doing things in the house she didn't want to be here).

I feel she resents it if we ask her to do anything around the house. Even picking her clothes up off the bathroom floor is met with rolled eyes and a sigh and a conversation about how it's not fair as she doesn't have to do this at Mum's.

I think I'm just feeling a bit down about it all. And a little used? I know she's only 10 and that's not a fair thought but it's hard not to feel like that.

@Mintjulia, that's what actually brought the conversation up. We've been vague and she's complaining as she doesn't want to come if she doesn't know what we're doing! I think we'll just have to keep being vague and leave it to the universe?

I would tell her that you would decide the plan of the day when she is there and let her not come. Give it a few weeks and her mum will be sorting the problem herself.

Her mum needs the time she is away to catch up with house chores, herself and other commitments, so I doubt very much she would be supporting this nonsense for long.

I think many of us, divorced parents, try to make up for “disadvantages” our kid may be enduring that are not really there. Having seen so many children of divorced parents ruling their parents households and still be unsatisfied about it, I decided not to spoil my own son pandering to requests that would be unreasonable if his dad and I were still together. When DS comes with requests that are difficult to accommodate I always ask myself the question: if we were still together would I be accommodating this? The answer, more often than not, is “no”

Besides, do you all want her to grow up thinking that men we there to entertain her and dump when they are a bit boring or not providing expensive entertainment for her?

Do you think she doesn't feel in control of her own destiny and is trying to ascertain some? It comes across as I only want to do awesome things but maybe it's a bit more than that.

She's 10. I'd be ignoring her moaning. Life isn't all Disney days out. Let her be bored at yours. And don't keep facilitating her going home when she moans she's bored. She'll just have to suck it up. You're pandering to her.

Tbh I wouldn't be indulging this. I would be telling her that it's ok if she doesn't want to come and spend time with her dad but to think she can arrange to come and then change plans and demand to go home at the drop of a hat if they aren't exciting or expensive enough for her is rude and disrespectful of people's time.

It's too much power for a child. If she wants to come, she comes, and plans won't be changed unless she has a very good reason for wanting to go home early.

She’ll only stay for dinner if you go out to a restaurant 😯
You need to stop this entitlement now or imagine what she will be like as a teenager!
Call her bluff and say ok don’t come. I bet she won’t be going out all the time with her mum.

I have to say I agree with @GinisLife!

She's 10! At the end of the day, she'll appreciate boundaries and all you've done/doing for her, it may take a few years but she will.

My kids have rules at mine, but I know at their Dads he's anything for an easy life.

It sounds like you're both doing a fab job.

Just seeing this from my dc's perspective. When they are uncomfortable with their Dad they want an activity rather than awkwardness. They often don't feel relaxed with their dad.

How does your Dh get on with his ex? Would he be able to get guidance from the mum should the relationship deteriorate if you imposed boundaries.

I am 100% agree with IdiotInDisguise think how you would act if she lives with both parents?

In other words: do not let her know beforehand what you are planning to do. Let her decide that she will take the risk to loose fun time because she is staying in her mums house. Do your own stuff as you would like to do and If she is playing up and refusing to come then leave it like that. Couple of weeks like that and Her mum will send her over very soon. She wants to have time off.
If she is with you and she wants to go home earlier then answer is simple "no" because you have no plans to go anywhere before agreed handover. If she insist or throwing tantrums, let HER call her mum and then she can come and pick her up before agreed handover time time. Mum will put stop to that as well.
If DSD don't want to pick up her stuff. Pick them up and put in a bin liner and when its time to go to mums house give that bin liner with DSD to sort out at home. She will stop acting up.
They are only doing what you let them to do.

@wineisneedednow I know exactly how you feel! I also have a DSC around he same age and we definitely have more boundaries and rules at our house. However, over the last year or so I think she has really started to appreciate it as she is treated like a grown person and part of the family.

I think the problem you really need to address is allowing a 10yo to decide where she is staying. Discussions about this should be between her parents - it's too much pressure and responsibility for someone that young. She needs to see both parents as much as possible to bond with them both, not just for special days out - which of course a 10yo is going to choose!

The idea your DSC gets to choose where she stays when she is 12 is not her DMs choice alone, your DP should have a say in this too. Personally I still think that age is too young for her to make any sensible decisions as what 12yo old would choose responsibility over an easy life? What she wants is not necessarily what's best for her development.

Thanks for all the replies. It's really helping me to stay strong with her and just impose the boundaries as we have been and continue on.

The relationship with her DM is good. Whilst we have different parenting ways, she is a good person and does encourage DSD to spend time with us.....but not too much. She messaged today asking DH to have a conversation about how much time DSD will spend with us over the coming holidays and would like DSD to be in the conversation as she feels it's appropriate she has a say.

I agree with @youreallyarefantatsic, that it's too much pressure and responsibility for a 10-year old. I'm also concerned that she is going to say she'll come here for Boxing Day (it's not our Christmas with her), get her presents and then leave. She is normally with us for half of school holidays.

This may end up in mediation or Court if her DM backs her and I'm really hoping that it doesn't.

Op, I would encourage you to avoid court as at 10 or 11 (by the time it gets to court) your dsd wishes & feelings would be taken into account and it would just cause hostility and unnecessary upset for dsd.

I know this is tough to hear but in my DC's case they just don't feel as relaxed with their Dad, some of that is because Ex has too high expectations of them. They are really good children, thriving at school and very responsible but they want to relax at home. They do chores and I get push back at times but I don't think it becomes an issue.

I think nrp's have a tricky job though as limited time means they can't parent as the RP does. You seem to have the mums support and co parenting amicably is worth so much. Keep offering to see dsd as I think she will value that.

It doesn't sound like she has much alone time with her dad? It's all about family activities for all 3 if you.

I know it must be frustrating, but its challenging and confusing for a child to have different rules and experience different parenting styles on separation.

I know parents can be different under the same roof, but if you were the child, where would you rather be?

She doesn't understand that these rules are to make her independent, so to her...mum's place is relaxed and easy going.

I'm she doesn't spend every day at home with mum doing activities...but when you're away from your full time home, it probably feels like an outing where there should be some kind of adventure.

It's a tough one...

Never ever entice.

The number one priority for your DH is to be her parent and her role model and guide.

That doesn’t mean you can’t make it fun. But never tell her beforehand.

Because you know what? She will always want and need her Dad, more than she knows, if he’s a good Dad. If he’s decent he will carry on taking an interest in her school, her wellbeing. He will just be there, be interested. If she stops coming for a bit so what? Don’t let her have that power it’s actually damaging for her.

I’d also second plenty of one to one time with her Dad. You need to give them a lot of space and be more background. Speaking as a SM!

I have a feeling that people are trying to much do to "co-parenting" instead of "parallel parenting"
Parallel parenting is the same good as co-parenting,only you don't have to copy each other households, you will have your rules and another house has their rules. That absolutely OK.
Your children will learn sooner or later that in the world you will find endless different house rules. Its good to start learning that with trusted environment: your two parents have two different houses with different house rules. Its simple and stress free lesson.

please read articles like those:
beanstalkmums.com.au/complementary-co-parenting-and-why-i-love-it/

www.fixfamilycourts.com/coparenting-vs-parallel-parenting

Seems a bit unfair to start saying that the problem is not enough 1:1 time when the girl hasn't mentioned anything about that and all of her complaints have been purely materialistic.

This is not OPs fault for being on the scene, it's about the attitude of the girl. If OP was away for the weekend and dad asked if she wanted to come over and spend the weekend in with him (without any enticing day trips) I seriously doubt she would say yes. But it could be an interesting test.