At what age should children decide contact?

[ClaudoftheRings]

I ask because DSS - 10 - is beginning to opt out of some mid-week visits (he's happy as larry at weekends) and his mother is letting him do it.

In fact, she is occasionally causing it by taking him out to visit friends until late (after midnight) and then saying he is too tired to come the next night etc.

Is 10 too young to decide that contact can be skipped here and there?

We have a NRP who never wants to see her children, she has cancelled her monthly weekend visits for two years

So I'm looking at it from a different point of view, but if it was reversed we would be devestated if didn't see DC for two weeks

It's a very difficult thing to call, but at 10 the reason the courts decide is because it's deemed in the best of interest in the child (in our case we can't force her to have them so don't even discuss it anymore the heartbreak for them in the beginning was horrendous) but in your case it would seem the RP is playing around preventing access (believe me as much as love DC at times in the past a weekend away would have been lovely for us! Not easy being parents)

I hate to say it but if it continues maybe you need to consult a lawyer - at 10 your too little tone caught up in the conflict

I hope it sorts out for you soon

Hi op were in a similar situation my dp exw completely undermines my dsd relationship with their dad if she unhappy about something. We've had to fight and are down from three days a week to one weekend day currently. However legally a child has to be 14 when they decide they want no contact prior to this a court would most likely rule for contact to both parents and it's the rp job to support this decision. You have my sympathy it's absolutely awful. Xx

wowis in Scotland a court will let the child decide from age 12.

I don't believe there is a set age in England & Wales law for letting a child decide.

Chicago - I'm not sure that would wash with the court system in the UK or here in France. My kids Dad is a agressive, emotionally abusive, alcoholic, and they went to court (aged 8 & 9) to stop access. I couldn't do it in their place and it took over 7 years to achieve. They had to go - its the law, just like school. When I stopped access while we were waiting for an emergency court hearing I ended up with a criminal record. That will be there for ever, despite the court (both family and criminal) agreeing that I was doing the right thing.

Of course children deserve to be listened to but often we don't think we want to do something and we end up enjoying it. I'd rather read MN than go to work, but I wouldn't get very far professionally in life doing that.

Most kids would rather play on a screen then do almost anything else so its a very easy situation to manipulate.

Many children would be a lot happier if parents actually listened to them instead of thinking they know better.

Well, of course they would, chicago - but it's not a parents role just to keep their DC happy, is it?

Let me ask you a question. If your DC decides, at the age of 10, that they no longer want to see you, will you respect that decision and place them in the care of someone else? will you absolve yourself of your moral and legal responsibilities because your DC would be happier if you did?

If you have genuinely rejected your dad for nothing more than trivial, childish reasons, and have never reinitiated contact, then I suspect you have been more damaged by the experience than you think.

(And if he was an abusive, violent drunk, then I'm very sorry for you, but your experience bears no resemblance to the situation described in the OP and can't be compared.)

Quite rightly, imo, phequer a DCs ability to make a decision that impacts on their future is not age dependent.

I went N/C with my parents when I was in my late 30's - even then, I could not have predicted the long term consequences of my choice.
Of course, at 38, I am accountable for my choices and actions and must live with them.

I'm not at all comfortable with the idea that a 10 year old child should be held accountable for choices they make that have profound affects on many others lives as well as their own. That is a very heavy burden for a child to bear throughout their lives.

We were told by our solicitor that at 14 a child cannot be court ordered to visit their other parent against their will. This was a few weeks ago . So whether it's how it's put in legal terms were getting confused about I don't know but that is certainly the info we have. ( In England )
It is absolutely true that parental alienation for any reason however subtle is often at play in these situations and certainly sounds the case for you op. I do hope not as its an appalling abusive behaviour by anyone's standards .

A child can be ordered to attend contact until they are either 16 or 18 IIRC. Fairly sure there's case law on it.

Ds started complaining when he was 13- I pushed it til he was nearly 15. His dad is nice/we get on.

Ds just wanted to hang out here/with friends more. Ex dh was/is heartbroken.
Tbh, I wish id done something sooner. I should have listened to Ds more...

