Older step children disciplining toddler

[Anuta77]

Hello,
This is partially a vent and I was wondering if this is also a "normal" teenage behaviour: SC who rarely see our toddler (their choice to stay at their mother's living their lives and having DP visiting them there) think that they have to discipline him.
SD (12) comes EOW (that's about 3-4 days per month), her older brother (16), every 2 months or so.
An example with the older brother: the toddler (22 months) poored cereal on the floor. I dealt with it. SS wasn't even present in the room, but once he learnt that it happened 10 min later, I see him standing in front of the toddler loudly saying "NO!". I'm sure that toddler didn't even link the 2 events. I explain to him that it's not necessary to discipline him in addition to his parents, but he just walked away.
SD is obviously with us more often so I see her repeatedly saying with a commanding voice "No!" to the toddler many times throughout the day. Obviously, if I hear it, it's because I'm present and 1) either I don't think there's anything I need to be involved with and 2) if there's something, I can deal with it. I told SD several times that me and her father can discipline our toddler when necessary, it's not her job, but she continues. Herself, she doesn't like being disciplined by the older SS who likes being bossy and ignores him.
Yesterday, we were at a friend's house and I allowed the toddler to play with billiard balls, just putting them gently from one place to another. I was sitting right next to him. She sees it, runs to him and starts saying "No!". I even tell her that it's me who allowed it (as if it's not obvious that I'm sitting 5 cm from him) and she argues with me that he can break them (hard balls and carpet flooring!).
She also tried brushing his very curly dry hair after I told her (and she argued with me) that this kind of hair should not be brushed. She did it once behind my back, but yesterday, she started in front of me.
The other time, she started contradicting me when I wanted to remove my toddler who got too close to some Rottweiler that I've never seen before. This dog's mouth was big enough to swallow my son's head. SD wanted to caress him, it's her choice, but when I explain why I don't want my son next to an unknown big dog, she just walks away. This situation with dogs happened several times, my explanations don't matter.
When she sees me changing diapers, so always asks why? Did he poop or pee? She could ask it several times per day. I don't think it's curiosity, she's been seeing me changing diapers for almost 2 years. A variation would be: did you already wash him? I just don't know how to answer this and be sincerely nice, it's just annoying.
And there are many many things like that, that make it unpleasant for both of us I suppose. My toddler doesn't go to the daycare yet, he's with me 24/7, it feels very annoying to have another child who still has a lot to learn herself to dictate to me and to her little brother what to do.
I know several women with older daughters around SD's age who had babies, but none of them tells me that they contradict or discipline them. The mother is always respected. Is it because I'm a SM that my opinion about my own son doesn't matter?

A younger child doing this to a younger sibling is completely different to adult sized 12 and 16 year olds barking at a toddler and I wouldn’t be happy at all or think it’s normal.

I agree with this. MY dh has 2 much younger siblings and when I started going out with him I noticed that there would often be a pile-on if one of the smallies was doing something wrong (in fairness DH didn't). My observation was that a small child is less likely to pay attention to a chorus of voices saying "No" than one authoratative voice. When the older ones met their partners, a few of those partners also started joining in. To this day my MIL will occasionally say to me "they love you pallisers because you never tried to tell them what to do" and that is nearly 30 years later.

I think the step thing might be a bit of a red herring, OP. Any child doing this where there is a gap should be told not to. At the same time there is no doubt that your step daughter has been displaced as the youngest child and there is a new dynamic in the family. She may even miss her connection with you. She may be trying to deal with it as best she can but not very well.

Ideally her dh would do this but if he is not stepping up could you take your sd out for a coffee and just chat to her. Tell her if more than one person is telling a toddler what to do at the same time they get very confused. When she babysits or is in charge eventually, then she will be the one deciding on stuff but in the meantime it is better for the toddler to only hear one voice at a time. Tell her how much you love that your toddler has older sibling and how much he loves it too. But that it is really important that he sees her as a sibling and not a kind of parent. You'd love him some day to be complaining to her about his mum and dad or being conspiratorial about something he should have got up to with her. So while you appreciate the help she is trying to give, you really hope she will be the sibling you are thrilled he has.

Or something like that. I suspect this girl is insecure and doesn't know what her role is - and may have seen a different dynamic with her mother's nephews and nieces. The 16 year old I'd simply say "Ive got this covered don't confuse him".

