Differences in income/family wealth

[Letterkid]

DP and I both have 1 child each, both same age. Been together several years, my DS lives with us and we have DSS EOW.

Everything is very smooth, everyone gets on well, however DSS mum is very wealthy. DP and I earn roughly the same but nothing compared to DSS's family (DPs ex).

Wealth difference was never an issue when the children were toddlers but now I feel like it's not fair on DS to have this person in his life rubbing his nose in what he doesn't have. DSS goes to private school, has been to disneyland US 5 times, and goes on multiple luxury holidays a year to Dubai etc he does extra circular activities every day, he lives in a large house and his mountain of presents at xmas was shocking.

I understand that it's a life lesson you can't have everything, but for DS to have to share his room with DSS who talks about all these holidays and toys as he wants to share with his Dad, just seems mean to DS?

Does anyone else have this issue? I don't want to resent DSS for being privileged but it definitely makes me feel bad not being able to let DS have the same as his step brother

@TropicalStorm123 unfortunately what you may view as DH joining you last minute will potentially not be viewed in the same way by his DC. And quite ignorant to say it's none of the ex's business when she is the one who has to pick up the pieces and deal with the ramifications of DC feeling like she was excluded. Trust me this is a long and heartbreaking road and one I sincerely hope you never have to deal with.
Your right it's not black and white but obviously your DSC feelings were not considered at all in your decision.

@purpleboy of course DSC’s feeling were considered but as DSC had already been abroad with their mum and DH had taken them to Disney Paris (without me or our 2 children as they were too young), we were also having a family holiday in the summer, so DH felt that he wasn’t being unreasonable to join us for a few days.

The situation was explained to the kids and they were fine with it, it’s only his ex who wasn’t.
Her issue is around the money, she thinks he’s paid thousands of £’s taking his wife and new kids abroad when actually he only spent about £200 on any EasyJet flight.

@TropicalStorm123 it's really hard to define the extent of the DSC being fine with it, my daughter didn't make a fuss when told she wasn't invited on their family holiday, but when she got home burst into tears and honestly to this day has not got over the feel of rejection, (there are other similar incidents that led to this)our 2 situations are very different and I do understand where your coming from, it's just they didn't realise the affect this has on DC, I hope it isn't the same for you, my DC was too scared to tell her dad how she really felt.

Tropical storm- I sadly know this is the true story. He told me and she posted it all over facebook about her generous new man!!

Purpleboy are on the same page - last year EX took my DCS sibling ( half) to see his brother who lives in a fabulous country - which the DCS love going to.

He told them whilst facetiming with their younger sibling. I listened to my DCS continue a phone call for 15 minutes, putting on a brave face and the minute it ended they howled with pain.
His argument was they were on holiday with me ( a last minute bargain booked after I knew he was taking DC3 away and not them)

Their 5 yr old sibling has been on 10 holidays with their father in his lifetime. In the same period - his other 2 children have been on............
zero. there is no possible way you can say they accept this is reasonable because I take them on holiday - so he does not have to.

They do not get it.

Interesting posts and perspectives.

I have a question. To those mothers providing the other side of how their DC have reacted on learning they aren’t being taken on holiday. How is contact arranged?

I.e are you quite flexible? So if your EXH said can I take the DC’s away for 10 days on x date, would you be flexible?
Or is contact quite clearly court ordered with negotiations back and forth on dates/ times etc?
Or is it somewhere in between?

Ah yes, toosassy, one parent makes excuses not to include a child on a family holiday making all sorts of excuses, usually in the name of ‘fair’ so it must be the ex’s fault for not being flexible? Or more precisely, for not agreeing to the dates you want so again, theirfault, regardless of notice given, other arrangements during proposed dates etc etc.

My ex promises our children the full works every summer...forgets to mention I texted him in September asking his plans for next year which he failed to respond to. And then again before I book in December asking if he’s happy with the dates I am intending to take which, again, he ignores. So I book and text again with confirmation that I have booked (always leaving at least a week between text and booking and telling him if I haven’t heard by X date, I will book) and then, as the holiday starts he every year blames me because I booked first without warning and took the exact same dates he wanted and the other 4 weeks are fully booked (utter bollox). Every time. They have been acustomed to the disappointment, and it is a running joke as to what he’ll promise this time but ultimately, it makes them sad he just can’t a) be bothered and b) at least be honest and say he can’t afford it/doesn’t want to.

