How can a father decide to see his sons less.

[Daddydoodoo]

Advice welcome...
My wife currently has an arrangement in place for my step sons to see their dad every weekend. One week sat through sun and one week Sun only. He has decided after 5 years of this he now only wants to see them every fortnight. He has told the boys it's due to his work forcing him to now work weekends.
My wife has taken it really badly as she is worried the boys won't cope seeing their dad once every 14 days.
Can he just change this arrangement when he pleases? It was arranged informally without requiring legal agreement.
How do we explain to his sons he has chosen to see them less.

I understand your perspective, OP.
My advice:
Try to find out - gently and in an age appropriate way - what the children think about his proposal if they can't have the statusquot
If it is one Friday evening a fortnight, I think you should re-consider your view if the children want to try it.

When parents live apart more than 60 miles or so its not uncommon for children to go 12-13 nights without seeing one parent except on Facetime/skype etc. Not ideal, but he children seem to manage. So don't worry - the children might not be as upset as you think when they try it out.
Just say that DF has proposed a variation. You might point out that you and DM aren't sure how it will go. It might feel like an unpleasant change because it will be a longer time between visits, or it might feel like a pleasant change because it opens up the opportunity to enjoy a steady full weekend at home with DM and you. Some weekends will feel different from others.
You could offer to trial it, and will review how it is going after a couple of months.

Just do EOW pickup on a Friday at 7 they can have a late night you all can adjust to this and enjoy it. Make plans for the weekends with or without DC and stop making a mountain out of a molehill FFS

Don’t you and your dw want a full weekend with the boys? So you only have them for one day a fortnight at the moment over the weekend

My children are teens and see their Dad every other weekend. (EOW) Their friends with divorced parents seem to do the same unless they live nearby. It's very unusual for NRP to see their kids every weekend (unless they are not at school, babies etc) Having a whole weekend with the kids mean that you can do stuff like travel overnight to see extended family.

I think that you need to tell the boys matter of factly that this is the new pattern. They will see it as not a big deal if they get that vibe from you.

The adults (your wife and you) need to adjust your expectations on what quality time with the boys mean. It won't be weekly any more but like everyone else with EOW, you can count down the weeks to school holidays etc Your wife will get a bonus day when it's just her and the boys. Children usually enjoy having just their parent to hang out with sometimes.

Is there a tech solution that can help in between contact? I mean Skype, FaceTime sort of thing?

Their Dad isn't seeing them less, he just wants to change the pattern of contact which isn't unreasonable.

Employers don't have to be flexible either. They have to consider it but are well within their rights to say no.

I don't understand the problem with Friday. You can still go swimming and watch s movie before 7pm.

You sound really inflexible.

I always think - how would I feel if the shoe was on the other foot? How would you feel if you only saw your kids every 2 weeks? How would you feel if another man (not the kids dad) was telling you when you can see your own children?

You need to back off. This is for your wife and her EH to agree. It’s not about ‘your’ quality time with the boys (who see you everyday). It’s about the boys right to see their own dad. And don’t involve the kids in adult manners - you’re putting pressure on them.

Be fair and ‘let’ (which sounds controlling) the dad see his own kids. He doesn’t have to explain to you his work situation. Things change, be flexible.

I suspect this hasn't gone the way OP expected or wanted it too. He kept encouraging more opinions because he thought he'd win us round.

What's happened is the more he's said the more we've gone nope your the one that needs to change.

Not sure he'll be back

I agree NaughtToThreeSadOnions, I hope they will wake up and realise children aren't property to be given out as they please and stop being so petty.

My daughters saw they’re dad 2-4 times a YEAR. And then once he didn’t want to see them for 3 years
He never brought them anything and avoided paying child support

They are 18 and 22 now

Tbh you except it as you have no choice unless she takes him to court a judge can make an order to make him have his children

It costs about £210

Get your wife to take him to mediation then file with courts to get him to have his children
He probably has a new partner or hobbie and his children are an inconviwnce

Tbh I’d not bother he isn’t and his children will grow up knowing this BUT he is having them twice a months that much more than some parents bother

Wow I just read the replies
Gosh this site has some nasty people on it giving they’re opinions and being spiteful no wonder the Op stopped replying

Of course this man has rights he has these children a lot more than the birth father does - he’s doing his job.
The father gave just 5 days notice how is that fair.
The father stated he has his 2 year old so can’t have his sons then !!!!! WTH of course he ca.

