Corrections to Child Maintenance

[Traveller123]

CM for one child was set at 150/week last year based on historical earnings as I was unemployed at the time. However, actual earning for Tax year ending 5 April 2017 are much less.

Based on actual earning CM should be 90/week. To recover the overpayment of 60/week I would be paying 30/week till end of next tax year when review is done again.

Whilst the above is mathematically correct, 30/week would not go very far and I would like to see either Son or his Mother struggling. Anyone else faced this situation? If so how did they resolve

My gripe is that the CM is not being spent on the child, but being diverted overseas.
So that's what it comes down to. If you are correct, then that's fair enough, all the maintenance you give should go to your child, even if the resident parent doesn't have to justify how it is spent.

However, what if you are wrong? Bitterness can often cloud judgement and make it easy to forget costs that are taken for granted. Have you actually worked out how much your child is likely to cost? The extra bedroom, the cost of travel, the £10 there and there for birthday presents when invited to parties. The googles for the swimming lessons, the £10 for reading books, the £10 for the hairdresser etc...

When my ex stopped paying maintenance with all the excuses in the world, he tried to justify that the kids didn't cost much, so I actually bothered to put all my costs for the previous three months down on a spreadsheet and showed him what he would need to contribute if he paid for 50%. That certainly shut him up, although he still didn't pay maintenance.

I suggest you ask a more impartial party to work out what your child is likely to be costing so that you get a more realistic idea of whether she is likely to be pocketing your child's maintenance. Personally, I would say that with a total of £1,800 a month, it's unlikely there is much left at the end of the month unless there no small luxuries at all.

To Janeismymiddlename. The 200/month sent overseas is not being received by ex wife's bank, but direct by her father and sister via WesternUnion.

If she wants to save some money for future why does she not charge her family rent or rent out house to someone else?

I'm going to go against the grain here. Op is not questioning whether he should be paying and has paid quite fairly imo. Personally I would write off the overpayment as much as it's annoying and just keep paying what it's been worked out as now. Unfortunately once it's paid you don't get a say in what she does with it. CMS are a nightmare to deal with which is why my ex gets away with paying a measly amount because my daughter does rely on it for things and I'd rather it not be messed up so we've done it between ourselves.

To: Swingofthings.

Around 200/month is sent overseas direct to her father and sister via WesternUnion and there are photos on Facebook going back as far as 2013 that show her family in house I bought for ex-wife before we married.

Ex wife's current total in hand is 2250 plus whatever interest she is making on her UK 125,000 capital (estimated at 150 per month). Interest she makes on capital in her home country I don't know as she ignored court instruction to provide Bank Statements. So at least 2400/month for herself and one child.

I would like to make a private agreement, but wife states that she has already provided her budget to the Courts and they rejected it so what is point of repeating exercise. Budget submitted to court was for 4500/month and included ridiculous figures such as

500 for childcare. Why necessary when grandparents can provide free?

300 for holidays. That's 3600/year!

200 for restaurants.

200 for hair. Why necessary as she is qualified hairdresser.

800 for food. For two people!

600 for Car. That is because we used to lease a BMW

150 toiletries. For two people!

1000 for Daughter's University. Why? I paid that myself anyway.

The 4500/month was in addition to her earnings and benefits of 1200/month. So she was looking to have 5700/month in hand. Wow!

A lot more than I earn. Hence court rejected and remarked it was another sad example of an ex wife basing expectations on greed as opposed to needs.

I would be happy to pay 50% of actual costs if ex wife was prepared to provide details such as bank statements, receipts, etc. That she does not want to enter into discussions convinces me that she does not want me to see how little is actually spent on the child due to her decision to send money overseas.

Your ex-wife is free to spend her money as she chooses. And yes, that includes turning down free childcare with grandparents, as many people do because they don't want the strings attached.

You sound both controlling and tight. You aren't allowed to scrutinise what she spends money on - she doesn't want you pouring over her finances, criticising and judging, and I can quite see why.

