DSS refusing contact

[AndersArms]

DSS is 12. DH split from his exP when DSS was 2. ExP didn't allow overnight contact until DSS was 4 and then it was only once a month until DSS was 8, when exP got a new partner and decided that she was ready for EOW (but still only Saturday to Sunday). DH never pushed it, thinking a cordial relationship with exP was important.

DSS has always struggled to say bye to his mum and even now at age 12 tantrums like a 3 year old when DH collects him. He's fine 10 mins after leaving home, and while he is with us. This came to a head recently when DH gave exP dates for next 10 months and DSS is point blank refusing to come, and exP is suggesting she will allow him to choose not to come.

DSS is apparently unable to say to either DH or exP why he behaves like this and what the problem is. The only thing he says is that he misses his mum and his brother on his mum's side. DH says DSS is still to come notwithstanding his objection and/or needs to verbalise the issue so it can be addressed. ExP now says DSS is miserable days before and days after contact. ExP has decided that DSS is old enough not to be forced and is effectively saying she is considering not making DSS available for contact and is taking advice on this.

DH is minded to insist on contact and if exP does withhold it, force the issue by applying to Court. He doesn't agree that DSS should, at age 11, dictate whether contact happens and doesn't want DSS in the future to think he just gave up on contact. He's also, obviously, gutted that DSS seems to be suggesting that he no longer wants to have contact with DH/our family (we have 3DC).

We hope we can together get to the bottom of the issue. From our perspective there is nothing other than a difference in family style and DSS aware that his little brother is still at home with his mum. We know the Court would consider DSS's views if it came to that but presumably he would have to have a concrete reason before a Judge would default from the position that contact is desirable?

I don't really know how to support DH with this for the best.

Sorry but Ss will be likely told to do what his dps decide. . Realistically his dm has pandered to him to piss your dh off when it suited her. Now she wants rid of the poor boy it has backfired on her. Without a reason to stay away a judge will say he has to see his df and dm will be bloody expected to make sure it happens. Poor ds is saying he doesn't want to go because that's what his dm has allowed him to say (more likely told him to day) .

The child clearly does not want to come.

If I was your dh I would instead offer to spend the afternoon with him and take him to his favourite hobby or out for lunch

At his age if it went to court and he expressed that he didn't want to go to the NRP they wouldn't force him to, he is seen to be old enough to make that decision.
I would suggest to your DH rather than force the issue it would be better to see SS in smaller amounts, maybe not overnight but for Saturday afternoons or something so there's no pressure.
Maybe get him a phone or iPad so dad can contact him regularly without being too intrusive, just a few texts or FaceTime calls a week to let him know he's there if he needs him etc.
Is your home life very different to DMs? Maybe the 3 siblings don't give him much space and he finds it overwhelming and would rather just have some alone time with his dad rather than with the whole family unit?

And please try to see it from DMs point of view - if my child was very unhappy going to visit dad and was of secondary school age I'm not sure I'd force him to either... I'd certainly encourage contact but I wouldn't want to make him go if he was getting distressed and miserable

Thanks for the opinions, useful to consider from the other perspective. Of course we don't want DSS to be miserable. We want him to want to come. We strongly feel that the reason he doesn't want to come is because he is jealous that his little brother is getting time with their DM that he isn't. It's just sad for DH that this could be the reason that contact comes to a slow down at what feels like a very early age.

Will suggest that DH does something one on one with DSS with no pressure to resume overnights at this stage and see if that helps.

At his age the Court will respect his wishes and not force him to go.

Far better to take a softly softly approach and try to get him on side.

My GCs went through a stage of this. My son agreed to no overnights but went out for meals/day trips instead. In an effort to improve things he invited the ex and the half brother along too on some occasions.

My eldest GC is very sensitive and worries a lot about her mum being lonely. I would bear with it for a while. Respecting the decision now might lay a strong foundation for the future.

DS14 is refusing to go to his dad any longer. He has been dragging himself to go for about 2 years. He too won't tell his dad why. The reason is, according to him, because his dad won't listen to him, instead will go on the defensive, tell him that his reasons as silly and that he is hurting his feeling. To be frank, I too can imagine that because communication with him was always a problem in my relationship with him. He indeed never really listened to my feelings.

Still I wish they could talk and find a compromise, but it looks like ex has gone into victim mode and has decided to let it be. I don't think it is for the best, but I won't force him as ultimately, it is between the two of them.

How frequent were the dates that your h gave his exP? Same as before or more frequent?

Your h is vvvvvvu to insist that his son has to explain why he doesn't want to visit. Most 12 year olds would be unable to say directly "I'd rather be with mum and my brother." because they know it would hurt their dad's feelings and lead to more awkward questions. It's very unreasonable to assume that he knows why. Some human feelings can't be explained. If he does know why then I'd imagine that he'd only come clean to a neutral third party who he'd want to swear to secrecy.

I understand that his mother has created a catch-22 situation. The less he sees his dad, the more distant they are. The more distant they are, the less likely he wants to visit. By the way, I don't think that the mum is unreasonable to say that she won't force contact. He's 12 and shouldn't be feeling crap before and after contact. Since there's no way that contact can be forced, it's unfair to take her to court to insist on this. Taking the legal route risks the possibility that dss says he wants Zero contact.

I think your h needs to try and compromise with his son for less frequent or shorter visits. Becoming estranged from a good dad will be a massive tragedy.