Toosassy - i could not be more flexible - i am almost horizontal in trying to facilitate my DCs having a relationship with their father and sibling.

We have no contact arrangements because he and she would not stick to anything. I work 7 weekends per year and I can tell you when they are for the next 5 years. EX has those dates on the basis I ask that their contact weekends be some of them and I agree to move as long as they give me enough notice, ie a month. Best was 0730 on the Saturday that he could not have them - they had gone to Wales to see her friend and did not want to take two cars.
In 4 yrs EX managed 5 weekends that co incided!!!

I tell him when I am planning holiday - he has had 2019 since November 2017!!!
Seeing his DCs is done on a " I might be able to see them this weekend " but invariably he would fail to turn up because 5 DCS in a car is not possible and they wanted to do something as a family. i never even tell them he is coming because they have been disappointed so many times.
I have spent monies on activities / days out and then cancelled on the day, night before because he decides he will actually have them.

One summer he was going to take ours, hers and joint to Florida, chose his dates - so i booked myself a week away. 4 days before they were due to go - he said they were not going due to various shite reasons . They went - my DCS were with me, I cancelled my spa week and found cheap and cheerful week in the sun for all of us and booked them into child care for a week of the summer hols. Cost a fortune - think £240 child care week for 2, spa holiday £530, hol in the sun for 3 - £800ish.

I read on this forum about how taking the step kids means it will cost too much and anyway, they get holidays with their mother and excluding them is OK. That the "new" family deserve some time to be their family without the DSCs- because invariably they are a pain in some way.

It is not alright, I hear my DCS tell their DF to have a good holiday and they smile and laugh with their sibling on facetime while they are on holiday, and then i deal with the howls of pain, as a little bit of their self worth and being part of that family dies. ( and I do mean howl - it is a cry of such pain and hurt I hate it)
They fake it because they do not want to hurt their Dad - shame he and the OW do not give a shit about them. Each time it happens they withdraw a little more from their family and people on here want to know why they disrespect the new family, their home etc.

In my eyes it is all or none - my DCS love our holidays but they want a holiday with their Dad, they want to do Dad things. Every Xmas as we would plan the year ahead, they say "maybe we will go on holiday with Dad this year" - the looks and the voices were desolate, they knew the answer.

Roll on and this year EX has left the OW and they have had 5 days away with Dad and sibling. I am unable to describe the excitement in the days before ( was holding my breath and praying ) when he actually turned up with sib and the car of camping gear - I was close to crying. They returned with smiles that were so big and so full of "their Dad" - it was so good to see.

i get people want their own family and not have to deal with the memories that their partner had a sex life and children before hand but do not underestimate the damage you inflict on kids who have no choice and just want their parents to love them and include them.
i get their are difficult EXs who make things difficult but too many people on this forum justify step kid exclusion with no comprehension of the damage is does.

I don’t think all children have to be included on every single holiday by each parent every time.

I think it’s better if there is a mix, some all kids, some kids on one side, some just parents. Because unless all kids live in one house all the time, their lives are divided between parents. I have a DP who refuses to holiday with me and our child because his older kids (18+) would get jealous. So poor DS has never had a holiday with both his parents.

I get that it has to be fair though, never taking step kids away is wrong.

Children will often put a brave face on when their hurt deep down.

They don't want to show the parent they see EOW how upset they are for fear of rejection... and of upsetting that parent.

It's the RP who gets it all...and that's usually the mother.

A slightly similar situation is a girl/woman whose parents divorced. Her DM remarried a very wealthy man. Her DF also remarried and had more DC.

Her DF has said he's not leaving her or her Dsis anything in his will as their stepdad is loaded and will leave for them. They've had luxury holidays...skying...Carribean..Disney etc and grew up in a mansion... went to private school... the lot.

I can't tell you how much this hurts her. It's not the money...it's the feeling of not being recognised as his child. It's like being rejected.

There's almost always much more to any story so it's hard to know what is fine and what isn't.

Her issue is around the money, she thinks he’s paid thousands of £’s taking his wife and new kids abroad when actually he only spent about £200 on any EasyJet flight

This strangely reminded me of what one of my colleague was telling us about last week, but don't think it's you as ages don't match. Her ex has always quite crap, seeing everything from his perspective only, feeling aggrieved he has to pay a penny and always crying he can't afford anything. He had never taken their kids anywhere, not even days out because he couldn't afford them... because of her.