Just pay the maintenance - with the settlement your ex got, you clearly have significant assets.

To Somerville: The Settlement ex-wife got was full equity of family home and I had to borrow to raise it. So now I have 250K Debt whilst ex has 125K Capital and a debt free house (that I bought) in her home country.

If she wants me to pay 50% of actual costs then I need to see the evidence.

If she wants to turn down free childcare and take son to her work at weekends (which he hates by the way) that's okay, but to stick her hand out for 500/month for childcare at same time is nonsense.

To Goosey. Have decided to ignore the overpayment from last year. Its 3,000 pounds, but was not missed at the time. Her attempt to buy a house fell through at last minute costing her 1,500 in fees. Add that to the deposit on house she rents and removal costs will soon reach 3,000, maybe more?

Well you either had the shittest solicitor in the history of the legal profession, or you have other assets you're not mentioning, such as a large pension.

Seriously though, you think you're hard done by and this just keeps spiralling. Your initial queries was about overpaid CM from when you were out of work for what must have been a significant amount of time, and then you claim you can't see your child because you work abroad.

If my child had a parent who prioritised everything else ahead of spending time with them then I'd expect them to at least pay up properly for their care, too. But doing so doesn't mean your ex is beholden to you, or needs to open her bank statements and send receipts. As I said before - that's controlling.

And if you paid half of the childcare your son wouldn't have to go into her work at weekends. Offer to pay it straight to the provider (it'll have to be a weekend nanny, which is bloody expensive) since you're so suspicious she'll pocket it.

Nonsense?

Wow. Childcare from your parents, with strings attached, judgements, expecatations, comments...how does she manage when your parents can't help,out?

To Somerville. Asset split was based on potential earnings. Prior to divorce I worked in Oil industry on high earnings, but that is no longer the case. I have worked overseas last 25 years so nothing new about me being outside UK and ex wife knew that before she agreed to marry.

My parents are retired and son is their only grandchild. So they are happy to look after him at any time and in past have changed their own plans to suit ex wife's trips to her home country. Wanting money for childcare when relatives can provide for free is nonsense. Last school summer holidays son was left with woman who claimed to be a child minder, but was not registered. Son hated it as woman was abusive verbally. When I challenged why she allowed son to stay with such person answer was

"She charged the lowest amount"

When i suggested grandparents take son at weekends answer was

"I don't want your parents to see son again"

How that is meant to constitute putting child's interests first maybe you can explain?

What are the perceived strings attached as suggested?

Strings are that your wife's ex-husband sounds financially controlling and overly intrusive and judgemental about her life. Relying on his parents for childcare therefore exposes her and their child to more of his (your) prying:
"Oh you don't need us next weekend because you're going away? You can afford a holiday? You've got a boyfriend?"
"Oh look, you've dropped him off in a new car!"
"YOU'RE WEARING LIPSTICK!! Is that out of the £150 pounds a month toiletries budget, or have you starved your child to afford it??"

Jeez, why could your ex possibly be avoiding your parents...

Grandparent's time with their grandchildren is meant to be facilitated by their own child. It's your responsibility - not your ex's!

And since you no longer work in oil industry on high wages, surely you'd move home and establish a relationship with your child??

To Somerville. My parents remained neutral throughout the proceedings even ex wife was turning up at their house seeking sympathy whilst I was overseas. Neighbours called the police during one episode and even took a video on their mobile that recorded the abusive language that son, aged 9 at the time, had to witness. Video was shown to social services and they advised that repeated events woild result in their involvement. Police issued a PIN that prevents ex wife from approaching their house.

So sadly ex wife's determination to block son from his grandparents is based on revenge as opppsed to what is good for child😩

Attempts to find job in UK have produced 2 interviews in 8 years. Maybe UK employer don't trust expatriates to stay long as they can earn more overseas? If I were to be employed in CM would drop as earnings would be less.

