DP just can't seem to do right.

[MycatsaPirate]

I've posted before about his DD (13) refusing to see or speak to him.

It's been well over a 15 months since she has been to our house. He occasionally sees her briefly on Monday evenings at her activity (which my DD also does) when he is dropping my DD off. He tries to say hello and ask how she is, she's not very forthcoming in her replies and he feels like he doesn't know what to do for the best.

He has been phoning his ex to discuss it. She firstly said she would speak to DD but never got back to him. He left it a couple of weeks and tried again last week. His ex gave a very long list of reasons why DD didn't want to see him including (and I may have forgotten a few) me asking her to put wet and dirty washing into the machine instead of the wash basket, having to share a bedroom with my youngest DD five years ago (she should apparently have had the bedroom to herself eow - 2 bed house, 2 adults, 4 dc) and ex says that dp has put me before his DD (not true, we have included her in absolutely everything over the last 5 years except last 15 months)

Also, that DP refused to have DD for a weekend two years ago. I had booked train tickets to London months before to get them very cheap and booked London Eye for me, DP and my DD's using vouchers I had saved up. At this point his DD had refused to see us for over 3 months. Ex asked DP on the Thursday to have DD Friday to Sunday and he said yes. Ex then changed it to Sunday to Tuesday and our day out was on the Monday. We couldn't afford to pay £70 for a train ticket plus another London Eye ticket.

DD is also annoyed that DP hasn't offered to take her on holiday with us in the last two years. Two years ago we asked her to come with us but she was away at the same time with her mum, ironically in the same place. Last year we went camping 4 miles from home with a bunch of friends. Apparently it's not fair to do this because it's spending money that could go on DD.

We all have tablets and clearly have more money than we let on. The tablets were free with our mobiles and one came free with our TV box. Ex then states that we can afford mobiles and therefore we have more money than we let on.

DP should be doing more. But he has no idea what. He is driving down to where they live next week to attend parents evening. Ex is not going as she is ill. DD is going with her SD and DP said he will attend with them if that's ok. DP gets on ok with SD. Ex says she will ask DD if that is ok. Why the fuck is a 13 year old being asked if it's ok for her Dad to attend parents evening??

We are at an utter loss. I spent a lot of time talking to his DD last weekend when we were helping out at their activity. She was fine with me, I suggested she come up one day in the Easter holidays and we can all go and see a film and said we are going camping again and she is welcome to come with us. I got a shrug. DP told ex that we have offered these things and his EX says the shrug means she doesn't want to come. Then why all the fuss about not being asked to come last year?

Every time DP asks his ex anything she says she will defer to DD. This has been going on pretty much since I was involved in her life, from aged 8. His DD has always been deferred to and allowed to make decisions, sometimes decisions which I think she is not emotionally equipped to deal with.

DP is reaching breaking point now. His DD just will not talk to him. She won't see him. She won't come for a day out. She won't see him if he goes down there. He has never missed her birthday or Christmas. We have bought her Easter eggs. We have always included her on days out to theme parks etc over the years, often me scouring places for ages trying to find deals to enable us to take the four dc with us.

Just don't know what on earth to do now.

The problem here is that your DP isn't very proactive and seems to be permission-seeking all the time. Why is this?

It's parents evening. Why is he asking permission to go? Presumably if it's his child's parents evening then he turns up and is there. Similarly with school plays, why does he need to wait to be told that they're happening. Presumably the details are on the school website? This isn't a three year old we're talking about here....

Me and eXH go to parents evening together, he does book the slots because he books them to allow him to get back from work, but we both travel there independently and meet there... As for school plays, they're usually on for a few days anyway but if DS wants us to go then he talks to us independently. EXH is perfectly capable of booking his own tickets as am I. It would never occur to me to suggest that he should or might like to go.

The fact that he can't be bothered to check out the school's website for things like plays and parents evenings is surely obvious to his DD. Equally the activity he sees her at, let's be honest here, the only reason he goes is because he takes your DD, the one who his dd feels replaced by. If the activity stopped then presumably he would stop seeing his dd altogether.

He needs to stop going through his ex about everything and start communicating with his child. If she doesn't want to see him then presumably she has valid reasons which certainly seem fairly obvious to me reading the OP.

My DS who is fourteen has gone through a stage of not seeing his dad, there are numerous reasons why, but at no point did my eXH start asking my permission to see his child. He did in fact text one Saturday to say he would come round and take DS out for a drink and a cake and they had a chat. DS hasn't spent much more time there but at least my eXH has tried to communicate with him, and some of the reasons have become apparent through their communications which ex has had to take on board in some instances.

Your DP needs to do the same. It's just not good enough to say that the ex moved the dates so you couldn't afford to pay for DSD on your weekend away. She's his child. He should have found a way. Yes he could have been angry with the ex over chopping and changing the days but to state that you said no because of money is beyond ridiculous. I'm not surprised she feels left out.

