I'm posting again....

[trickle4]

But yet again under a different username for fear of being outed...

Just checking opinions on wether dh is right here.

So tonight dsd (13) should be coming for the full weekend. She comes every full weekend, then the following just a Sunday, then the full weekend again...etc etc...

This morning she informed dh that her mum has booked them tickets for something tomorrow. Dh not impressed. It's his time, his weekend but said it was fine.

So dsd is still coming tonight. Her mum will pick her up from our house tomorrow but is refusing to drop her back off with us after the event. She's said dh will have to come and colllect her. The drive to the place they are going too will take him 45 minutes each way. He's said no. Ex will have to drop her back off. To which ex replied, 'I'll just take her home then. You can't even be arsed, shit dad'

Now the thing is, ex moved away from our town 2 years ago. And has not helped in anyway when it comes to collecting dsd and dropping her off. Originally she said she would but she hasn't. She moved a 50 min drive away from us.

Now dh just does the picking up and dropping off - even every other Sunday when he spends most of the day just driving to pick her up then taking her back again after a few hours without moaning.

But now it's getting to a stage where both the ex and dsd are taking the piss abit. Dsd now decides when she wants to come and when she doesn't. Sometimes she prefers to be with her friends at that's absolutely fine. However we do explain to her that if she does this, we won't always be available to come and collect her when she wants. We have other dcs to consider and we make family plans.

E.g she will ring dh and say 'I'm sleeping at a friends tonight, can you pick me up at 11am tomorrow instead?' This is usually on the Friday she is supposed to come. 9/10 we can do this for her though dh feels his mum should play a part in dropping her off when this happens. We don't want her to feel left out but sometimes the other dcs have parties or arrangements. We only have 1 car so do what we can. It's dsds choice not to stick to the routine and dh 100% realises she's at an age when she wants a social life. It's fine.

However it's not fine when her mother makes plans on dhs weekend. She hadn't even come consulted dh to see if we had any plans.

So is dh right about not going to collect her from the venue they are going too? Tbf we can't at that time anyway, we are already going to see his family which dsd would of been coming too. But it's just expected of him to be able go collect her.

It's just all getting abit ridiculous. How do you deal with it when they get to teenagers? Wouldn't be so bad if she lived closer or had a mother who was willing to help out just a little bit. But it's getting like dh is just on stand by on a weekend to take her home or pick her up.

Dsd also usually goes in a mood when she's hear on a Sunday as her friends are asking her out to play and she's an hour away with us. There are times when we can't just take her home because she wants to go. We make plans around the arranged times (home time for her is 5.30, she's home for 6:.30 and dh is home for 7.30). Sometimes she will want to go home at 1pm for example but I will need the car or the other dcs have needs and we can't do it.

Do we just let her come and go as she pleases? I honestly don't see the point of dh collecting her tonight. She's already asked to be picked up later so she can stay out with her friends. That's fine but she's being collected at 11am tomorrow. She won't get up until 10am.

Sorry I'm just getting fed up with it. Last week dh was called an embarrassment of a father because he hadn't given dsd any tea. She didn't want any and was just going to have a snack when she got home. She was offered tea but said no.

It's just something every week from the ex and I feel like they both just walk all over dh. But if dh tries to stand up for himself, that makes him a shitty dad.

Or more succinctly, you are fully committed to your side of the arrangement and you expect them to so the same. BUT you'll accept if mother/DSD agree to do something else and see DSD on next contact.

Well that's changed. Dsd has come to us in an extremely bad mood. Her and dh have had a good talk, she's had a good cry.....and now he's picking her up tomorrow after the event. Knew this would happen. He obviously sees it very different to me and I understand that. It's his daughter in floods of tears at the end of the day. But you watch, she will want to go home anyway this weekend at some point. The minute the tears come he just totally backs down. He was back to been made to feel like a shit dad with the tears instead of the verbal abuse. That's how I look at it anyway. I'm just not going to get involved but I won't lie, it's these situations I find it very hard to be with dsd. I love her very much but cannot stand the way she manipulates her dad.

As the mumsnet saying goes...you don't have a dsd problem, you have a dh problem.

He needs to set the boundaries clearly and stick to them.

And I say that as someone who only saw her dad at weekends from the age of 1, and probably drove every single one of my step mothers (there were several!) to distraction with our changes of plans.

@Liara have to say I agree. Dsd has said she's not getting on with her mum at the min which secretly I think dh is quite smug about.

Thing is, I remember being 13. I remember my younger sister being 13. I was hard work and so was she. I'm convinced dsds periods will be starting anytime now due to her moods. Dh has no idea about this stuff. She will be giving her mum a hard time at home. It's her age. Her mum will know this also.