OP I’m sorry these people seem to take they’re anger out on you well done for stepping up and being the kind of man that is a good dad that you’d bother to even post for support
I do find many people in here do reply nasty things not sure why thwy probably have indelt anger towards they’re ex’s.

I’d get your wife to get a court order to have set days and times the thing everyone’s forgetting here these people made these boys they are BOTH 50-50 responsible for they’re upbringing why do people always think well the dad has to work why should he have HIS children ? If he now has to work he has to sort childcare ! Why should the mum always have to rearrange everything to make the fathers life easy.

They had an agreement
He’s trying to change it as he says it’s work
Well he should provide childcare then it’s his set days and times he agreed.

How do you all know that the OP and the mum don’t work these days etc ?

Regarding the boys not going until 7pm that is pointless it’s bedtime why should the father get it so easy ? He should pick them straight up from work and I don’t know of any civil service workers working Sundays.

The father has a new life he’s trying to push HIS soms out his life why do you all think a man shoulnt have joint responsibility why do you all think a man only has to see his children 1-2 days a week ?

Madness

meme70 your entire post is all about the rights of the mum and stepdad. Contrary to what you think no court will make a parent see their children (apart from very rare cases where the children have particular needs) because generally it's not in the best interest for kids to be forced to spend time with a reluctant parent. Hence all the absent fathers you hear about. Court orders are all about ensuring that the resident parent makes the children available for contact so I think you'd probably find in this case they'd rule in the dad's favour (not that it would get as far as court if the OP tried to pursue it). It's not down to the RP to decide that contact from 7pm on a Friday isn't good enough. If the dad was trying to push his DC out he could simply just stop seeing them without all this to-ing and fro-ing. Another point is that if employers have to be as flexible as OP suggests then why isn't he asking his employer for him not to work on Sundays so they can all have their family day together then?

Tempus you are 100% wrong

My husband was taken to court as his ex demanded he pay and provide all child care costs and had his daughter set days
The judge said if they do not agree to equal days and times she would set a court order to make sure the child spends time with both parents.

Why should the father not have 50% responsibility ? Why as he’s a man ?
Rubbish
They decided to have children both of them why is it expected the Mum does all the childcare has the children as and when the father decides he can’t?
The absent fathers I have one weren’t taken to court and a court order made.

Why do you think a father shouldn’t have his children as much as the mother ? You both had these children why does one parent think the other should have the child more and pay for everything ! That’s what my stepdaughters mother demanded when we said enough is enough that we were paying for everything and having the child more even though the mother sat at home all day and we worked she took my husband to court to try make him have they’re daughter all the time and carry on lying for everything’s

The judge told the mother she is othtic and she needs to be the parent she is and when she works she needs to provide childcare in the set days she agreed ! Why should OP wife be messed around and have days changed ? This father has it really easy like a lot parent having they’re children a few hours a week and then they say hey I can’t do that now so you’ll ah w to change it all as I say so.

How do you think this is right ?
The judge didn’t think this mother is a good parent and is pathetic

Tempus isnt wrong about the court order, You cant make a parent see their kid by court order, The father in this case is'nt cutting down his visitation he is asking to change one day as he has work, The title to this thread is misleading.

Isn't *

meme70 who said that fathers shouldn't have 50% responsibility for their kids? I think you'll find it's nearly always the mothers who believe that dads should only get EOW. Tbh in many cases it's actually best for the children to have one main stable place to call home and to have regular visits to dad hence it being the norm. And I say this as a stepmum whose DSCs were with us every single week from Thu-Sun. We've since gone to EOW Thu-Fri then Thu-Sun because the DCs weren't getting any weekend time with their mother.