Then last year, 12 months after he got with his new partner he announced he wanted to take the kids to Disney Paris. She was very surprised as out of the blue but really happy for the kids. They went three days and supposedly was moaning all the time at cost of things and how he couldn't repair the boiler because of the cost of the weekend. Still it was nice for the kids to get some free time with him.

Then he told his kids (older) that he couldn't have them NY this year. When asked, he said he'd been invited by some of his friends at a boy weekend. The kids we t to see him last weekend and it turned out he was at Disney Florida with his partner and her child. He didn't say anything, it's the girl who spit it out. He tried to say that he only decided to go because the boys cancelled the weekend.

Of course it was all lied, it had been planned for 12 months and he only took his kids to Disney Paris for a few days to release his guilt. The kids are disgusted not as much for him not taking them on the very special holidays but his lies and deception and making them feel they are second best. One of the kids has now said he doesnt want to go any longer and colleague is expecting him to blame her for manipulating the child when actually it doesn't suit her at at all but she won't force him.

So it really depends on the circumstances. On the face of it, of course its OK for a father to go on holidays without his first kids exceptionally if he takes them away, but it very much depends on proportionality and openness.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, it's normal to want what others have. It doesn't mean your step child is having a better life, I'm sure there are parts of your son's life that your step son wishes he had. Use it as an opportunity to be thankful for what you have. Like others have said if you are ok he will be ok. If the boys enjoy each other's company find something like camping that you can do that they will love. I can imagine it must be hard worrying about it all, but try to find the positive side to it all.

I didn’t mean to ask the question to imply anything. I was legitimately curious so I’m sorry if it came across any other way.

I’m the same with my exH. Complete flexibility. We arrange the dates away and take our DC away (separately) so DC’s get quality time away with each parent (I think that’s so important actually). I’m very lucky that he not remotely flaky (touchwood) and has honoured all the commitments he makes with our DC.

My DP has the polar opposite and every hour has to be fought over, including holiday contact. So he and I have been on holiday with my DC (paid for entirely by me) and he was invited (it was only self catering in the uk on the coast) so he came. His DC weren’t invited as it was too far away.

We have also holidayed near their home so that they could join us and 50% of it was cancelled as they were ‘unwell’.

It makes me sad really as I completely agree with you (I do think it would make my DP’s DC sad to not be with us) but based on what you’re saying, I should basically only holiday with my DC and I and exclude my DP. Because I won’t restrict all of our holidays to locations/ times that his DC will do. Yes the odd long weekend etc can be accommodating but not every summer break.

So in my situation, what’s the right answer? I mean I holiday with my Dc alone once a year anyway, should this just be standard?

And before anyone says it, no I cannot say to my DP’s DC that mummy won’t let you come, it introduces more conflict for them and it’s not my place to say anything like that or get involved to that extent.

It’s a no win situation.

My eldest - pre teen, gets why and the fact that he did camping with them within months of splitting from the OW confirmed his belief.

And I quote:- "basically Mum, Dad did not have the balls to stand up to that ***ing bitch and he hurt us rather than have an argument with her, pathetic he needs to grow a pair!"

Before anyone says it we have had the discussion re disrespecting their siblings mother, regardless of what they think and they understand that. The response was from my youngest 8yrs old was - "Why Mum - she never respected us?"

Do not underestimate they are hurt alot by these decisions.

Thank fully i will not be around for the discussion when he dies, because he has already told me he will leave most to "his" DC because I will look after the other two.

I hear what you’re saying stuffed and given you are completely flexible, I agree. I think your DC’s father let them down and their relationship will never be the same. It’s very sad.

But what about SM’s like myself, who have partners with EW’s who create immense drama around contact continually? Should my DP and I never holiday with my DC simply because we can’t take his DC?

I mean my DC will continue to get amazing experiences and holidays with me. It’s my DP who will miss out. Is that really fair on him? When he has a EW determined to fight contact arrangements at every opportunity?

@TooSassy do you have proper contact arrangements in place, if not then I think you need to get that sorted ASAP that way everyone knows where they stand and EW can't change her mind about when DSC can see you. How old is DSC?

If I'm honest your DP sounds like he doesn't have much of a backbone to stand up to EW. When controlling women are allowed all the control they will just keep pushing for more!! If that's even the full situation; It's such a great excuse EW won't let me see the kids when in fact I believe you mentioned above you didn't invite DSC on your holiday as they live too far away? You can't have it both ways but not inviting them and then saying it's the mother who makes things difficult? She is probably protecting them from the pain they are being caused by your DP

I’m not prepared to go into detail on here.

