50/50 residency

[ktt512]

Hi everyone, i'm having a really pants week and could really do with some advice.

I've been a SM for a couple of years and have 2 DSS's. We have them 3 weekends on, 1 off, 3 nights at a time. My OH absolutely adores his kids and our current contact arrangement isn't enough for him, it really gets him down that he can't have them more and it breaks my heart to see him tearing himself up over it. We have been toying with the idea of going for 50/50 residency because that is his dream. However, as you would expect, my DSS's BM wasn't keen on the idea (because she doesn't want to lose the money my OH pays her) and loosely agreed on the basis that we cannot swap any weeks with her to miss things like half terms, if half term is on one of our weeks then tough, that's our problem. This obviously would never work for us at the moment because we don't physically have enough annual leave between us to cover taking weeks off for the major holidays AND half terms, so she knew we'd never be able to take her up on it. On the face of it, this is a very fair way to do it, but we both work and she is a stay at home mum (she has 3 other kids beside DSS's).

So this leaves us with one option if we wanted to go ahead and that is that one of us gives up work. We can't afford for my OH to give up work because he's the breadwinner by a long shot, so then that leaves me giving up work. This makes more sense as we're ttc ourselves so (with any luck) in the near(ish) future I won't be working anyway. I get on great with the kids and I love them to bits (even though sometimes I want to run screaming from the house with frustration lol) and they love being here, they cry every time they leave and beg me to let them come back during the week. Not that it is all rainbows and sunshine at our house, I like to think I run a tight ship and there are rules for them and expectations of behaviour that they are, for the most part, happy to abide by. They are really good kids in that respect and i'm super lucky that we haven't yet run into problems.

Yesterday, my OH and the boys BM got into an argument about maintenance from the christmas period where my OH didn't pay as much because the boys had been with us from boxing day til 4th of Jan, it's escalated to BM calling the CSA and opening a case against him and her saying he'll never get more time with them than he has now. He's hurt, angry and frustrated by the whole thing because BM spits the dummy about all manner of things fairly often, he feels he has no control and that he's being painted as a dead beat dad when in reality he fights tooth and nail for his kids. Again, the idea of 50/50 residency has been brought up and we've got an appointment to see a solicitor, but he's convinced it's a waste of time, that the law isn't on his side, that it's 100% up to her how much he gets to see his kids.

I don't know what to do or what to tell him other than 'we'll see what the solicitor says' - it's not like he wants to wrench the kids away from their mother, he just wants an equal amount of time with them. But then he gets frustrated with me because i'm trying to be positive and counter his doom and gloom approach and we end up arguing.

Has anyone else been in a situation like this? Or seen a solicitor about this kind of thing? Am I being too optimistic that a father should have as much right to his children as their mother?

There is nothing wrong with his desire to have the children more but he needs to be realistic about the needs of his children.

Yes, it is absolutely not about what your DH wants. All decisions should be about what is best for the children,

And it is implicit in so many of your comments that maintenance is a factor in your decision making

Cannot understand at all who would cut money at Christmas time, whatever the "reason"

I have mine own dc and two stepdc I would be incensed to have my maintenance cut no matter the justification its a set amount to help with all expenses and I would be furious with my Dh if he tried to cut his exdw maintenance so please pay that back immediately. I normally side with step parents and find they get a very harsh reaction on mn but I am actually quite shocked at the tone and language of your post at no point do you reference what's best for those dc it's really not about what's best for your Dh and you. And wtf you want a different type of shared care (with 3 nights most weeks you already have it) but not as many weekends and for her to still do school pickups.

I agree, my DP has his kids more over the holidays but still pays the agreed amount of maintenance even though that was set according to term time contact arrangements. What kind of man would see their kids mum go short at Christmas

I think this thread has thrown some really interesting points about 50:50 contact. Things I've felt and suspected for a long time are clearly not unique to our situation.

I reckon Bluelillies has hit the nail on the head with a 50-50 type arrangement works OK for young children but increasingly doesn't work as they get older and then I think splitting the weekdays in half makes it pretty hard for either parent to really know what's going on with coursework due in, exams, school friends, GP appointments, extra-cirricular activities, social commitments, etc.

And this from Bananasinpyjamas1.... Neither parent had their eye properly on them, two girls played on the ability to escape their parents attention and got into difficulties, and they ended up resenting me as proxy parent

This is exactly what is happening with my DSD. She has become 'estranged' from both of her parents, is far too independent for her age and nobody quite knows how to handle her. She defies even the most basic of instructions and just does as she pleases to the exasperation of both of her parents and me. They themselves don't get on well and communicate as little as possible so DSD has found it very easy to lie about homework being done at one house, one parent forgetting to give her money for X so she gets it twice etc. Furthermore I don't think the school know who to speak to when they've had an issue with DSD and DSD will lie to them saying she's left her homework at Dad's house but Mum is collecting it later blah, blah - basically using 50:50 contact as an excuse. DSD is rapidly becoming a loose canon.