But dh is now feeling sorry for dsd which is only going to put us a step back even further. Pretty much give in. It's no wonder they both walk all over him to be honest.

I don’t think your DP can do anything but act with integrity on his part. I think he should make it calmly clear to both his EW and his daughter that he is hurt that the weekend with him is being shortened. He could tell his daughter that he would like to keep to the current arrangement as much as possible, because he loves her, and he wants to just be there for her, in her life. But that he’s not a taxi and that’s why he won’t pick her up afterwards.

That’s all he can do and keep doing.

Just read your last posts. Oh dear. Sounds like my DP.

His daughters are pretty crap with him. He has provided for them and parented them more than their mother and yet they hardly bother with him now they are young adults. Yet he still taxis them every day to College/work. I saw this coming years ago when he started doing what his daughters demanded, guided by their mum who still makes her own demands. They moan about their mum to him too, just silly manipulation all round.

What @Bananasinpyjamas11 & @Lampine are saying makes perfect sense to me.
Can you and dh get out together & really thrash this out & come up with a united front on how to proceed?
I also see my dp being run ragged & tbh it's the ONLY thing we fight about, & yes he is being thoroughly manipulated by exw & kids, & also being passive aggressively punished for moving on with his life.

I think as children get older things change, I also think as children get older they like to be at home, have lay ins and see their friends, more so in the summer where random sleep overs happen. Your Dsd wants to come over, then wants to go home, your DH accommodates this as he loves her, she probably doesn't understand the impact of this ( but will greatly appreciate this when she is older and looks back. What I would do is if the Mum makes plans which impact you say no. Just sorry no we have plans this end. You will only have to do this a few times. Also I think you should do EOW, not so you see her less but so she has a weekend at home with friends.

What is that event? Maybe it is something she's more keen on than her mum and it's her who's insisted on going. That would explain why mum has said she wouldn't drop, why dsd was in tears and why dh agreed to pick her up.

The public transport is definitely the way forward though. He needs to make a deal with her, he makes an effort, gives her flexibility etc... but she gives public transport a go. At 13 with no learning difficulties, she should be prepared to face it. If she's encouraged to avoid things because she's scared, then it will be one normal thing in life after another that she will avoid, because she's being encouraged to do so.

Oh OP...my DH was like that too!!!! But it got out of control...so out of control that when SD came to live with us ft-be prepared!!!- he totally blamed her DM as in his view it was all the womens fault they were arguing..he had SD on pedestal as innocent child and couldn't see she has become quite a manipulative teenager. Anyway when she came to live with us ft he was still trying to be a Disney dad until we found drugs in SDs room and uncovered some nasty and stuipid behaviour..even he couldn't ignore that and as by that time her DM wasn't in the picture much he suddenly couldn't blame her anymore and realized that his girl wasn't a child anymore and was more than capable of manipulation, game playing and selfishness.

Anyway..that was a start...consequences and boundaries were put in place and SD rebelled. We are fine now but DHs and SDs relationship is much more appropriate now..She has also become more pleasent to be around..But she is 18 in couple of months..

It's depressing to look back and know that if only DH started parenting her sooner we could have avoided so much drama. On the other hand better late then never..But it something really big to lose his blinkers..

It's a musical they are going too.

I have to say, it's the first time I've looked at dsd and thought 'you're just like your mother'

I had to just go upstairs as it was frustrating me so I didn't hear the actually conversation they had - it should be private anyway - but from what dh said, she's having a hard time with her mum and he feels sorry for her. He then asked if I could go have a chat with her and give her a cuddle. Let her paint my nails. I wasn't in the mood for that so just told him I wasn't feeling great and went to bed. I'm sorry but I'm not falling for the sympathy thing. The paid of them (dsd and ex) already have dh wrapped round their little finger and it's not happening with me.

As mentioned earlier, 13 is a hard age. I remember being 13 and being just the most moody, unreasonable and unhelpful person. My mum was at my wits end with me - and rightly so lol.

It's just the same thing. Dh asks dsd to do very small chores, she never does them, dh gets cross and dsd sulks. That's the general pattern. She's doing the same thing at home but obviously if it's happening at home then dh is on dsds side. He can't see that it's exactly the same situation that her mum has to put up with and for a lot longer time than we do.

All I've suggested is he needs to have a good civil chat with the ex. Find out exactly what's going on at home rather than just taking dsds word for it.

He will still be collecting dsd this afternoon which will no doubt take him a couple of hours - no longer going to see his family.