I think all too often parents under estimate how the children from their first relationships feel when they become involved with a new partner with seemingly shiny new children and the existing children seem to become part timers in their dad's full-time new family.

Totally agree with Zombie and WannaBe. Your OH comes as very passive and dependent on his ex to sort out his issues.

His DD is 13, not 3, so why is he relying on her to discuss thing with DD and getting angry that she is not getting back to him? It's up to him to sort out his relationship with his DD, not her mum.

It sounds to me that the issue is not that his been pushed out but that he got complacent relying on her to do his job, and when she stopped, because she realised she didn't need to any longer, because he could sort things out with his DD directly, he didn't make it happen.

I'd long stopped telling my ex about anything school relating by the time DD was 13. It cost him nothing to ask his DD to give her a schedule of activities, parents' evenings etc... Life became so much easier for all of us when communication happened between the two directly.

Thanks for the replies.

I know it sounds like drip feeding but his ex got pissed off with ex trying to arrange stuff with their DD and insisted that all communication about arrangements was sorted with her as 'it wasn't fair on DD to be asked to sort this'. So that's why he still has to go through his ex.

His DD never answers her phone or replies to texts. Their landline goes to answer phone every single time he calls. Then either his ex or her partner will phone back a day or two later and basically stonewall him. He has never managed to talk to his DD on the phone in two years! It's not for lack of trying.

And for your information, there have been times that my DD hasn't gone to her activity and Dp has still gone down to try and see his DD even for a brief 10 minutes.

I am trying to get across how communication has basically been cut down so much that he can't actively communicate directly with his DD.

I was talking to DP tonight, we had taken DD to her activity, his DD wasn't there this week. I asked if his ex had replied yet and he said no but the last email said she still hadn't asked DD if it was ok if DP went to PE. This is the issue for me. She is basically putting their DD on the spot and asking her to make a decision she shouldn't actually have to make. She's 13 and there's no way on this planet that I'd have had any say over whether one or both of my parents could attend parents evening.

What it boils down to is ex saying to DD 'do you want your dad at parents evening?'. So DD has the choice of upsetting her mum or her dad. Because if mum was keen for him to attend then surely this wouldn't be a fucking issue in the first place? I find it baffling that there is so much angst over this!

As for school plays, there were always limited tickets, 2 per family. Those two tickets went to her mum and partner every time via a form which was sent home with her. Dp was never offered the chance to attend. Pretty shit really. Even phoning the school would make no difference, my own DD is at the same school now and it really is a strict ticket allowance due to high volume of pupils and parents wishing to go.

Dp asks his DD about stuff when he sees her on Mondays. She shrugs, goes off with her friends, answers with one word answers.

This has been going on for two years. It literally started when they moved. I am not sure what else he is supposed to do? You all seem to think he's just sat back for the last two years and made no effort. He has. He's tried repeatedly. This is why I'm posting because every attempt is just being blocked by the ex and her partner. Even his exes partner told DP that his DD was just going to stay at home with her family for Christmas. Dp is her family too.

Wannabe It was a day trip, not a day away. It was on a Monday in the school holidays, not a day we would normally have DSD. And if you can magic up £160 out of nowhere right before Xmas, fabulous. We couldn't. Hence booking rail tickets and the actual London Eye tickets way before and also using discount vouchers and codes. And as I said, it was mainly for my youngest DD who has ASD and had had a very difficult time. We were made homeless just three years after moving nearly 500 miles and having to deal with yet another change was just so hard for her. She had to deal with my DP having a major accident, having no money for anything at all and basically having had nothing for two years. The one thing she had been going on about was going on the London Eye. So i sorted it. I wasn't going to pay for a train ticket and Eye ticket for a child who had had no contact with us for months and had been refusing to see us.

As part of growing up children need to learn that not everything is possible for everyone. That you can't expect people to be available last minute - and that includes parents. My own 11 year old has to deal with that and why that rule doesn't apply to his I don't know?

I have always treated the four dc the same. Always. Dp was a bit of a Disney dad with his youngest but treated the other three the same. Ironically the last time his DD was here was the only time I have ever heard him tell her No and mean it and actually tell her off. Maybe that's the issue? I don't bloody know. it's hard to know when no one is talking.

But at the same time I have my own two children who I have brought up on my own and will always fight their corner. I will not let them do without in order to pacify someone else. I don't see why it's wrong for us to go out and do something without her being involved? She gets plenty of time with her mum to do stuff and also with her mum and partner. So why this can't be applied to us I don't know. His DD has several holidays and breaks every year. We have one or none.