I have 3 kids, 5 years between oldest and youngest.
Oldest has always tried to discipline youngest. (and occasionally the middle one too)
If I have been firm, he says I am too firm, and if I ahve been more lenient, he says I haven't told her off. i can't win.

The middle one does it to the youngets too. To the extent that we made a family joke of it - when one of them does it, one of the rest of us do a siren sound and go 'third parent alert, third parent alert'

I do think it is quite normal, if they were all living together, you would probably get both more of it and less. More in terms of more smaller things, and less in terms of less extremem as the would have a better balance.

I suggest you take a good humoured approach, gently laugh and say - hey he doesn't need another parent! Or - you know it is more fun being a sister than a parent. And then carry on as usual. Keep it low key, but pick them up on it.
And also, chat to them as th eolder siblings, give them a role, so they feel part of the family dynamic.

My 11yr old does this with her 7yr old sister. She’s done it for years and it drives me bat shit.

Tell your stepchildren that you will do the disciplining of your child thank you very much. Biological siblings do it gently and with kindness, stepchildren don't have that bond and are just trying to boss a younger child they're jealous of.

Biological siblings do it gently and with kindness, stepchildren don't have that bond and are just trying to boss a younger child they're jealous of.

No one told my kids that. Or my siblings when I was younger.

Biological siblings do it gently and with kindness, stepchildren don't have that bond and are just trying to boss a younger child they're jealous of.

First of all these children ARE biological siblings. And secondly biological siblings can be mean fuckers too you know.

My 11y DS is constantly saying no to his 2y brother when he sees him doing things he shouldn’t - even if I say it is fine he is just trying his best to help out - 2y will get something random from fridge eg sauce bottle to sit and play with older sibling will say no then pull it off him upsetting him - I know he shouldn’t have it incase of mess - but I pick my battles so say it’s fine let him have it - sounds like your step kids are trying to be helpful - but I wouldn’t put my child in front of a dog I didn’t know. Their relationship will change as child grows and sounds like they will be great role models

Biological siblings do it gently and with kindness, stepchildren don't have that bond and are just trying to boss a younger child they're jealous of.

ha ha ha ha ha

yest again my kids forgot to read the book

I do think it is quite normal, if they were all living together, you would probably get both more of it and less.

Her 11 year old is also there and doesn’t do it.

Their relationship will change as child grows and sounds like they will be great role models

I see no evidence for this from OPs posts.

My 11 year old tried to tell me what to do, but I reminded him who's the mother and it stopped. SD, for some reason, doesn't stop and she has never been bossy.
I know that this attitude doesn't always change. My older cousin was 14 when I remember her disciplining me (9 years difference), she did it when i was in my 20s too, which put a distance between us, because I just don't like being bossed around. Her mother is 12 years older than mine and she always treated my mother as the ignorant young sister and my mom is 70 now.
We were all sitting on a trampoline now and she just snatched the toddler our of my arms as soon as he stopped breastfeeding, I didn't even find time to blink...I think I do have to have a talk with her...

I think this behaviour is normal for older siblings. I've actually just spent the afternoon in the garden listening to my neighbours DD who does this with her younger brother (5 year age gap). She can often be heard saying "No, Tom" (not real name) in a very authoritative manner. I find it quite irritating and roll my eyes, but try to remember that she's just mimicing her mother and it seems as though she wants to be more grown up/responsible and is looking for approval.

Cross posted...

Having just read your latest post, it does sound as though she is over-stepping and going too far with 'playing at parenting'... I would put some boundaries in place, but do so carefully. She's a child acting like an adult, not an adult, after all...

OP, it depends on what you want to achieve. From your attitude, I expect you will drive a wedge between your son and his half-siblings. If you would be happy forging a chasm between them, then go ahead with all this over dramatic stuff.

I am sure these half-siblings are not be malicious and their motives are good at heart. If you would prefer tgem not being big sister / brother, then fine. The joy of siblings is that they irritate the hell out of you. Makes for fond memories to mull over in adulthood.

If however they are doing anything unsafe, dangerous or abusive, by all means you are right to be up in arms about the situation.

