DSD too intimate with dad - how to manage?

[xartaetos]

Hi, I’m new here, just realized there’s a step-parenting forum, although I’ve been reading a lot of pregnancy related posts on mumsnet I general. My SO has 2 SC, DSD just turned 11, and DSS is 18. I’m 35 weeks pregnant with our daughter, which will be my first kid. I get along really well with my SO’s kids, care about them a lot and they are both happy and excited about the new arrival. We have the kids 50% of the time so every other week.

DSD has always been close to her dad, but lately I feel it’s too intimate and touchy especially for her age. She never showed obvious jealousy signs towards me, but has had phases of getting between us, needing to be close to dad, baby talking etc. There was one particular period when we moved in together to a new house that we bought where she was taking it a bit too far: she was climbing on him and basically striding him when he was on the sofa, wanting to sit on his lap all the time etc. She got over it eventually.

Recently she started again but it’s 2 years later, and I’m worried that it will get worse when the baby arrives. Now she is constantly stroking dad’s arms and chest, kissing him all over, playing with his hair all the time. It honestly looks like more like the contact I would expect between a couple than father-daughter. Her brother is uncomfortable with that too, and my SO occasionally tells her to cut it out, but more in a ‘let me be’ sense than explaining that it’s not appropriate.

I get that she’s worried about no longer being daddy’s little princess, and I see other behavioral signs of that, but he spends time with her, we involve her in baby stuff (looking at toys, preparing the nursery, etc), she even participated in the discussion for our name choice. So how do we manage that? On the one hand how can we reassure her more and open up a conversation but also cut out the wifey behaviors? Or is this kind of intimacy normal and I should just suck it up?

If the behaviour is newish and you both find it odd, it is likely that it stems from emotions your dsd is experiencing and rather than trying to stop the behaviour it would probably be better to talk to her about the cause of the emotions. She is 11, not 2, and should be encouraged to name the emotions.

Experiencing jealousy and envy is perfectly normal but maybe as a kid she needs help to manage those emotions. It's not gross behaviour bit she probably knows it's inappropriate. Your DH needs to talk to her.

I think you need to agree a strategy, e.g. Dad doesn't lie on the sofa so she can't lie on him, if she gets too close he gets up without making a thing of it. Distraction is the key - move on to something else - suggest going to the shops together for something, or ask daughter to make him a cup of team, or look up the TV guide. Disengage kindly. Make sure that there are still lots of hugs at the right time.

I’ve seen this on here a few times and experienced it with my DSD when she was about 8, it drove me crazy at the time and my DH didn’t really know how to react as he noticed it was different. Looking back it was at a time of lots of change for her at her mums (which we didn’t know about) and we were moving house so it was all about insecurity.
I would just try to ignore it as much as you can; she won’t see it as inappropriate in the way that you are. I wouldn’t actually address it with her as inappropriate as you don’t want her to feel embarrassed or ashamed; I’d suggest her dad just consistently says to her “sit next to me, not on me” or “leave my hair alone and hold my hand” etc so it’s directing her to behaviour that makes her feel loved and safe.
With the baby again some distraction might help eg. “Come cuddle the baby” or similar.
Its normal for her to feel insecure that her position is going to be taken and jealous that the baby lives with her dad

She's laying a claim on him in a very inappropriate way

Projecting much? I was expecting to read about a much older daughter flirting with her father, not a recently turned 11 year old hugging/kissing him. My dn is 11 and a very young one too, if I sa w her tickling/kissing her father all over (his face? arms?) it would be completely normal, nothing untoward at all.
It's interesting in that there are quite a lot of threads here about the father/daughter being 'too intimate* and it's often very mundane, normal stuff that touchy/geeky families do as normal. There are never the same concerns about sons being too close or intimate, which does ma k e me feel that there is an element of jealousy, even if it isn't conscious.

There are never the same concerns about sons being too close or intimate, which does ma k e me feel that there is an element of jealousy, even if it isn't conscious.

