How can a father decide to see his sons less.

[Daddydoodoo]

Advice welcome...
My wife currently has an arrangement in place for my step sons to see their dad every weekend. One week sat through sun and one week Sun only. He has decided after 5 years of this he now only wants to see them every fortnight. He has told the boys it's due to his work forcing him to now work weekends.
My wife has taken it really badly as she is worried the boys won't cope seeing their dad once every 14 days.
Can he just change this arrangement when he pleases? It was arranged informally without requiring legal agreement.
How do we explain to his sons he has chosen to see them less.

Fair point Tempus (and I stand corrected on the maintenance too) - I read it a bit differently as I'd assume that if mum/stepdad suggested him having the boys from lunchtime after school Friday, then they would only do that if they knew that he could, ie that he wouldn't be in work on the Friday afternoon. It does read like that, OP doesn't then say 'he refused because he wouldn't be able to get there because of work' he just says that the dad maintained that he didn't want them til 7. If it IS because dad is still in work, then OP is being very disingenuous!

Similarly, OP shouldn't be bringing his own needs into it at all, but again the suggestion is more that they want dad to have quality time - do the activities etc., rather than having the Friday but doing nothing with it. Again, it SHOULDN'T take precedence, but I can kind of understand them being frustrated that the children would exchange what's currently sounding like a 'treat' night at home for an awkward handover time which would then mean that Friday nights become travel and bed.

Ultimately they can't force the dad to agree to have them more, and certainly not at times they'd prefer, even if it overall comes from a good place.

And... I am TOTALLY in agreement that Dad's time comes first and that is the thing that must be made to work - but I also think that a step-parent who places a strong value on quality time and also building bonds with the children he lives with has to be a good thing.

I'm sorry as a child of a seperated family, and whos father often worked until 6/7 my dad picking and my brother and his two step children (they lived with their father) at 7/8 at night was one of the best times. And he lived an hour and half away from us, so no it wasnt nessarilly what you would call quality time but it was time in the car to chat, tell him about our weeks, bond.

It is quality time the dad gets to do bed time, read a story, they get to wake up with their dad, you don't have to do something for "quality" time. The bonding you can experience by doing the bed time routine is amazing.

Your needs as a step father come second. He is their dad hes asked to comprimse. In fact a comprise that suits you. You still get your swimming time whilst hes at work on a friday and he gets the bonding time of bed time. Yet YOU not he have said no to this.

I was going to say he shouldnt have told them your wife was to blame but it turns out that it is.

Stop using them as pawns and try and find away where he can see his children

Wow I'm feeling the heat.

To clarify my wife didn't feel she wanted to give him access on the Friday from 7pm as that didn't make up for currently seeing their dad every weekend to seeing him every 14 days. And the boys go to bed at 8pm so his suggestion of picking them at 7pm would result in little quality time where as a Friday is our family day, we all go swimming after school get dinner together and watch a movie. Both my wife and I also work and we both negotiated with our employers to ensure we have a Friday off to allow us to have time as a family. This was my wife's decision however we discussed it together as it also impacts on our family. The extra Sunday we will have the boys due to thier dad not doesn't allow that time to be moved as I currently work that Sunday.

My time with children isnt more important but it's not reasonable we sacrifice all our arrangements and family time because of his curcumstances. I take the kids to school every morning, attend every parents night, cuddle the oldest at 1am when he is screaming with growing pains, take them to classes and clubs. None of this their dad does I think my wife is entitled to and I am entitled to have time for our family. His employer has to be flexible. The issue appears he just wants less time with his kids on a Sunday as it doesn't suit his life.

Am afraid your family time doesnt top his family time. Sorry. Sacrifices have to be made on both sides.

So their father is right their mum is stopping them from seeing them because she and you dont think you should change your plans.

Your being unflexiable, as ive said it is quality time, bed time and waking up with the children on a saturday are key parts of bonding and development of relationships.

This all what you and your wife want, not whats hood for the boys

*. The issue appears he just wants less time with his kids on a Sunday as it doesn't suit his life"

I have to laugh slightly at this, youve just explained you dont want him to have them on a friday because it doesnt suit your life, yet you come up with that.

No the issue appears to be that you dont want him to have them on a friday because it doesnt suit your life

Op you sound like my partners ex who refuses to make a slight change as it disrupts her time (she gets every weekend at present)

You will still have every other Friday for family time and I do feel you are making this about you

Circumstances change. It's up to all the parents to make sure the children do not suffer as a result, and make sacrifices if need be

You and your wife are being selfish I'm afraid

You make no sense now you are saying you shouldnt have to sacrifice any of your family time on the friday?? But you were willing to before but only if he picked the kids up at 12pm on the friday which would then mean you miss out on all your "family time"???
The fact he was talking about picking them up at 7 means you DON'T miss out on family time!??
What the childrens Dad has proposed makes the most sense!
This is ridiculous!