Can you find me a documented example where an NRP has faced punishment for not seeing their DCs? As per this: When your ex-partner refuses to be involved "There is nothing in the law which can make a parent be involved in their child’s life if they simply choose not to be" (the website I've linked to is "part of the Government’s help & support for separated families initiative" i.e official advice).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a good thing if a dad or mum doesn't want to see their DC but it's no good coming on here encouraging the OP to up the acrimony when it won't even result in what they want.

@meme70 Most stepparents do not apply for parental responsibility do don't have legal rights.

You don't know enough details to judge whether or not the Dad is pulling his weight. The mum might have moved away after divorce (closer to her family or new husband) or the Dad might have moved to earn more so the children get maximum maintenance. They might live near each other so the 7pm pickup could be to an address minutes away.

The 7pm pick up on Friday might not mean much quality time now but before long the children will be older and going to bed later.

I speak as a divorced adult when I say that I maximise the EOW weekend that I'm stuck with by doing chores like gardening and adult socialising when my kids aren't here for the weekend and focusing on fun when they are here. I don't think that it's unreasonable for both parents to have whole weekends with the kids.

I do think about the day he has with his dd but we don't know the circumstances there. They might spend the day at hospital appointments, doing activities the boys don't enjoy or doing household stuff that is hard with 3 young kids rather than 1 like doing dump runs.

Sorry but you would frustrate me if I was either your wife or her ex. Yes you are married but this is her problem to sort with her ex - not yours. If my dh was this involved in my dcs and their father....I wouldn't like it.

My dcs only see their dad every other weekend. They didn't see him last weekend because of the snow so now it will be 4 weeks in total since they have seen him. They are similar ages to your wife's dcs....they will adapt.

It's also up to the father to explain it to them.

You seem very hands on as a step father which is absolutely great. But I feel from reading your thread, you do need to step back slightly. There are some parts of being a step parent which is out of your control. This being one of them.

@meme70
Many couples fall into the pattern of Dad working FT and mum working PT after kids arrive. A full time job could mean being out of the house 12 hours a day (10 hours work, 2 hours commuting) so how can someone in those circumstances have the children 50% of the time? The best that they could do is every Friday/Saturday night and Sunday until bedtime but when does mum get weekend time with the kids?
Most jobs can't be made flexible/part-time and if the Dad is going to ask family to have the kids or pay for childcare then they might as well be the mum.

How do single parents working FT manage then? It would mean the children being in childcare, but even an hour or two in the evenings and mornings can be precious. It's all about how you make that time special. You could make it very mechanical, with dinner served but not much talking taking place, washing be about filling in the bath and letting them in it for 15 minutes, telling them to wash and then rushing to get them dressed, and bed time can be about putting them in bed and shutting the door, or all this can be done is at least some level of fun and bonding. Yes it's exhausting for the parent, much easier to come home after a long day and just passing out in front of the TV until bedtime, but if you want a c

oops...

want a close relationship with your kids, then that's what you do even after a 12 hour work day.

I am a single parent of teens and work.
School days are manic here. It involves kids get home, they eat then chill in different rooms until I get back. I get dinner on, shower, finish dinner, clear up, help anybody who has a test (one kid doing Gcse, another doing AS and a third with assessments every half term) which can take me to 9pm. I usually watch a little tv while listening out for quietening down sounds by 10pm.

If they had to travel to Dad's, he'd be getting home in the middle of study time so the kids would have to cook meals etc If he moved so he could get home earlier, then the kids would have to travel further. 1 hour+ in rush hour from Dad's vs 20 minute walk from my house - no question which is better for the kids.

Ideally my kids would see their Dad more but it's impossible to fit that time in. They value time on their own/with their friends and their Dad doesn't want them to move schools and travel far when my home is convenient. He works in a job that's only available in city locations like London (which I realise is an MN cliche ) and he doesn't want to let the kids (and himself) down by earning less and the kids subsequently having a lower standard of living.

You sound like more of a caring DF than their actual dad, they'll get over it, but they'll remember who was there for them!