At My Wits End

[CountingTheDaysTilFriday]

Hi there,

I am new to mumsnet as I'm hoping to get some advice. I'm absolutely at the end of my tether. My DH has 2 children in their late 20's who live a few hours away from us. My DH has always been a great Dad to them and our 2 DDs but unfortunately they have both been too heavily influenced by their DM that the damage is already done. She has done some terrible things to them over the years growing up and we we would have had them live with us, but it has only all really come to light as they've got older. Unfortunately his DS no longer talks to him and we have no idea why, as the last time we saw him everything was fine.

His DS is a massive drama queen and every week is like something out of a soap opera. She has had several abortions and now has a 4 year old daughter with a guy who apparently used to beat her up and ended up in prison for drug dealing and abusing her. Last time she came to stay with us she told us Social Services were involved and told her they would take her daughter into care if she got back with him. Guess what, she went home, got out of the women's refuge she was in and got back with him. My DH's attitude is "you know what she's like, just like her Mother", but I can't think like that. I'm sorry, but I think when you become a Mum, you will do anything to protect your kids and put them first.

Anyway, I looked on his phone over Christmas because I suspected something was going on with her and she has sent him loads of messages asking for money every few days. The messages are really emotionally blackmailing ones and he keeps giving in and sending her money all the time. Her DD is now at school, yet she has no job and lives in a council house and is in receipt of benefits etc. but apparently she is in trouble with Social Services or whoever now as well for fraud. She'll cry on the phone to my DH about not being able to pay bills etc but then I'll see on FB later that evening that she is out drinking with her friends. I have felt like she is treating him like her own personal ATM and never giving anything in return. She never ever sends him a Birthday or Christmas card or to her step-sisters, let alone a present, but we have sent her thousands over the years to keep helping her out.

She is 27 now and really needs to get a grip of her life once and for all. My DH and I had a massive argument Friday night as apparently she had texted him again saying the bailiffs were round and she needed £275 to pay them. I told him he has to stop bailing her out once and for all, or she will never learn to stand on her own two feet. She borrows money off of other people too. I had had enough and messaged her politely but firmly and she replied with some really nasty messages saying I have no idea what her life is like and I don't care about her. I have had it really hard in the past, but I have managed to turn my life around and stand on my own two feet and set a good example to my children, so there's no excuse.

Anyway, my DH has completely taken her side and now we are on the verge of splitting up after 20 years together because of it. He won't ever stop bailing her out and she will never learn to be independent. On top of that he has lots of other drama in his family, but I do still love him and want to stay together, but I don't see how we can continue like this.

Any advice (even if perhaps I am in the wrong), would be appreciated.

If you don’t want to separate I would definitely separate your finances. Have him pay his share of mortgage, bills, shared child costs and savings etc and you pay your share but keep the rest of your wage to yourself. That way it’s his own money he is sending to his DD.

Btw there is nothing at all wrong with living in a Council house and receiving benefits.

It does sound like you’re at an impasse with him continuing to support his DD and I can hear how frustrated you are, but if you’ve told him how you feel and he’s “taken her side” I think things will get worse over time, not better.

Do you have joint finances that he’s paying her from or your own money, so it’s only him affected? Even if it’s “his own” money there’ll be a knock on within your household unless you’re very wealthy.

I don’t know what to say other than he’s made his bed and it’s unlikely to change so if you can’t live with it you need to split up. Heartbreaking after 20 years, but better than 20 more of resentment.

I think you have two choices

• separate your finances totally. Get your DP to give you a lump sum for bills, rent, food or put it in a joint account. Then just let him do what he wants. Of course it’s not right, he’s enabling her to be totally chaotic but she will not change, and he has heard you, but not changed.
• leave your relationship.

It wasn't your place to text her tbh. It's his daughter... as long as he's not using your money leave him to bail her out.

Very very difficult situation, and not one that brings easy answers. I'm wondering about how this makes you feel in all of the chaos and what would improve it for you? Perhaps reading text messages will just add fuel to an already volatile situation, so the less you know the better. That's what I did in a sort of similar situation after stepping in for years. Withdraw, set financial boundaries and let him get on with it and minimise your input. That will bring calm to you, and that's what you sound like you need. Keep getting involved, you'll continue to get worn down by it.