It's like we must all be punished because her mum left her dad. Well sorry but my kids witnessed me being beaten up by their dad so I think I'm justified in calling the 'my kids have had it worse' card. But I don't, I'm an adult. I just wish that their feelings were thought about as well. There are four children (although two are adults now) involved here but the only one that there are issues with is his youngest DD, the only one anyone seems bothered about is his youngest DD. Nevermind that the others have had to make adjustments, deal with split parents, violence, moving house etc.

And that's what pisses me off. I've bitten my tongue repeatedly. But I can't get past the fact that a child from parents who are divorced seem to be treated as some sort of higher being who no one must ever upset. Because you know, it's not fair. Regardless of the fact that there are hundreds of thousands of kids who are brought up by single parents who don't expect this sort of treatment (and I would certainly have words with my kids if they behaved like this).

I'm waffling, I'm tired, my meds are kicking in and I know I'm rambling. Forgive me. I've just had enough of this. I can't keep overthinking it anymore.

She is basically putting their DD on the spot and asking her to make a decision she shouldn't actually have to make. She's 13 and there's no way on this planet that I'd have had any say over whether one or both of my parents could attend parents evening
I'm sorry, you do sound like a very nice person, but I do feel that you are being very much one sided in this. If this is how he feels, then why is HE contacting her mum rather than just showing up. What did he do in the past before they moved?

Dp asks his DD about stuff when he sees her on Mondays. She shrugs, goes off with her friends, answers with one word answers.
So why does he continues to act as he is when she is clearly not interested? The damage was done many months ago, she doesn't care to see or talk to him, so instead of hoping that day she wakes up with a complete change of attitude, he will need to think of doing something else, or giving up hoping that that day does come in the future.

I failed to understand what he hopes to achieve by going to PE when his relationship with her has got so bad. Surely his priority should be to try to convince her to talk to him about her feelings. Has he ever try to understand why she might be feeling so disinterested?

His attempts are not blocked by the ex since she won't even talk to him when he sees her at the activity. Surely if she was even interested, she would at least try to engage in some level of conversation rather than trying to get away from him as quickly as possible.

As part of growing up children need to learn that not everything is possible for everyone. That you can't expect people to be available last minute - and that includes parents. My own 11 year old has to deal with that and why that rule doesn't apply to his I don't know?

Indeed, but what is she getting but your children are not because not everything is possible for everyone. Have your children missed out on everything for the benefit of your SD? It's easy to consider that she should accept sacrifices, but they need to be reasonable. Ultimately, she had to learn to share her dad with other children, that's quite a sacrifice to make, so when in addition to that, they are expected to accept to also miss out on special occasions, then indeed, you become responsible for pushing them away. Have your children even consider her feelings that she used to have her dad for herself and suddenly had to share with children who are not his?

I'm sorry but I do think you are not looking at the situation fairly and the reason why your SD has probably given up trying to talk to you/her dad is because she knows that however she tries to explains how she feels, she will somehow be accused of being selfish and inconsiderate, so she isn't bothering any longer.

I agree with swing the reason why everything goes through his ex is because he allows it to. Possibly because it's easier for him to blame his ex than to accept that his DD doesn't want to know him.

I would concede that teenagers often don't do talking very well, but they do it even less if you don't make the effort.

As I said before, my DS hasn't spent a weekend at his dad's since this time last year, and at that time his weekday contact had severely reduced, so I think it's fair to say that his contact with his dad has reduced significantly over the past two years or so.

And the reality is that he hasn't always been able to articulate why, and in some instances it's fallen to me to be the one to speak to eXH because DS hasn't, and in truth neither of them are communicators, DS because he's a teenager, and eXH because that's just who he is.

But eXH has said to me on more than one occasion that he has no idea about this stuff because he only hears it from me, to which my response is "well then you need to talk to him, and listen to what he has to say." But even if I didn't say that, he's a grown man and should know that himself, and he has done on occasion.

It's just not enough that your DP rings his ex to see whether he's allowed to go to parents evening. He should be turning up there, being the parent, because right now he's only a person in his daughter's life and is losing the title of father. And the older she gets, the less likely she is going to want to know.

And the actual reality here is that if his ex dies, she will want to stay with her stepdad, and she won't want the comfort from her father because he's replaced her with a new family.

She doesn't talk to him at her activity, when her mum isn't there to have an influence, therefore it's very clear that it's not her mum at fault here, it's him.

He needs to be very clear that he won't be going through his ex any more, and that he will be at parents evening. Nothing less is acceptable.

I am always a bit at these men (and it is predominantly men) who claim that the ex has turned the kids against them/that they're powerless to do anything/that the ex has all the control, when these are almost adult children we're talking about. And I am equally at the women who are these men's partners who fall for it. Or who accept that the children don't come round because it's much easier to just have their children in the new happy family.

I have a dd the same age as OP and agree about the teens being crap communicators thing. Dd would be self-conscious about speaking in public where someone might overhear) I have a great relationship with her but how much we talk varies a lot. I've worked out that my teens are most honest and chatty when their siblings are not in listening distance so there's no interruptions or judgement.