Lol..I challange you to find a boy who will be kissing his father all over, stroking his chest or playing with his hair..seriously..come to think of it I don't see boys doing it to their mothers either...TBH even a girl doing it to a mother or a father is not a common..

I have a women in my family who sleeps with her now 12year old son..I think its totally inappropriate too and she is making him into his substitute husband- as funnily enough she is divorced.

From my observation broken homes encourage parents and children to develop this unhealthy dynamic where a child is a substitute partner. Than when a new partner comes along this wierdness starts where daughters think they should be touching dads all over as his partners do it..Men secretly and unconsciously enjoy the attention(otherwise they would stop it) as it makes them feel wanted and needed....its messed up

She's petrified she'll lose her dad to the new baby. You and he need to tell her together that it doesn't work like that.

^its as simple as that.

& also some outings with just dad maybe she can pick where they go. So they can have a chat.

She's a child who doesn't know better and it's a confusing time for her.

Yes it's inappropriate, but it sounds like laziness on his part. Agree that she won't really understand what's going on and she's trying to maintain intimacy with her Dad. It's harder work for your DP to talk to her about her life and engage in meaningful shared activities with her, than to lie in the sofa and tolerate the incestuous sexualisation. He needs to step up and start doing stuff with her, to take a meaningful interest in her life, so she's not the one 'pursuing' a relationship with him. Poor girl. It will be horrible for her to reflect on this as she becomes aware of her sexuality.

I don’t think the solution is to push her away or tell her it’s wrong, it will just make her feel more insecure.

Absolutely

So he needs to gently disentangle himself and she can then sit beside him whilst they read a book or look at a website. And have a normal dad/daughter hug

It's not too difficult to think of other ways that he can have 121 time with her without the sexualisation being involved

astnightidreamtofpotatoes - I agree, looking at my two kids, boy and girl, and enjoying the touchy-feely hugs and kisses and fully aware they will grow into teenagers too soon and the hugs will stop. But I'm digressing - there was a remark there in the thread, a remark by the OP and it's quite telling:
"I can’t see how it’s healthy for a young girl to act like a mini wife. "
OP - if you managed to have a good relationship with your DSD so far don't let it change. She may play up or be jealous but she's still a child, you're a grownup and not immune so don't expect too much from a little girl.

Yes it's very inappropriate. She needs some boundary lessons . The bubble theory is a good one 'the space around you is your bubble, the space around me is my bubble, we don't go into each others bubble unless we are invited.
my dsd 8 has always been overally affectionate with everybody , including school friends. School have done this bubble work with her after her being too touchy feely with other pupils and them complaining. .
We have all been told to encourage her to maintain boundaries with physical contact.

Hectic I would agree that your dsd's behaviour with her classmates is inappropriate, they are not in any way related to her or connected outside of school and that behaviour could be indicative of issues but really still can't see how the OP's case is alarming. The mini wife and 'laying a claim' comments are almost sexualizing her behaviour towards her father which I find really sad. If he doesn't like it then fine to put some bubble boundaries, but to compare a child's physical behaviour towards her father and that of her classmates is strange to me.

lastnightidreamtofpotatoes - blunt but true

Can you not just say to her that you've noticed that she is touching Daddy a lot more than usual. Is it because she's worried about being pushed out by the new baby? How does she feel etc?

I have a relationship where I really thrash this kind of thing out with my eldest DD. She was worried that more love for DP meant less love for DC. I think that's a common reaction.

Lastnight ,,the connection is that it started with her being over touchy feely with her family , nobody said anything , it was just her (even though if made her brother and her dad feel uncomfortable) . If she had been taught boundaries from an early age it may not have progressed to her being 8 and having no idea of personal space.

@lastnightidreamtofpotatoes it was me who made that comment which you feel is 'projecting' & I can assure you that it's not.
I've three kids & my dd is 12 & at about the age of 10 she started to modify her affection as did my boys - it's what kids naturally do when they become more aware of their own bodies. My dd is still very affectionate but in an appropriate way for her emerging sexuality & there is no way she would treat her dad like that - in fact she'd think it "gross".
OP's dsd being affectionate with her dad is not a problem it's the manner in which she's displaying this affection that is the problem.
And I'm sorry but the way the OP has described it it does sound very sexualised - almost like it's something she's seen couples do. Dsd is probably not even aware of what she's doing but that doesn't make it appropriate & her dad needs to carefully find ways of modifying her affection to make it more appropriate.
We're a very touchy feely family but it is age & relationship appropriate.