I think you're doing everything right and your ex wife sounds like hard work and I feel bad for your son.
I honestly think you should write ALL of this down and take it back to court. Not to give your son less money or to make ex wife's life worse but to set out an agreement so you both know where you stand. It sounds very convoluted. Your son should be staying with grandparents not potentially dangerous childcare, also if she's not working why does she need childcare?
It's all very confusing and your son is coming out worst in this? From just what you've said (obviously it's going to be a bit biased) it sounds like she's using your son for money.
There's so much more I could pick on but i think you already know these are problems and I think you need a legal agreement to straighten out all the kinks. For your sons sake please do this.

Best posts so far are:

Ex wife to prepare spreadsheet of expenditure for child and I pay 50%

And

Private arrangement requires TWO cooperative adults

Sadly ex wife does not fit either of these requirements. So what other option is available other than CMS and the aggravation that goes with CMS? Certainly i am not going to take ex wife's word that £4500 per month is cost to raise a child. If she has income of £2400 per month where does she find the balance of £2100 to cover her alleged essential expenditure? This question was asked in court and reply was:

"If I had it that's what I would spend it on"

For clarity I am not looking to evade CM, but to pay an amount that is fair to both parents. Guess some of the posters have had bad experiences and assume all NRP are CM dodgers

Video was shown to social services
Then I really wonder why she would want to stay away from an environment that feels that SS involvement is required!

Attempts to find job in UK have produced 2 interviews in 8 years
It's getting more and more freaky what you seem to know about her personal life. Either you are a control freak stalking her (or getting others to do so), or you are making things up to suit you.

The bitterness that comes from your posts are quite astonishing. I agree fully with you on principle that maintenance should be spent 100% on the child it is paid for, but in your case, there is so much more to the conflictual environment than just to do with maintenance, I feel it is much more of a control issue than money.

Police issued a PIN that prevents ex wife from approaching their house.

Yet another massive dripfeed.

How could you expect her to have her son looked after by your parents when she isn't allowed to approach their house?

If your ex is as bad as you say then how much maintenance to pay is the least of your problems and you should be living back in the UK, applying to court for at least 50/50, if not full custody.

To NeverKnowing: thanks for the comments. They are similar to what Judge (female) said in relation to the demand of £4500 per month for life. Ex wife's own barrister (also female) advised against seeking such an amount, but advice was ignored in the same manner as previous 3 solicitors were ignored.

Ex has plead poverty from beginning of proceedings to this day, but somehow found the money to pay a 5 figure sum for legal fees🤔

Stepdaughters biological father had same trouble and wanted to take her to his home country, but mother wanted money instead. She somehow managed to get daughters birth certificate changed to read

"Father unknown "

Such is the corruption in her home country. However, she did not realise that such action let him off CM forever.

As you point out son is the loser. Oddly enough the courts did not ask what arrangements had been made for child when financial settlement was decided.

Was hoping to avoid courts as the amount paid in fees got out of hand

To Somerville: for legal reasons I am not allowed to post the video as taken by a third party. On the very rare occasions child has stayed with his grandparents ex wife has dropped him off at top of Street out of view of house

If I was to return to UK and not have a job how would I argue a case for custody?

The "drip feed" as you refer to is from what she declared in court such as bank statements, letters from DWP about tax credits. The video was emailed to me as my child was involved.

Nothing posted is made up as no benefit to myself.

Object of thread was to learn how others had dealt with similar situation and some replies have been helpful, but If ex is not prepared to be transparent what's the solution other than going down the CMS or court route?

OP my father worked abroad and was a single parent to three of us children. We went to boarding school and he took whatever time off he could around the holidays. When we were at prep school we were weekly boarders staying with my aunt or gran at weekends my dad wasn't able to fly home for.

To: want2besupermum. I have offered to take child on holidays, but ex will not give his passport. Explanation was:

"If I can't afford holidays why should he be able to go with you?"