I'm guessing OP thought we'd all take his/mothers side.

And with the title hes pinned the blane on the "feckless father" who doesnt want to see his kids.

It turns out the father does want to see his kids and has come up with a sensiable solution to the issue but it doesnt suit op

It's good to get all view points. And having people disagree allows me to really think about our actions. I encourage and thank you for your opinions.

At what point does my wife's interests play a part. Does the fathers decision to change his time rather than ask and give notice take precedent over the little time my wife gets with her sons and family?
He gets another day off during the week but he chooses to not see his sons instead saying he has to look after his daughter. How do we explain that dad can't see you on Tuesday after school because he looks after your sister. He could easily pick up the boys and have time with all 3 of his kids. If it was me I would bend over backwards to get time with my kids, not reduce time and then suggest something that only suits him.

To clarify my wife did ask the boys about Friday night and and them loosing weekly contact. They both felt the older one understanding more that he was sad that it would be 14 days in between visits as apposed to 7 days. The dad has come up with no solutions to address this length of time without seeing his sons. The Friday would be 13 days instead of the now 14 days. And again after considering it I beleive my wife is right to protect her quality time with the boys.

@Daddydoodoo - I really think you all need to be a bit more flexible here. You've explained the situation a bit better now but a few things strike me.
Firstly - you can't control what he does on his time. So if he collects his kids at 7 on a Friday & keeps them up past their bedtime that's none of your or your wife's business & it won't impact on getting up early for school.
Secondly - you will have every second Friday for family time, so cherish that.
I do hear what you're saying re the Sunday's he has them which you currently work. Is it frustrating that you have sorted work to suit current arrangements & he now wants to change that - I really get this as my exh tries to do this a lot - however the day may come when you need him to change stuff for you guys & you having been flexible now will stand to you.
The kids will be fine & they will get used to the new routine. Your wife is worrying unnecessarily about the 14 day gap. This is the norm for lots of kids & they deal with it very well.

You are so petty its an hour out of your family time, You and your wife need to start putting her kids first, You both come across as really entitled and controlling on what sort of access he has as though the kids are your property.

So because you do school drop offs, deal with growing pains and attend parents evenings... you have the right to refuse his request?

Now you say his wife refused access on Friday...before it was you who didn't agree.

Either way....he's right...Your wife is refusing access on Fridays, because it doesn't fit in with your time ad a family.

His employer has to be flexible

You cannot dictate what his employer HAS to do.
You don't know the workings of his team and requirements of service provision.
I work in HR and the organisation can change working patterns if the service requires it.

Of course we'd try and be flexible...but it's not a right...and consideration has to be given to other employees who are working the weekends..because very often in my experience...they value weekends as much as the next person whether or not they have children. The needs of the organisation and service come above the needs of individual employees.

Your thread title is misleading. You and your wife are the ones being inflexible with his change of circumstances ...thus leading him to say their mum is denying access.

You make it sound like he just decided to reduce his time with them.

My wife has taken it really badly as she is worried the boys won't cope seeing their dad once every 14 days

She's not that worried, if she's unwilling to be flexible.

At what point does my wife's interests play a part

It's not about her interests...but the interests of the boys.

Also if your wife was that "concerned" about the gap between her children seeing their Dad she would have offered the friday, Sounds like she just loves to dramatise everything, sounds like you do to.
Making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I feel sorry for the dad. Every weekend which means he cannot do things in a weekend (if he wanted to go away or work etc) as he has Saturday - Sunday and every Sunday. Surely a full weekend every other weekend is better for all concerned?

Can he not have them for tea one night in the week? They don't have to stay over, could he not just pick up from school/childminder and give them tea.

And what time they go to bed on his watch is none of your business

Again its about your wife not your wifes children. When do her interests play a part? When the needs of her children have been met. The needs of her children are to see their father. Something you/she is being selfish over.

I might agree 5 days notice is not great notice, and in an ideal world it would have been nice for there to be a conversation about changing the agreement, so you had time to alter your family time etc.and indeed prepare the children for the change in routine. EOW is pretty standard, and its designed so that both parents get weekends so they can have family time. I understand your situation is slightly different because you've made friday your weekly family time, but as i and others have said both sides have to make sacrifices, hes sacrificing his sunday you are unwilling to sacrifice your friday.