I think you're right that fresh ideas are needed, and they will be again when he is older and things change again. His parents need a way to make these changes as they required and they need to prioritise his wishes and feelings, not their own. I agree that mediation would be good, I think it would only need a couple of sessions.

In this case the child is 10

A court has said the child will be with NRP on X days

It sounds like the RP is stopping this from happening, not that his NRP is a monster that child hates being with

It's wrong

parents both NRP and RP should make it comfortable for the child

A child can be ordered to attend contact until they are either 16 or 18 IIRC. Fairly sure there's case law on it.

I disagree. A child can't be ordered by the court at all - the orders are on the parents (and/or other adults).

A parent can be ordered to facilitate contact between a child they have a PR for and another named adult. Usually this order is issued to the resident parent, requiring them to facilitate, or make the DC available for contact with the NRP. It can also order parents to make a child available for contact with grandparents, or even former stepparents.

It is also possible for a court to order that a parent has contact with a DC - that may be stipulated as taking place in a particular location or method (such as phone or Skype).

The law that permits the court to issue those orders states that it can only do so if the child is under 16. There are other legislative frameworks for older DCs who are not deemed able to make their own decisions in court due to disabilities or impairments.

Sorry I'm jumping in on this discussion for my own purposes

prettybright are you a lawyer?

Apologies - my wording error. Of course the onus is on the parent to allow contact with the NRP. The day to day reality is the same though. My point was that the age limit wasn't 14.

I wasn't sure re 16 or 18. I know an order can only be made until a child is 16 but didn't know if an order being made when the child was under 16 could/would remain in force until the child's 18th birthday.

ellie I'm not sure why my profession is relevant - but no, I'm not.
Can I ask why you want to know?

Wally wobbles that sounds like an awful situation for you and the kids.
phequer hope I'm not derailing the thread either, but gosh no please don't let your ex have a floating arrangement! My DPs Ex pushed this, well basically told all my DSCs that they could from house to house whenever they wanted. Which like you they thought was great and a sign of how mature their mother thought them to be. The most serious consequences were for the eldest DSD 18 then.

It is an example of how there are so many reasons for a fair and balanced contact that has to come from parents, it's just too much for a child to take that burden.

Reading threads like this, I am oh so grateful that despite ex and I not being in contact in any way, we have always respected that contact was about the kids' need and not ours.

Separated when kids were 18mths and 4, now 13 and 16, and during that time, they have been through different stage about contact going from looking forward to going every week-end to not wanting to go at all. We have always worked through these and never put pressure on them.

In the past 3 years, it has gradually become up to them. The main arrangement remains, but with more and more flexibility depending on everything else going on in their lives. At one point, DS wanted to go during a week day evening for football training which he does week-end with his dad. I didn't agree with it as it was too much (1/2 journey on train, not back until after 8pm) etc... but didn't refuse. After a couple of months, DS decided on his own that it was too much, his dad didn't insist he continued.

I am also massively grateful that their SM is fine with the ever growing unpredictable arrangement. She gets along great with them so I don't think she cares whether they are there or not.

This means that we have happy contented children who don't feel held up as a result of their parents deciding not to share their lives together.

phequer - that's a risk even if you don't have a completely free and easy approach. Just a bit of healthy flexibility, like swing describes, is sufficient for them to try the telling each parent they're staying at the other's, whilst actually staying somewhere completely different, or hosting a party at your house whilst you're away . They only answer is good communication between parents and not allowing the DC themselves to make the arrangements with each parent.

OP - sorry to hear your DP appears to have given up on sorting out the problem. Nothing more frustrating than supporting someone to do something that needs doing only for them to chuck it all in and give up and mess you around at the first sign of difficulty.

We have a flexible arrangement for our eldest now he's in secondary school. He usually sticks to the schedule but sometimes he'll say on an evening "I want to stay an extra night" so I'll text his dad and let him know (or vice versa). That's our rule, we have to know the evening before and we make sure he's let the other parent know. That way we know to have something in for tea or if the parent he wants to stay with is out, he'll have to stay where he's supposed to be going.