What is your bottom line? What can you live with? Tell him and see if he’s prepared to do whatever it is and stick with it. Otherwise, your relationship needs to end.

You cannot blame mum for everything here. Dad has had an input -or a lack of. The children are products of their parents - both of them.

And yes, there are plenty of reasons why working and single parenting can be difficult or nigh on impossible. Understanding the wider context would perhaps make you less judgemental and more supportive of your step daughter? It is not easy to leave abusive relationships, even when you know you must.

Thank you all so much for your advice, I really do appreciate it (even if some of it is not what I want to hear).

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as judgemental if I did. Maybe I do need to be more tolerant and thank God I haven't been in an abusive relationship. I come from a different background to my Husband and his family and sometimes the differences are really hard. Nothing wrong with a council house and benefits, but I don't understand how she can keep getting herself in debt and needs bailing out constantly.

I do care about her and feel sorry for her, but she keeps making bad decisions and not helping herself out. I have all this now for 20 years and I hoped when she finally grew up and left home things would change, but they have just got worse in some ways. I'm just so tired of the drama.

Thank God some of our finances are separate, so technically he is spending from his half of our income on her.

In the meanwhile I need to think what is best for our DDs and how all this affects them too.

DH not talking to me and we have started talking about potential future living arrangements etc. It's just all so sad :(

OP is it possible she is an addict? It sounds like that’s a possibility. Or if she has taken payday loans it is almost impossible to catch up again once you’ve taken one.

What I think might help is to ask yourself where you would withdraw support if it was your own daughter. Have a realistic think about it and it might help you to see where your DH is coming from.

Good question DonnyAndVladSittingInATree. I have wondered this myself. Her DD's Father got caught speeding with their DD in the car at the time. Apparently when he was searched they found cannabis and he got in trouble - just a couple of weeks before he assaulted her for the second time.

She's told me in the past her Mum is growing it at her home and gave her drugs when she was a teenager as she took them herself. She also used to be quite a few stone overweight and has lost a lot of weight since she's been involved with him, so perhaps.

Yes, I have often thought about this, and of course, I would do anything for my kids, but I would hope that they wouldn't have made the same choices she has (over and over again).

My Husband and I managed to get ourselves in debt shortly after we were married and my parents could have bailed us out, but my Dad refused to as he explained to me we would never learn if we didn't have to pay it all back over 10 years ourselves. We did, and it was bloody hard at times to make ends meet but we did it. And do you know what? I will never get in debt like that ever again. I was angry at the time, but it was the right lesson to learn.

It doesn't sound to me like he's been a great dad at all. Who says that of their daughter you know what she's like, just like her Mother.

It sounds that he now feels guilty hence showering her with money to make up for it.

Frankly, that's his choice what he does with his own disposable income and if he thinks that giving her money makes him a good dad, then there's nothing you can do about it. After all, if you wanted to give your parents money out of your own money because they swindled all their savings in stupid things and we now in a bad situation, surely you wouldn't him to threaten you to leave you because you feel bad for them and don't want to see them on the street.

It's hard when it affects people who are your own flesh and blood, love deeply and feel responsible for.

swingofthings, sorry, I really can't agree with your comments. I do appreciate your thoughts and everyone is entitled to their opinion, which I respect, but it's not that clear cut.

He has been a very good Dad to them and our children. Every time we had his daughter stay with us while she was growing up, we treated her hair for the thousands (and yes, I mean thousands), of head lice she had in her long, matted hair. We took her out and bought her new clothes as all of her clothes were either too small, full of holes etc. or had inappropriate slogans on (I remember one saying 'if you think I'm a b*tch, you should meet my Mum', when she was about 13) and her underwear was a thong when she was about 10.

We spent time with her and cared for her and made sure she was going to bed at a sensible time, not roaming the streets at 1am in the morning before she was even 12, like she told us she did at home. My Husband has always paid his child support until they were both out of f/t education, even at times when we had to sell some of our belongings to make ends meet and has always called/texted them regularly to see how they are and have a chat. He always tells them he loves them and we always made an effort to do fun things with them when they were with us.

If she didn't constantly keep asking us and all of the rest of her family for money, we wouldn't be 'throwing it at her'.