You say ots your wifes right to protect her quality time with her children, it is not her right to prevent her children from having time with their dad.

As to why cant he have all three children, i think you've answered this but how old is his daughter? Considably younger? More reliant on him. I'll give you a senerio how would you feel if the boys came home and you asked did you have a nice time with dad and the response was well he wasnt interested in us because "little sis" was there and every time she cried he had yo cuddle her, change her nappy, she threw a tantrum etc. This indeed wouldnt be ok.
So hes saying to prevent that situation that he cant have the boys at a time his attention would be on her. I don't know but that doesnt seem massively unreasonable.

You keep on anout reducing contact, hes not hes changing contact.

You keep saying why does he get to dictate something thats only suitable to him why do you get to dictate something thats only suitable to you.

Alsi staying uo late on a friday is part of friday its fun and its him that has to put up with tired children not you

assuming that the ex is telling the truth - that he now needs to work when previously he didn't- what exactly is it you expect him to do? He cannot continue with the current pattern of contact if he is working when contact should take place. Can you not see that? Are you suggesting that he can't change his job or make any kind of change until the youngest child is 18? what if his job situation is 'do the job or leave/be made redundant'? Presumably you expect him to pay maintenance? You must also remember that he is under no obligation to discuss the wider issues - such as they may or may not be - with either his ex or you.

It may well be the case that the current pattern of contact doesn't work for personal reasons but you can't actually force him into seeing his children more. Indeed, if your concern is the children's distress at not seeing their father as much, then digging in your heels is hardly going to help, is it? Are the children your main priority here or is it all about you?

Finally - the children are just as much a 'family' and deserve 'family time' with their father as they do with the rest of you. Most parents would give anything to live with their children full time and don't relish the fact that another adult may be taking their place. Unfortunately, the reality of relationship breakdown is that we have to grit our teeth and get on with it. The suggestion that because he isn't caring for his children full time means he doesn't care is entirely unreasonable and you need to think about how you would feel if the shoe were on the other foot.

New partners with strong opinions they are not afraid to voice can do more harm than good. There are many parenting years ahead of you and no idea whatsoever of what lies ahead. You never know when you might need him to be flexible and let me tell you, my ex and his inflexibility has come back to bite him more than once.

How do we explain that dad can't see you on Tuesday after school because he looks after your sister.

You don't. The boys are only used to their dad being available at the weekends, at 5 and 7 years old they're not going to be thinking "ooh, dad works weekends now, surely he must get some time of in lieu during the week?" If they do question it you just say sorry darlings but daddy needs to work just like mummy and/or I have to. Sounds like you and your wife are massively projecting your own frustrations with the kids' dad onto how the boys will feel, I'm sure they'd love to see their dad on a Friday night rather than not at all.

You do sound inflexible, you’re only losing every other Friday but you’re also gaining every other Sunday!
But also their dad is completely out of order for picking his new child over his two sons. Why can he have them if he’s looking after his DD? That bit baffles me? What’s his reasoning?

Why can’t he have his DSs is what I meant

His employer doesn't have to be flexible. I've just spent the first 4 months of married life on the opposite shift to my husband. We hardly see each other. Yes he is finally moving over to my shift this month but it wasn't a priority for our employer. We have every other weekend off so when my husband does move he and his ex partner will switch the weekends they have their son. They have SS 50/50 so the rest of the days we have him we tend to work around her Rota. You've got to be flexible if you want them to have a relationship with their father, and it's likely he has no control over his work days.

As a resident parent who is married and my dh is a step parent he takes a step back when it comes between me and my Ex making arrangements with ds the same with his dw and do you know what we have zero problems because of it. That’s not to say each partner isn’t respect but we are the main parent here.

It does happen that employers want people to work weekends. Ex was the same and had to work every other Saturday when taking this new job. So we changed the arrangements to accommodate. Ex picms my ds week 1 Friday through to Saturday 5pm week 2. Sunday 9 drop off at school Monday. Why can’t your wife accommodate the Friday? Surely he can have EOW instead which is a fairly common access due to parents having to work weeeknds and enabling parents to have a weekend to themselves. Your time doesn’t triumph his time with his children it’s all about the children’s time with the other parent.

I think your anger about it is a bit more potentially upsetting to the boys than you think.

It’s not so drastically reduced contact that I would at all worry about the boys relationship. In fact as they get older every weekend would probably become a bit unwieldy as they got friends and sleep overs and going out.

If your wife feels this isn’t great then she should have a chat.

Winosaurus
Why can’t he have his DSs is what I meant

I suspect that for all the bluster, the OP and wife are not prepared to offer it to him in a way that works.