Magda I'm asking a genuine question here; in what way is her behaviour sexual? If she had been stroking her dad in the crotch area o e dry humping his leg I would understand, but she is touching his head/chest area. S he sounds like a girl who is in need of physical time with her father (and not in that way obviously!).

Rarely does a mum ever have concerns on here that her dd is 'too intimate' with her father. There would be a stream of YABU if a mum posted the OP and many would claim that their dd regularly does xyz and it is normal. I t is interesting that there are always threads regarding how close a dsd is to her father (with the OP) usually thinking it is inappropriate.

My cousin’s daughter (12 years old) did this with her dad when she got unexpectedly pregnant at the age of 47. It’s unusual behaviour yes but it is NORMAL, especially if she has been used to being the youngest.

The worst thing you can do is call it out. Your DP’s strategy is right, ignore the behaviour, involve her in new baby planning, ensure she always gets her own time with her dad (away from you and the baby; difficult but you must) and eventually the phase will pass.

@lastnightidreamtofpotatoes - unless I'm muddled the OP said that her dsd is striding her dad & stroking his chest & hair which I would interpret as sexual.
Now I'm not saying her dsd is BEING sexual - what would concern me is that she has seen this behaviour displayed (possibly on tv?) between couples & now thinks it's a way to interact with her dad & get his attention.
I know we often see things through an adult lens but I do think the fact her 18 yr old brother finds it uncomfortable is very telling.
To me the physicality sounds very adult in it's execution & personally that would alarm me.

I’m going to be blunt here and say that this behaviour could very well be sexual. It’s very common for children on the cusp of sexual maturity to test their flirting skills (whether deliberately or unconsciously) with people they feel comfortable with. It’s not uncommon and it’s not that they’re even trying to act sexual as such, but more that they’re emulating adult behaviours that they think will get them the attention they crave.
I worked for many years with troubled youths and these behaviours would crop up a lot particularly with pre-pubescent girls. The boys tend to act “over masculine” and be aggressive, typical alpha male types.
It is more a cry for attention and asserting themselves in their pack.

To answer a previous poster who asked why mothers never seem to think their DDs are behaving sexually with their DFs at time is because they have no need to assert their role as the main female in those situations, their DM has that role covered and there’s so competition for attention from the head male. It’s basic biological psychology.

These behaviours are inappropriate - the chest stroking, striding etc. But they are because she’s feeling insecure.

DF needs to gently rebuff these actions and then cuddle her like the child she is. She doesn’t need to be pushed away but it can be rebuffed kindly, for example when she tries to stride him he could scoop her legs round and then cradle her instead.

It sounds like she’d really benefit from a bit more alone time with him and possible you too. She’s currently seeing you (and new baby) as a threat to her security.

Think about it... until recently she was daddy’s no.1 girl (as even when her parents were together she would not have seen her own mum as a threat to her daddy’s love for her) but now he also has you.

My youngest SD went through a phase of wanting her daddy to tell her she was the prettiest girl he knew... he wouldn’t of course because he also had an older DD who was listening in and also me and my DD. So he’d say something reassuring like “you’re the most 8 year old in the world to me”. She needed constant reassurance and even once asked if she was prettier than me. DP said “You are a beautiful little girl and she’s a beautiful woman, it’s different”.

Awwww.......of course dads should tell their dds that they are the prettiest girl in the world. But the stroking and touching is weird.
If I sat on my dad's lap at 40 I'd flatten him!

All these grown ass women ‘oh I still sit on my dad’s lap.’ For real?!

Jesus Christ, my dad would probably knock me the fuck out if I tried sitting on his lap now.

Iswallowtoothpaste I completely agree.... its weird as!