I don't think i will drive a wedge between them, as they see the toddler as part of their father, not me.
The oldest SS who's 19 now doesn't behave this way, he's always respectful of me and never bosses the toddler around. He's been like that at 15 too, caring, but gentle. He tells me that he misses the toddler, so I'm pretty sure he'll be in his life if even something happens to us (as we are older parents).
Neither does my 11 year old, who doesn't have experience with younger kids.
The 16 year old SS has always been bossy, even intimidating, with my own son and my SD. But because he only comes rarely, I have time to "recover". And strangely, he's generally much softer with the toddler than SD, I guess because the toddler used to be scared of him (tall guy with big hair and loud voice) and maybe because he grew up a bit.

It's the SD who's been behaving in a way that makes me uncomfortable and something has to change, because it's driving a wedge between me and her. And she's only entering teenage hood.

It's up to you OP. You might be reading too much into things and your views might be influenced by her not being your biological daughter.

Blended families can be complicated but it is as complicated as the people involved wants it to be.

Your toddler will be fine and his resilience will develop because of his trickier older siblings. I may be wrong but it doesn't sound like your toddler is being traumatised by his sister. He just has a bossy sister.

I'm not sure I believe a 19 year old is that distressed by not seeing their toddler half sibling. I'm sure he misses him but I'm not sure it is to the extent you're portraying.

If SD has been parented differently she might feel as though your son is getting away with things that would've (or even would) get her told off.
She's then telling him to level the field.

I'd just keep an eye on it if I were you. No need to assert yourself as a parent, she knows you are his mum.

I feel as though you're battling with a 12 year old about who is more in control (insecurity maybe) which is ridiculous.

As for the PP who said she's jealous of the OPs son. Why? Why would she be jealous of a toddler?
Don't think that OP, I can assure you she's not.

I never said that the 19 year old is distressed by not seeing the toddler, he told me himself that he misses him (I didn't ask), but of course, it doesn't prevent him from living his life and only coming over rarely.

About SD being parented differently, my impression is that her parents are very lax. My DP sees her once a week and rarely says anything to her, it took me several months of saying that she was rude with me for him to actually talk to her, I wasn't there and I don't know when he did it, but the times he ever tells her something, it's very soft, which is not who he is. He even hits our toddler's hand several times when he touched his computer and he always imagines that the toddler manipulates and needs to "suffer the consequences". Our toddler doesn't lack discipline. SD, in my opinion, does.

If my reaction is just insecurity (but seems that other people would be annoyed as well, what I described are just some example of something happening EVERY TIME she's with us), it's not ridiculous. Feelings are not always controlled all that easily and just because someone would tell me that I'm ridiculous, peace and harmony will not be established in our house.

They are jealous of the baby.
Don't leave the baby with them.
Especially the idoit that thinks it's OK to take a baby near a strange dog.
Do yourself a favour and do not leave your child with them.

Sounds normal to me. Older siblings always tell off little ones, as long as they don't go as far as meting out punishments, I wouldn't worry.

I learned something from your op - that curly hair should not be brushed! I never knew that. My son, now adult, has always had curls and always brushed his hair. No harm done.

Your husband is an idoit hitting a toddlers hand.
The sort of 'man' that would probably crap himself in front of another man.
Hitting kids ... Low.

He even hits our toddler's hand several times when he touched his computer

Yeah...your obvious dislike for your stepdaughter should be the least of your concerns. If you're worried about bullying or abuse in your home, ^ this is where you need to direct your attention.

Your husband sounds like a prick. Who the hell hits a toddlers hand? I was coming here to say, it sounds normal, but actually if that's the kind of discipline your step kids are going to copy, you need to be careful.

You need to be more concerned your husband thinks it's okay to hit a baby. Put a stop to that shit, then work on putting a stop to your step kids saying 'no' all the time.

But that's your impression. How long have you been in her life?
I'm talking about when she was younger.
But now you're saying that DP is harsh on your son (I hope you say something when he hits him!!) Is your SD is picking up on that?

Of course it's ridiculous to be involved in a power struggle with a 12 year old. You are your sons parent, SD (no matter how much she 'disciplines' him) knows that.
She isn't trying to overstep your role. She isn't trying to take over as a parent.

Many people have also said that it could be her trying to find out where she fits in with the dynamic of this family. Maybe, instead of trying to work out how to gain back control, help her establish her place.
She might start to then settle down.

@BoredToday Jealous of what?