If I reverse this, I can see it from dhs side. If it were my daughter. But I wouldn't act like his ex does so I very much doubt we would be in that situation

My dd is 12 (going on 16!) & it became very apparent to me (& her older brothers) after my split with her dad that she (unconsciously at the time as she was only small) was a different kid while at her dads - much more manipulative & attention seeking. As per many experiences here my ex tended to let her get away with & support it so I began to tackle it from my end - not because I wanted to interfere in their relationship but because I didn't want her turning into a manipulative teen/adult.
I'm happy to say that's now she's a great kid, has a great relationship with her sm & dad & manipulates no one.
It happens so easily - the wish to manipulate as it's the nature of the (human) beast - the urge to be top dog.
I can see now that my dp's guys are older (18, 15 & 12) he's being totally manipulated by them, having been manipulated by his exw for years & tbh the 18 year old is the worst!
The key here is going to be trying to get your dh to see this without seeming like you're dissing his dd. I'm still trying to work out how to tackle this with dp. My dp is so used to the manipulation that he often just can't see what's going on.

@Magda72 got it in one, thank you! Whenever I speak to dh, it sounds like I'm putting dsd down. I have to think very carefully before I speak so I don't put my foot in it. I don't want to sound like I don't care or don't like dsd because of course I do. I love and care for her very much.

It's got to the point where dsd has said she even wants to come and live with us. When dh told me this my reaction was to laugh and say 'don't be ridiculous, that can't happen'. Dh obviously sees it different, he would love it if she came to live with us.

I'm not saying she can't live with us. I'm saying that she simply cannot be serious. All this over a few rows with her mum, she's willing to change schools, leave all her friends, her newly decorated bedroom at home (she shares with my dd when she's here) - there's no way she wants to live with us. She's bored when she's here and can't wait to get home.

But dh is like 'oh I'm so worried about her, she would be best off with us, we can make her happy'. He's constantly cuddling her, asking if she's ok etc and he's actually seriously thinking she should live here.

All because at home, she had an argument with her mum as she didn't wash the dishes when she was asked too.....and last week he had the exact same argument with her as she refused to load the dishwasher.

Sorry for the rant, this latest bit has all come out this morning.

I'm sorry but I'm not falling for the sympathy thing
Maybe that's not fair though. As you've said, you didn't hear the conversation, maybe she is indeed having a hard time with her mum, maybe her issues are genuine, at least for someone her age. Your OH has decided to be sympathetic, you need to respect that. I think that's when you really see the difference between your own child and step-children. If it was your child crying their eyes out, even for a reason that everyone else felt meaningless, it wouldn't be meaningless to you because you would feel your child's sadness.

Dh asks dsd to do very small chores, she never does them, dh gets cross and dsd sulks. That's the general pattern.
But that's how it is with teenagers. My DS had cereals last night after I went to bed so woke up to yet, once again, a bowl left to wash. I told him nicely but firmly 10 ominutes ago that I was getting tired of telling him every week to wash is bowl. He grunted -quietly-, left the room.... and left the dirty knife he'd just used to make his toast. I'm about to tell him that he won't get a ride from me to his football training unless he washes the knife. He will do it and not address me a word on the way! Yep, life with teenagers!!

I think you need to take a step back and let him parent her as he sees fit. If he wants to travel for hours, it is his choice.

@swingofthings you are missing my point.

Firstly, I've said in previous posts, I know it's teenagers! This is what I've been trying to say to dh. If dsd did live with us and was asked to do something small and she didn't want to, she would be straight on the phone to her mum saying she wants to come home. She did it last week over the dishwasher. I know it's teenagers, I remember being this age very well. It's dh who doesn't see it that way. Or infact, does when she's here but doesn't when she's at home. So when he's hearing how dsd was shouted at for not washing up, he thinks it's outrageous behaviour from his ex when he did the exact same thing last week! It doesn't matter where dsd lives in this respect, she is old enough to do chores in each house and refuses to do them and goes crying to the other parent when she gets told off for her attitude. This is where I can see this as a step parent and not the actual parent. However I honestly think I'd see it as this if I were her parent. I do with my own dc's and what happens at their dads house. Dd is only 6 and is asked to just leave her empty dishes at the sink at his house, she comes home and says 'daddy asked me to do this but I was too tired' and my reply is always 'daddy has rules in his house and if that's your job you need to do it'

Secondly, I have said I see it in his eyes. If you read my posts, I've said I can see it from his point when his daughter is in floods of tears in front of him. That's his daughter and of course he's going to comfort her when she's upset. I did the right thing by letting them have a private conversation. And dh will only tell me what was said later anyway which he has done this morning.