It's not about holidays. It's about having custody of your child. If you think you can offer more than his mother can than you need to step up. Otherwise be quiet, sit down and pay as agreed.

Please listen to some of the feedback as meant well.

By the sounds of your post you had solicitors and went to court so there is a ruling over spousal maintenance.
There is a calculation for child support.

That is it, draw a line under it.Forget spreadsheets and asking for breakdown.

Either you go for 50% custody of your son and cope with the financial drop.Yes you might have no money and the fear of that isn't pleasant so may help to empathise with your ex.Most people can't earn big money and raise a child successfully.

No way are your parents neutral so if you recognise that it might help to reduce conflict.

I can't work out if you are bitter or lacking empathy.If it's lack of empathy have you ever tested for Aspergers? If it's bitterness over finances try to let it go, for your own sake.Ruminating isn't healthy and it doesn't move you forward or make you happier.

There is just something in your posts that feels like you struggle with other people's perspectives and perhaps see the world in black & white.I could be wrong but high conflict divorces cause stress to both parties and as a result your son.

I am sure your ex has behaved poorly at times and I am sure you have also behaved badly.Accept what has happened and let all the bitterness go.

Your ex and her money has nothing to do with you now.When a thought comes into your mind, focus on something else.Over time you will stop obsessing and feel happier.

Point is child is blocked from his grandparents and is unable to pursue his hobbies as mother claims petrol is too expensive to take him to swimming and judo both of which are 5 miles away feom house. 2 round trips per week is 40 miles. About 1 gallon which is £6 tops.

Ex maintains that child is suffering because courts did not agree her estimate of £4500 per month is maintenance.

Can any of the posters on this thread say with certainty that it costs £4500 per month to raise a child? The judge (female) slammed it big time and stated child maintenance is for the child and not a pension for the RP.

Can any of the posters confirm that sending money overseas should take priority over child's welfare?

As I work oversea custody is not possible. Legal people made that clear at outset. Likewise if a resigned from an overseas job to return to UK in hope that I would find a job would be criticised by courts as connection between employment and maintenance is simple

No job = No maintenance

Please listen to some of the feedback as meant well.

By the sounds of your post you had solicitors and went to court so there is a ruling over spousal maintenance.
There is a calculation for child support.

That is it, draw a line under it.Forget spreadsheets and asking for breakdown.

Either you go for 50% custody of your son and cope with the financial drop.Yes you might have no money and the fear of that isn't pleasant so may help to empathise with your ex.Most people can't earn big money and raise a child successfully.

No way are your parents neutral so if you recognise that it might help to reduce conflict.

I can't work out if you are bitter or lacking empathy.If it's lack of empathy have you ever tested for Aspergers? If it's bitterness over finances try to let it go, for your own sake.Ruminating isn't healthy and it doesn't move you forward or make you happier.

There is just something in your posts that feels like you struggle with other people's perspectives and perhaps see the world in black & white.I could be wrong but high conflict divorces cause stress to both parties and as a result your son.

I am sure your ex has behaved poorly at times and I am sure you have also behaved badly.Accept what has happened and let all the bitterness go.

Your ex and her money has nothing to do with you now.When a thought comes into your mind, focus on something else.Over time you will stop obsessing and feel happier.

this

For clarity the SM of £400 per month was not determined by the court. It was an offer made by myself based on rental income of £800. As it is unearned income I was happy to give 50%. Ex wife's barrister advised her not to challenge this offer. CM was also my calculation based on historical earnings. Court ruling was how to split assets. To make everything official CM and SM was recorded in the consent order.

Based on feedback I will make the following suggestions to ex wife

Previous payments of £150 per week not to be adjusted
Future payment to be the CMS figure of £90 per week
£60 per week I will put to one side to cover cost of ex wife's and child's airfare to ex wife's home country (about £2400 for one trip) remaining amount (about £700) for child's trust fund.
I pay all school costs direct as previously paid
SM will remain as per consent order £400 per month for 4 years