It’s a very simplistic view to say it’s as simple as get a court order and then everyone knows where they stand. We have them. They have been breached. And no judge has yet thrown the book at the EW over the breaches.

She says they’re ill? Well then they were ill.
They didn’t want to come? Well then she was following the emotional needs of the children. There are plenty of cases on this board when holidays etc have been arranged and the children are not made available for handover. I’m just trying to present the other view, that for as many cases as there are NRP’s not sticking to commitments, there are RP’s who do all possible to thwart arrangements.

Contact has been breached and enforcements applied. Nothing has changed. Do I want this drama around my holidays with my dC? No. I don’t. My ex and I are perfectly amicable.

So I come back to ask a question, which no one has answered. Given dealings with a high conflict Ew, courts who desperately are trying to settle conflict and don’t want to throw the book at an otherwise good parent. What should I do regarding holidays with my DP?

I don’t want opinions on whether you think my DP needs to grow a backbone. No one can have followed every legal path open to them. He is doing everything possible.

Answer the question. Should my DP never come on holiday with me and my Dc?

@toosassy. Yes he should.

In ops case this child isnt her partners. So other posters may go on about how this stepchild doesnt live with his Dad so he is missing out but so is ops child as they also dont live with their Dad.
If I were in ops situation I would do what I could she obviously has no hope of being able to "compete" nor should she,
But if the child wants a bike why not get him a second hand one and get dss to bring his bike over so they can go out together on their bikes?
You can get plenty of cheap breaks online. Why not stay near a themepark for a cheap break. I know thats something any kid would love.

TooSassy - i normally respect a lot of what you say but seriously there are as many NRPs who have to deal with a difficult EX not allowing access as RPs trying to get NRPS to man/woman up.
Utter utter bollocks - simply on the basis of how many NRPs do not have contact,their choice and do not pay maintenance.

Your DP needs to sit down and have the conversation with his DCs about holidays and do they want to come. Accept they still might be hurt but make it clear that he is offering them holidays and not ignoring them.

They know when they are being lied to and at an early age, mine knew every time - my eldest used to call it the toilet talk - Mum he is hiding in the toilet to talk to us - always when he was away with her and her kids OW.

Sometimes it can not be helped but listening to the absolute BS that is written on this forum to justify excluding DSCs is unbelievebale. None of my friends have their parents pay for holidays ( we discussed this) on here it is very common, too expensive, we can only afford to go away in term time, if we go in the holidays and take them we can not afford it - well then you can not afford to take "the family" away simple as, they are badly behaved, I deserve a holiday without them, why can me and my kids enjoy something with out them, my DCS father is absent and they ahve two parents doing stuff it is not fair.

Be bloody honest - the lies that people make up to exclude DCs in so many things are truly pathetic and if you had not noticed that is what gets my dander up- the RP deals with the fall out not the NRP and the SM. There will be fall out if you tell them but at least you can man up and be honest with your kids for once.

You’re projecting a lot about your situation into my post.

I am being honest. I would never exclude his DC’s but equally I wont compromise the holidays I have the complete freedom to take with my DC. If I said to my EXH I can do xyz with my Dc but that means you won’t see them for 10 days to a fortnight is that ok? He would tell me to go for it, knowing that yes the DC will miss him but they will love it.

My DP does not have that situation with his Ew. Please wake up to the fact that the system for some NRP’s is poor. And that there are RP’s who want the NRP involvement to be next to minimal.

I really don’t care if you think it is rubbish. It’s fact. Fact that I have witnessed and if you spend any time with experts like Nick and Karen Woodhall your eyes will be opened to both how widespread a problem this is and just how unequipped the current system is to tackle it.

Re convos with his DC? That’s for my DP to figure out and I will not interfere. How many posts are there on here about SM’s interfering and overstepping the mark regarding their partners parenting.

His ex. His DC. His choice entirely on what conversations he deems appropriate or not. He knows his DC far better than I do. Not my place to be in his ear stating what he should / shouldn’t say. That’s what we have very good professionals guiding him on. And all are unanimous on not introducing more conflict to the DC at this stage.

I’ll listen to people who have years of knowledge/ specialist training and know the situation far better.

Oh and I’ll add. So many posts on here are so uber helpful, I absorb all of it. We won’t always agree but that’s ok too. I guess we are all just trying to find our way as best we can.