At that age (8) I'd not have been impressed if my father had moved into a 2 bedroom house with a woman and her 3 children. I would have felt very unwanted and excluded - literally crowded out.

By 13 years old, that feeling could well have changed to resentment.

And I think that's what Ex and DD have been telling you.

'She had to deal with my DP having a major accident'

Just been lurking on this thread but had to respond to this. Your DD had been through a hard time including the above, justifies leaving DSD out of the trip. Isn't it DSD's own Dad who had been through a major accident?? Why does that warrant special consideration for your child but not his own daughter?

I have to say usually on threads like these the OP might at least concede that their DP has made some mistakes too. But according to you your DP is perfect. He hasn't done a thing wrong. There is literally nothing he could have done differently. I expect the reality is a bit more complicated than that.

Just to clear up a few points.

Dp has tried to call his DD on her mobile and texted her. She doesn't answer calls and doesn't reply to text messages. His ex told him to stop calling his DD and said that she didn't want to talk to him. In this case he really can't win.

He did not move into a 2 bed house with us. We moved into HIS house. And I have 2 children, not 3. He has two dc as well. His oldest was 16 at the time and has a different mum to his youngest although she has been nc with her since she was 14. We still have a very good relationship with his oldest, she lives in London with her bf now and we have been to visit and she regularly comes to see us.

And yes, when DP had his accident, all money stopped coming into this house. I was still recovering from major spine surgery and suddenly we had two adults struggling to a) pay the mortgage and bills and b) actually deal with day to day running of the home and caring for the children. We still had his DD over and I still did everything possible but days out, trips etc were an absolute no-no. We had no money. I was struggling to feed us all. His ex was hounding him for money for his DD and we were living off charity handouts. That was the case for nearly 2 years and it was an awful time culminating in us being made homeless and having to rent a house. I have since had more surgery and my DD's have basically been young carers for many years for me. Meanwhile his DD's life did not change, she still had the chance to go on trips and days out, didn't have to worry about losing her home.

The time of DP's accident was awful. He nearly died. I had his ex hounding me to get her DD into HDU to see him. She wasn't allowed as she was only 10. The only one allowed in was his oldest as she was an adult. She was getting her BIL to phone the hospital asking for a special case to be made to allow DD in despite DP being hooked up to god knows how many machines and she was giving me a hard time, putting it onto social media that I was stopping his DD from seeing her dad. It was grief I could have done without, 10 days before Christmas, in immense pain, doing endless round trips to hospital, dealing with my own kids, trying to sort out benefits and insurance claim. As soon as he was moved to a ward I told his ex and then I put onto FB that he was in a ward but asked that no one visit on the first day so his DD could go in and see him first.

Yes I probably sound bitter but it's been relentless over the last 5 years. Just relentless. Everything is my fault or DP's fault or my kids fault.

I am not sure what else DP could have done differently. He maintained phone contact but was told to stop. He tried texting but got no reply. He has still tried to do this but his ex says his DD doesn't want him to as he keeps asking to see her. He has stopped asking to see her.

So he isn't allowed to ask her to see him
He has to ask his DDs permission to go to parents evening (he's going anyway - it's tonight and as expected there has been no reply from his ex)
He is expected to ask her to go on any days out, holidays or trips but at the same time isn't to ask her to see him.
He is to phone her but not phone her
He has to accept that she doesn't want to know him but keep sending money, presents and invitations to the exciting stuff.

Really.

Sorry OP, but I am starting to build a picture of the situation that to me, totally justifies why your SD is happier away from her dad. What you are saying here is that he stopped paying maintenance (or at least the amount he was paying before), couldn't take her on a day out or holiday, and that is probably what he said to her and her mum at the time, but then found out, because it sounds like it was initially kept from her, that a day out for your DD had been arranged whist she was purposely excluded, and then after that, found out that you had made plans to go on holiday at the same place she was at the same time.

And you think that this behaviour from your partner's perspective and that his DD should have told him with a smile 'I understand daddy, it's ok you pay less for me so mum is struggling to try to continue to provide the same lifestyle for me, and of course I understand that you would go on a day trip with my step-sister because she deserves a day out with her family more than me, and of course I understand that you could still manage to afford a holiday, but made sure to pick the same place and time than mum because this way, you could justify that it wasn't your fault that I couldn't join you'.

Your SD wants nothing to do with her dad because he let her down years ago and from her perspective, she is not interested in all his efforts that have just been coming too late. It's two years ago that he should have been establishing contact her regularly, that he should have been at best not spending money to spend special time with and your DD rather than her, at worse, trying to keep it from her. He can't expect her to turn around and be prepared to make efforts now because he suddenly realised what he was losing.