Yes, of course, I would support my parents should the roles be reversed, but I wouldn't keep bailing them out if they keep making the same mistakes. That is stupidity.

It is very hard indeed.

OP, from my perspective your DH needs to man up, become authoritative and tell his adult daughter to grow up and sort herself out once and for all. I feel sorry for you and also for your step-daughter's daughter.

Parents should absolutely support their children, but there comes a point when enough is enough. Your DSD is 27 for goodness sake. It sounds like she's not doing anything to help herself - what a terrible example to set to her own child. If she was working hard, studying, trying to better herself and really, pro-actively trying her best to pay her bills, be a good role model to her child and also making sacrifices because she knows she can't afford it, then I'm guessing you would be more supportive of her receiving financial help from your household budget. Your husband however, is funding her to live an entitled, 'poor me' lifestyle which is ridiculous given her age.

Does your husband give the same money to your own children every time he bails your step daughter out? I'm guessing you're in a situation where you're in the habit of solely buying things for your own children and he spends his money his eldest two. Not good!

If you and your DH both work hard, run your family home, and can't afford a nice lifestyle, holidays, meals out etc because he is having to fund her, that is not acceptable. It should not be left to you to pay for 'luxury' items etc. I could have interpreted your post incorrectly so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this is what is happening.

I find posts like this incredibly frustrating as I had an incredibly hard and poor upbringing, yet worked my socks off from 16 to be able to move out, buy a house, pay myself through uni and forge a great career. I simply can't tolerate laziness so my whole response to your post is completely personal to my viewpoint.

OMG MrsPWorkingmummy, thank you so much! This is EXACTLY how I feel and I'm glad one person agrees with me!!!

I've had a good think since Friday and perhaps I am being a bit harsh and judgemental on her, but ultimately I stand by what I did and said to her.

To be fair he doesn't ever bail his son out anymore and he is off doing his own thing (like a grown up!) and thank God we have worked hard to get where we are now so are fairly financially stable. Only of recent times though. We have really struggled in the past and couldn't make ends meet without selling our stuff and at one point I had 3 jobs to boost our income.

Our children have always been looked after financially, but to be honest, I feel a lot of that is down to me as I have done the same as you - put myself through uni as an adult and retrained as a teacher so that our family can have a better life. Perhaps that is partly why it grates me so much.

The main culprit in all of this is their Mother, who has done nothing good for them in her life as a Mum and has just screwed them both up.

Well done to you, I admire anyone who works hard to better themselves and I do believe there are ways, you just have to work hard and make the right decisions in life. You are setting a great example to your kids :)

I totally agree that keeping on bailing her out is not going to help and probably only make the situation worse, but it still remains his choice whether to do so or not. Most parents who do bail out their adult kids do so because their can't break free or out of guilt.

I don't agree though that you can just blame her mum. After all, she had a good role model from coming to her dad and you, so she had the opportunity to see a different life to what she had with her mum. She chose a life on benefits, that was her choice, her mum didn't force her.

I don't blame you for feeling how you do OP, I'd feel the same in your situation.

She sounds like the type who would cut your DH out of her life if he doesn't do what she tells him wants, is this his fear do you think?

If you were to split over this, would he be able to afford maintenance for your own DDs and still bail her out?

Thanks OpenthePickles and swingofthings. I really appreciate it.

I don't think she ever would, as knows which side her bread is buttered. He could be worried about it though. Yes, I think he could, but with rent and bills etc. to pay he would struggle and I really don't want to do that to him, unless we have exhausted every other avenue.

swingofthings yes, you're right, he is definitely feeling guilty and to be honest, I don't really blame him. But at the same time, his ex-wife cheated on him and left him for someone else, so it's not fair he's been punished all these years and because she lived so far away with his kids he/we could only see them every school holidays.

OP, you are entirely correct. If you ever watch any of those lurid 'intervention style' programmes about people struggling with drug or alcohol addictions, most of them have well meaning parents propping their lifestyles up. When they stop providing that support, only them do they start to take responsibility for their lives.

In some ways its not her fault: people do what works and she has always had money and support in the past, so why wouldn't she expect it in the future?

Thanks thethoughtfox :) Exactly.

Hi OP, was you DH divorced when you met him?

Bibbidee - yes, for around 7 years.