@stuffedpeppers - dp & I always took holidays either separately with our individual dcs or alone together. Then a few years ago I had a holiday booked for me & my 3 dcs. My eldest who was in uni then got a summer job with immediate start so couldn't come. I then offered the place to dp as none of my sisters could come. Dp took the place & explained the situation in full to his dcs who were fine with it. What then ensued was a shitstorm of abuse from his ex who accused him of abandoning his dc & using 'her' money to take me & my kids away 'on a posh holiday'. NOTHING could have been further from the truth (dp paid to change the name on the airline ticket & no more). Like a fool he tried to explain the situation to her but she just would not listen & made bad a situation that had been fine, & I then had to endure his eldest interrogating me about where I get my money!!! The absolute feckin cheek & I told him is was none of his business.
We have since gone away twice with all kids & EVERY time she has accused dp of funding me & my kids. Even if he was (which he's not) it's none of her business - I'm his partner of 5 years - & on each holiday I have had his kids watch us like hawks to see who settles the bills!
There is no doubt that ex's like yours inflict a massive amount of hurt on their dcs & your son hit the nail on the head, & it's women like that who give all sms a bad name! But, the flip side is that sometimes parents will holiday (or do other stuff) with other family members without them, NOT because they are excluded but because of circumstances, & kids need to understand this.
My 13 & 16 year olds will not go on a family holiday with their dad this year. They will be going on a great holiday with me this summer & their dad told them him, his dw & their two preschoolers will go to a child friendly resort without them just to rest. My two aren't thrilled but they totally get it because they know that they would be bored stupid & that that's just the phase of life their dad is in at the moment & they've asked him to go on a hiking trip for a weekend instead. Of course it's not ideal but that's life & if I went down the road of my dp's ex & started telling my kids their dad didn't love them & was choosing his other two kids over them I too would be creating issues where there are none.
I think there is a massive difference between parents who leave the first dc behind (both physically & emotionally) & parents who just cannot do it all & then get damned for having any bit of a life that doesn't include their dc.
With regards to the op - @Letterkid - I know it must be hard on your ds but what people have posted re your dp & dss having time together to discuss dss's life is a great suggestion. Your dss is perfectly entitled to that life with his dm but again as others have posted, strive to create a different dynamic & different holidays in your home. Your ds needs to cope with others having more buy your dss could also benefit from a different perspective on things. An activity holiday would be great for this & would be super for you all as a unit.

"Rubbing his nose in it" - that's not really fair. You can't blame someone for just living their life.

I think the problem here is people’s agendas.

Where Two exes are on the same page and their priorities remain their DC, then it seems to go just fine IME.
Where one exes agenda is to move on with their life and prioritise family number 2, relegating family number one, then yes. I can appreciate the absolute heartbreak that causes the DC and subsequently the RP. It must be awful.
But where one exes agenda is simply to not support the DC’s relationship with the NRP, things like this become a minefield. My DP and I take regular advice from 3 professionals. They are unanimous in their advice on all my DP can do is continue to take as much time as he gets with his DC, ensure he builds as secure an attachment with them and to categorically not put them under any additional conflict.
Which btw when you do what the RP has done in magdas case, it is called splitting and is incredibly harmful, psychologically to the DC. And cannot be resolved with the NRP ‘setting then straight’. It’s not that simple or straightforward.

My DP is years away from being able to take his Dc away on holiday with him for 10 days to a fortnight. I’m not.

Thems the breaks. But all I’m hearing from this is to never let DP come with me as the NRP gets to use this as another weapon to alienate the DC, if that of course is the agenda. Some people. As Magda says, like to create issues where there are none.

The OP is a good example of that. What is it she thinks she can change about the quality of life he DSC has? And why is it even anywhere close the DSC’s fault?

use it as a chance to educate your son that some people have more than others, it's life.
The sooner they learn this the better, it stops them from growing up discontented with the world because "it isn't fair"
Oh, and don't forget that "God bless the child, whose got his own"

Wow thats a massive gap in income for your dh and his exwife that she can send her child to private schools etc and he can’t afford a child’s bike! Was that the same py gap when they were married? I just can’t imagine such a in a married couples earnin potential. The SAHM’s i know all had good career before marriage that they could return to.

We must be very lucky as i can pick up a child’s bike for £35 reconditioned in my town. Have you had a look for one like that?

Have you and your dh, and your ds’s dad looked at what you can do to raise your incomes to better provide for your ds?