It is not the first time that you say something about her having everything when she is with her mother when your DD had to do with nothing, and I can't help but think that this was conveyed to her too, that she didn't deserve any nice treatment from her dad because she got it from her mum. Maybe her mum struggle too financially but still managed to put her first.

I'm sorry but yes, it does very much sound like the situation is all down to your DP failure to recognise that his daughter still needed his attention and feeling that she mattered most to him.

I think you are reading way too much into this.

No, he didn't stop paying maintenance but that maintenance was now coming out of my children's money. We had very little coming in as he was previously self-employed. So the money was still going to her mum but we had considerably less. Can't have it both ways. So no, there were no days out from 2013 until the tale end of 2015.

I'm not sure how he let her down 'years ago'. She has been included in everything. Absolutely everything. Every trip, weekend away, she was included and so was her older sister. Every single time. During the divorce his ex got 75% of their assets meaning we were made homeless while she took her share and moved away. So his ex is financially very secure and money is not an issue for her. For us, however, we struggled and things like days out were non-existent except down to the beach which is free.

At the time of this day out (which seems to be all you are focusing on) his DD had refused point blank to talk to him or see him for about 4 months. I had found a deal and wanted to take my DD's to London. They have never been there before and I wanted to take them.

We have never had his DD at Christmas. In five years he has been refused every year. Ex states that his DD wants to be at home with family on Xmas day and on Boxing day they have a party so we can't have her then either. We have never had her on Xmas Eve as her mum wants to spend the day with her. Dp gets offered to have her at New Year because his ex goes away with her partner then. So as we have never had her before Xmas and never at Xmas, booking a day trip three days before Xmas was never going to include her because she prefers to be at home in the run up. It sounds like excuses and drip feeding but honestly there's so many little things and so much has gone on.

As for the holiday. Dp's cousin was dying. We were asked to go by extended family, there was about 40 of them and we all stayed in caravans. We squashed in with dp's sister and her husband, nephew and his girlfriend. My DD slept on the floor the entire week because we were so crammed in. It was a cheap holiday as the costs were split three ways. DD was invited. We didn't choose the location nor the time, we fit ourselves into the group booking. It was a last holiday for his cousin (who died just a couple of months later).

Dp hasn't had any money to spend 'special time' with me and my DD. We literally are on the bones of our arses at the moment. He is still struggling to find a job. He's had two temporary contracts but is awaiting surgery again. He has been constantly trying to see his DD for the last two years, this is me reaching out for advice not a verbal beating by someone who keeps picking up on a day trip.

Dp has gone to parents evening. He is meeting his DD there and will drive her home afterwards. She does not want to go out for food after but he did offer.

I think I am perfectly entitled to plan things for my own kids without inviting her. I don't always take DD's sister when I take her out. Sometimes I do stuff with just one or two and sometimes I've taken DSD out on her own, just me and her as has Dp. We have had happy book buying days (which no one else in our blended family appreciates) and I will deliberately source stuff out I think she will like.

She isn't a poor neglected child by any means. She hasn't been left out or ignored. I've got photos of all four girls at theme parks, on the beach, at our house, at family events, on days out.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the loss of contact coincided with her mum moving away and in with her partner. Funny that.

You've all had a terribly shitty time. But, you are adults and she is still a child. You need to cut her some slack.

The thing is that trip to London wasn't just you and your DDs. Your DP went too and she will feel excluded because it wasn't just a treat for your DD. It was a treat for your whole family - and she didn't count. At that age, she won't understand being broke or being ill. She will see that as her Dad taking his real family away and not her.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the loss of contact coincided with her mum moving away and in with her partner. Funny that.
The reason why I am ignoring this is because as WannaBe already stated, I also don't believe that teenagers who have had a regular good experience with their father suddenly want nothing to do with them because they have moved away and their mother have influenced them. Teenagers are naturally rebellious and anything to do to influence them away from what they love will likely to have the exact opposite effect.

There's a lot of resentment coming out of your posts, whether it was always there or it has grown since she's stopped contact, it's not clear. You say that your OH wants reasons for her behaviour, but all the reasons that are put forward, by her mum, by posters, you are throwing away as rubbish.

You can't tell people, even teenagers how they should feel so that it would fit within your expectations. You have build your family and made decisions around it. Your SD has felt excluded as an outcome, and it's not because the decisions were not made for the purpose of doing so that she has no right to feel so.

Your OH had two choices, either listen to her to try to understand why she felt that way and see if there could be some compromises to be reached so that she did feel part of that family, or at least felt that she was still a priority for her dad, or he could do as you are here, telling her why she shouldn't feel the way she does, how she has it good and should be grateful for what the life she has that your children don't get, and that she should therefore accept the situation as is.

He chose the latter and she chose to move away from it. He now wants to resort to the first choice of compromise, but he wanted too long to do so and she's not interested any longer because most likely, she realised that her life was more emotionally stable when she removed him and his new family from her life.