I appreciate your post but you are saying things I've already said previously.

He will be going to collect dsd later but now we have other upset dcs because they were looking forward to playing with their cousins today and now they aren't.

It is up to dh how he parents his dd but there are times it becomes priority over the others - today being one of them.

Op my dd2 is a bit older than your dsd and let me tell you, I'm her mother and she thinks I am a taxi service.
Seriously the ferrying about she expects me to do is ridiculous.
It appears that non of her friends parents are ever available to taxi them around so I am always the default parent who is asked to take us to x, then pick us up etc .
It drives me crazy.
I had a very stern word with her last week and told her to stopping plans which involve me driving her to places.

My advice would be to do as Lampine says.

Teenagers are selfish.

She needs to learn that you cannot have it all. Either she goes to the theatre or she sees her dad.
Her mother is being unreasonable but at least she is involved in your dsd life.

Try and see that as a positive, lots of parents walk away and do not give a flying f* about their dc.

The issue is that it is affecting you since you've said you had to go away because of the frustration you felt. That's the point I'm coming from. It's bad enough when it's your own children. What I'm saying is that it is better to remove yourself from it and let your DH be frustrated with that role and deal with it as he sees fit.

You implied that she was making it all up. Maybe she is, maybe she really is upset, but it's for your OH to decide which is which and deal with it. You can just look and be glad you have a few more years before you have to face it too, unless you are lucky and avoid it (I did with dd but certainly not with ds!).

Just read your update.
Your dh is wrong to agree with his dd over being told off.
She is playing her parents off against each other and it is not constructive at all.

Unless her mother is beating her full on he needs to tell dsd to shut up and do as she is told.

No wonder she thinks she can decide when and what she is doing.

If I were you I would make plans to use the car and plans with your other dc.
Your dsd needs to understand that the winner told doesn't revolve around her.

She needs to learn that you cannot have it all. Either she goes to the theatre or she sees her dad
Or more, she can do both but she needs to make an effort herself, ie. accept that it's time to look into public transport.

@swingofthings where have I implied she's making it all up exactly? I've just read through what I've written as I haven't ment to imply that and cannot see where I have? She's making nothing up, she's been in trouble with her mum this week on top of her mum changing plans for this weekend. That's basically what's happened.

@Belindabauer she is well and truly playing her mum and dad. You are right there. Through no fault of her own either really. She knows her mum doesn't like her dad and her dad doesn't like her mum. So she's in the middle and knows she can say whatever about either parent and the other will stick up for her. I've suggested that dh and ex have a civil chat about what's going on. About how dsd is at home and how she is here. They are the parents and need to stop dragging dsd in it

So she's in the middle and knows she can say whatever about either parent and the other will stick up for her.
That's what I meant by 'making it all up', ie. pretending to be very upset to get her ways from either of them.

Can your DH and ex have a civil chat though?

@swingofthings they have too really. They are both parents to dsd and a lot of this can be avoided with communication.

Like in my first post when dh was called an embarrassment of a father because dsd had no tea. The communication was all through dsd. If it was direct between the two, dh could of said 'we asked dd if she wanted tea but she said no, she wanted a snack when she got home'. But it escalated and when they did eventually text it had gone too far. It was ridiculous and dh is just as bad sometimes.

Though as far as this weekend goes, the ex should of contacted dh regarding the musical, not expected dsd to do it

Exactly the same happens with my eldest DSD. She plays her parents off against each other and I often have to be the voice of reason to DP.
ALL kids try to play parents off against each at some point or other even if it’s a case of asking mum - she says no so they ask dad who says yes. However in families that are still together the parents usually work as a team and communicate what’s gone on so they can easily identify the tactical behaviour. In split families this doesn’t always happen because the parents aren’t coparenting or communicating enough. Add in animosity to the mixture and it’s easy to see why split parents blame each other rather than addressing any bad behaviour of their kids. It’s easier to lay blame with the ex you don’t like than admit flaws in the child you love unconditionally.
My DP often blames his ex for behaviours in the children or for arguments she’s had with the eldest yet he only has them for 2 out of every 14 nights. Their mum is the one on the receiving end of DSD’s hormonal moods 28 days a month. The woman deserves a medal 😂

The problem here is the lack of communication between your DH and his ex. You’re totally correct that they need to discuss DSD civilly

I agree, the ex should definitely have told him. It's difficult at 13 though as it's in that in between stage. I didn't have any communication with ex by the time my eldest was 13, but she was good at communicating (I sometimes had to remind her) and it suited everyone better as ex and I clashed otherwise. Well it suited me!