Still, I do believe that it is never too late to rebuild a relationship, especially with those you love, so I think he is doing to right thing by keep trying to be in contact with her. Hopefully they had the chance to talk yesterday, even if very briefly, and hopefully he took that opportunity to listen to her rather than telling her how she should feel.

You've done nothing wrong. You've prioritised the welfare of your kids and as a mum, that's normal, but it's your OH whose failed to take into account how the choices you've made as a family would impact on his daughter.

I feel for her, her dad doesn't bother much, her stepmum justifies leaving her out of everything and the ex is blamed as usual.

The trip to London sums it up, either you all go or none. You don't leave a child out.

rainbows She is not left out of everything. Bloody hell, I wish I'd never mentioned a day out to London. It's one day in five years. Would you like me to list every trip we all went on? Because there are bloody loads! Thorpe Park. Longleat, beach, parks, camping weekends, the list is endless.

Well DP went down last night and met his DD. The first thing she said to him was 'did Pirate and her DD not want to come too?' and he said that yes we would have loved to have come but this was time for him and her and it was about focusing on her. Her parents evening was amazing, she's doing fantastically at school. He praised her to the skies and had a chat about her future and asked her what she wants to do etc. He also said she is welcome to come and see us all anytime she wants and we would all love to spend time with her.

He drove her home and dropped her off as she had to eat and go straight back out to an activity.

His ex phoned while he was driving home (hands free - don't worry) and they spoke about her schooling etc. Then ex said that dp is 'hassling her' about saying she can come and see us'. I had made it very clear to DP before he left that he should make sure everything was kept very light, don't put her under any pressure etc and he took that on board.

So the door is open and dp has learned that she does activities four nights a week and is at a friends house pretty much the rest of the time. We just hope that my teen can pursuade her to come up for a couple of days during the easter holidays. I would love to be able to include her in the treasure hunt I'm planning but I can't do that if she won't come here.

I feel so sorry for you op it sounds like you have tried very hard with your dsd , in an ideal world we would all grow up with both bio parents and nnone would divorce but they do , of course you your dp and kids can do things as a family just as dsd does things with her family. Despite what others are saying I don't think you or your dp have behaved wrongly at all , of course we could all improve our parenting at times but your dp lives with you your children should be able to feel like a family or that would be awful for them , my son doesn't always join us if he's busy or something and if he changed his mind last minute and it's already booked that would be tough nothing to do with dsc being left out, biological children don't always do everything together , just a thought but maybe he's trying too hard, my friends father didn't have much to do with her as a child she's got in touch with him and he's not keen on a relationship with her which is heart breaking as she'd dearly love one, I'm going to go against what most posters have said and say for your dp to back off a bit let her come to you, welcome her with open arms when she does but don't push it anymore, it's obviously not working anyway and don't ever feel guilty for spending time as a family when dsd is not there, he should not have got into a relationship with you if he can't live as a family other children or not although it sounds as if you and him are fine so enjoy your time together and be there for dsd when she decides she wants to, in the meantime enjoy your home and family life

Thanks Jojo. He is a brilliant dad and stepdad. He is always there for all four dc and is a great partner too. Yes he has his faults, as does everyone, mainly his inability to tidy up the coffee table which is covered in his crap!

But he has been out at 3am picking up teens (his and mine on separate occasions) to ensure they got home safely, he is the 'go to' person for the teens when they have a problem. Although his older is 21 now but still calls her dad regularly and still asks for his advice. He has a brilliant relationship with her as well as my two kids.

And he was bloody amazing when I was stuck on bedrest for nearly 5 weeks after my surgery and he did everything in the house without being asked or having to be told. He's a good man.

He didn't even moan when I brought home cat number 4 :o

Does her SD have any Dc of his own? If not maybe she just sees him more like a father and genuinely isn't fussed about your DP in her life?

How headstrong is your step daughter? if she knows her own mind then its maybe not fair to blame the ex - it's pretty difficult to make a 13 year old have contact with her dad if she really isn't interested.

I can see why she would feel pushed out and excluded by her DF's new family so to speak - particularly if she doesn't have a blended family on her mothers side.

I remember my dad going off and doing loads of fun stuff with his new wife and her DS when i was a teenager that i didn't get invited too / didn't want to go to. I felt so pushed out.

However, now i am a mum to 2 dc myself and my dh is SD to my dc, he has one of his own but rarely sees him as his mother is difficult with contact. I don't see why i can't do stuff with my own dc without my SS feeling left out, so i just carry on as normal.

My dh's exw makes things so much worse for SS - I fear he will grow up resenting his DF and me and my DC. We often get complaints from her about days out she has found out that we have been on with my dc and not with his ds (as they have't been on his weekend), she even queries how much pocket money / treats etc my dc get compared to their dc. Its just not comparable in my eyes.

last year she asked my dh to pay for a school trip costing over £200 for their dc, he said he could afford to pay half but thats all. She kicked off and said that it wasn't fair as she knew my dc had been on that school trip when they were in primary school (they are now 13 and 15, so quite a few years ago). Like that matters? I could afford it, as could my exh.

I guess the point is, people get so hung up on fairness, its just not worth it. For whatever reason you dp's dd doesn't seem to feel loved and wanted by your dp and is / has distanced herself.

If your DP is a good man he will just keep doing what he is doing and trying to build a relationship with her. I think a letter is a good idea.

I could afford it, as could my exh.
I can't believe that his ex would kick off for something that happened before you'd even met your OH. That's taking the notion of fairness to quite some extreme!!

Her step dad has three children, all grown up but also with their own children now.

Ironically, when his ex and dd moved in with him, one of the new partners dd's was in an abusive relationship with two small children and was pregnant. She had to go into a refuge rather than move in with her dad as there was no space due to his new partner and dd moving in.

It is very difficult and I agree that sometimes the fairness thing gets far too much thinking time. At one point his ex was completely obsessed with what was being spent by us (and still is to a degree) and his dd (8 at the time) said to my dp that it was unfair that my teen was getting new school uniform when that money could be spent on her. We were honestly just gobsmacked that it even came out of her mouth - this is not the rational thinking of an 8 year old and had clearly been talked about by her mum. We had just moved here, both my dd's needed all new school uniform.

His DD is pretty placid mostly. She's quite quiet, her teachers describe her as shy although she's more outgoing with us, family, friends etc. But she's never been any trouble. I do think she's really caught in the middle and it's horrible. His ex has tried to have too much input into what goes on in our house, about who sleeps where, about what gets spent, on who and when and his oldest DD has said that his ex bitched about us relentlessly in the two years she was staying there.

I don't understand why. She left him. She took their dd, emptied the bank accounts and left. She's never given him a reason and she met a new partner before he did. She has told him that I am only after his money (he doesn't have any - I took more into the relationship than he did) and she has told him that I am a benefits cheat which is baseless and quite honestly laughable.

I have known Dp since I was 16. We dated for 2 years when I was 18 and then split up. We reconnected after finding him on fb years later and we are very happy. I have history with his extended family, I was there when his nephew was born, I knew his mum and dad, I knew his friends - I wasn't a random stranger - I was someone who everyone already knew.

We were honestly just gobsmacked that it even came out of her mouth - this is not the rational thinking of an 8 year old and had clearly been talked about by her mum.
See again, I would disagree with that. At 8, an intelligent observant child could very much rationalise this. It would just take overhearing a discussion between her mum and SD about how now that they were not getting maintenance any longer, they will need to factor in extra costs and as a result wouldn't be able to afford certain things any longer, whilst witnessing hearing the same when at yours to understand very well the reasons. At that age, it is likely that she would be able to judge the situation for herself and question why if you are struggling so badly that you can't pay any maintenance, you are in a position to buy a new uniform for your daughter. She clearly needed it, but it meant that it wasn't true there was no extra money at all.

I expect what her mum has seen which you haven't, is that before you came into the picture officially, and what she has probably has witnessed is your OH putting his DD first to suddenly making you and your kids his up most priority. Add to this some wrong beliefs, and some unfortunate circumstances (ie. accident), and all she was left to see is how her DD has been pushed away to make way for his new family. You've done nothing wrong, and your DP has acted wonderfully taking on your kids and making them feel cared and loved for, but it sounds that by doing this, he might have expected his DD to share his love for you all and accept the compromises without a say.

My kids experienced this too when their dad got together with his new partner. She was on benefit as a single mum of two kids. This move led to him stopping to pay maintenance (coming up with many reasons that of course had nothing to do with him), to demanding that we changed the days they stayed over night (to coincide with when her children were with their dad) and to give up their room in the process, demanding to have them at Christmas (before then we celebrated together),and then him going on holiday with her and her children, and when our kids found out, lying that it was a work trip.

Thankfully, they were too young to really take it in at the time, but as they have got older, they have been less and less bothered to interact with their dad. They do still go there more or less regularly, but in the case of my DD, it is mainly to see her little half brother who she adores, and for DS, it is more out of sense of duty because he doesn't dare telling his dad that he doesn't want to go any longer as he doesn't want to hurt his feelings, so instead, he constantly comes up with excuses as to why he can't come one particular week-end or has to leave early another.

It is hard to get the full picture of how one new person, let alone more coming into the picture impacts of the existing children. When I moved with OH, I made it clear that until my DC left home, I would continue to take them away on holiday, just the three of us, once a year as we had done since being a single mum. I wanted my kids to feel that not everything had to change because of MY choice to bring my OH into their lives. It was a small gesture but I know that the message was significant.

No, when his DD was 8 her dad was still working, money was not an issue. She was still getting her maintenance and was still being treated by us to trips out, clothes, books, toys etc. But yes, my DD's needed school uniform. That is non negotiable and we moved in the summer holidays to ensure that they would start a new school year here. They would have needed new uniform regardless.

And no, I don't think this is a normal thing for an 8 year old to say. It's certainly something neither of my children have ever said, have never begrudged me having to buy for one because they needed something essential.

I don't think her mum should even be discussing finances with an 8 year old. That's dropping adult issues onto a young child's shoulders. I have been through absolute hell with my ex, I have had to go to Court on several occasions to give evidence against him and my dc have absolutely no idea about it. Because it's not a worry they should be dealing with. But yes, his dd does know an awful lot about our finances, well back then anyway and especially going through the final divorce hearing and that's very unfair on his dd.

I think you are projecting your own issues with your ex and new partner onto my own situation. When I moved in with dp we actually had more money living together than living apart. Life wasn't luxurious but we were managing well and could afford to take all the girls out as long as I looked for some deals to offset the costs. We had plenty of time and were both relatively healthy.

When dp had his accident his income stopped on that day. He was self employed. We were very lucky that friends rallied round, some got in touch with various military charities who helped us out short term as well as longer term with food vouchers. Some friends organised shopping deliveries (or there would have been no xmas that year). And I kick started a claim for benefits which took 5 long torturous months to finally sort out. It was hell. And just six weeks after his accident his ex sent a letter via his solicitor saying he had to appear in court for the final divorce hearing or pay her court costs. So he turned up, no solicitor, really bloody ill, off his head on pain meds and basically lost everything. She sat there saying that there was no issue with contact, all amicable and no order needed. She needed all the money to house her and dd in that area until dd was 18. And a few weeks later sent him an email saying she was moving. Found out later that the school application was made well before the divorce hearing. She sat there lying through her teeth to gain the money, said that all contact would remain the same and then fucked off with it all and his dd to live with her new man. Am I bitter? No. Am I pissed off at her constant lying? Yes. And she is a consumate liar, very skilled in coming across as 'reasonable' while screwing you behind your back.

Dp lost friends, people he had known before her because of the things she told them. She told them he was violent and aggressive. That they needed to move for their own safety. Bear in mind I have known him a long, long time and have known his family as long. There is not a violent bone in his body. Even when my ex came round and tried to hit me, he didn't hit my ex, he talked him down. So yeah, all the lies, all the manipulation, all the drip feeding of info to their dd. You are probably right. She probably does think her dad doesn't give a fuck but that's not come from him but from her mum.

I don't think her mum should even be discussing finances with an 8 year old. That's dropping adult issues onto a young child's shoulders.

That's your view and I personally don't agree but no right or wrong, just different views on how to best raise our children. My approach has always been to be totally honest with my kids and tell them things as they are, just not telling them my opinion on the matter and letting them make up their minds up. I did tell my kids that their dad wasn't paying any maintenance when they were about that age, but I never said anything to make them think less of him as a result and as a matter of fact, for the first couple of years, their response was that their dad didn't have a lot of money and couldn't pay and as I had a good job, it was fair I should be paying for things. I didn't argue with them. A few years later, as they matured, they started to see it differently. As teenagers, with DD working too during week-ends and holidays, she realises that it wasn't fair on me, but it doesn't make her love her dad any less or not want to see him. I told them because I believed that being open about money management, budgeting etc... is an essential skill to teach our kids from a young age.

Yes, I am projecting my situation onto yours not to say that you are wrong and am right, but only to try to provide another perspective. In the end, you have a situation that you are trying to resolve. So far, you - your OH- haven't managed to do so despite all your attempts, so maybe looking at it from a different perspective could be the next way forward?

You keep portraying a perfect recomposed family life, one that your SD should have embraced with joy and happiness, and that therefore if she didn't, it can only be down to her manipulating mum. That despite you providing some examples where many posters have questioned whether it truly reflected the picture of caring and fairness you claim was offered to your SD.

I do believe that it was never your intention to make her feel excluded but I can't help wonder though whether the situation between your OH and his ex and the bitterness that arose from it has clouded judgement and your SD has chosen to remove herself from it all. I expect her mum would have a very different account to the situation and as such, it really is irrelevant.

The only important matter is that how it currently stands, your SD doesn't care to see or communicate with her dad or have anything to do with your and your kids. You can either accept it, or try to understand why she would feel this way. Focusing on why she is wrong to feel the way she does and how she need to change her attitude so to realise that her dad only has her best interest at heart is not going to work, so it might be worth considering what could have been done differently so she didn't end up feeling as she is, and acknowledging it could be the way to start rebuilding their relationship.