50:50 did work when she was younger but it just isn't now she's hit puberty. Problem is I don't think either parent wants her anymore than 50:50 now. Mum is very open that when she has her she's counting down the nights until she comes here and while DH has never said that (why would he, he's hardly here!), it's how I feel too. DH works long hours so it's me that usually has to deal with the fallout at school and everywhere else and I'm so fed up with it. I have my own job and three younger children to look after. I don't have the time let alone the inclination and it's just getting worse. I've found DH with his head in his hands twice over DSD this past week and I had her Mum on the phone close to tears last night.

I have a few friends who are very dedicated to their careers and have full-time nannies who do everything for the DC - doctors apts, jabs, school etc the result being they are alien to much of their own DC's lives. I have one friend who openly admits she can't take her toddler to lunch without the nanny coming too because she can't get him to sit down and behave or eat. I feel like a version of this is happening under my own roof with my DSD.

As pp's have said I'm certain DH only wanted 50:50 because he saw anything less as losing. Mum to an extent encouraged this by constantly threatening to withdraw contact if he didn't do as she said.

It's a bloody mess.

I'd think long and hard about quitting your job OP. I suspect you'd end up resenting that decision bitterly. And sorry, that was a bit of a hijack! Actually make that a massive hijack...

I wish those stories would start to get "out there" 3phase so we can start to move towards children having one stable home base again

I have said that money is a reason he isn't allowed more time with the kids, that is a fact
Except that it isn't a FACT. It is what you believe. It might be a contributing factor, but you do not know for sure it is the only factor. Very much like she could go around and say that his wanting 50/50 is purely to reduce maintenance. It is belief like this that means that you do think low of the mother, however much you try to defend that you don't.

When used in a step-parenting context is screams 'I'm better than you'. Whilst I don't doubt there are circumstances where mum is little more than a 'birth mum' and step mum runs around doing all the 'birth mum' work, by far the majority of children in step/blended family situations are more than adequately cared for by both parties

I've never read anything as ridiculous as this. It might sound like it to step mothers who clearly have an issue with knowing where their stands emotionally, but in a normal context, outside of this forum, this is a totally acceptable way to refer to this term to separate the two, ie. one has given birth to the child, the other hasn't. If anything, I think it is a compliment that in both cases, the word 'mother' is used. Why associate the word 'biological' to 'better than' is beyond me!

Thank you 3phase, your experience is definitely eye opening, although the kids aren't at that stage yet, I certainly can see how that's a possibility for the future. I think I have tried to express in a previous post that a stable home base is something that my OH worries they don't have - on an average week it's working out that they do spend more nights with us than at their mums because they are sent to relatives at least once a week. I can see how, with 5 children pre puberty, by herself on weekdays their mum probably does need the help and the break, but my OH would rather they came to him than to other relatives that he has no contact with and no dialogue with about his children. And the reason they're not allowed has been put forward as a maintenance issue. As far as I'm aware though he hasn't broached the subject of paying her the same amount a week regardless (and if they do end up going through the csa now) having them another night might become an option as I think a PP has said.

I understand your point bananas that I haven't mentioned the needs of the kids much but that isn't from a selfish 'we only care about ourselves' place, I just don't feel like I should be talking about them specifically in that way because it's not really my place. The point of the post was for it to be about my OH, not because we're money grabbing and only thinking of ourselves, but for the reason I just described. So apologies if what I'm saying comes across as a hugely negative upheaval for the kids, it's not intentional.

Swing, thank you for your reply. I can see what you're saying and I didn't mean it to come across like that, what I meant by calling it a fact is that she has said this very boldly to my OH many times, she wrote it plainly in a message just yesterday. I really don't think badly of her at all, everyone is struggling in their own way and while I might not agree with her words at this time, it may well be coming from a raw and emotional place and she does not at all necessarily mean it. People say all kinds of things when they're hurt, upset or frustrated, I was just trying to give a picture of what he is being told. Apologies if what I said came across as me being a cow.

As a previous poster stated you have really good access three nights out of a possible 7. Again its none of your bussiness if her DC spent time with her family members. Shes just not answerable to you. To be honest i think your far too involved in the situation and need to take a massive step back. As others said its highley unlikely your ex will get 50/50 when their is a stay at home mom. Regardless your taking them to school and back thats their mams job not yours. Your over stepping the mark your after taking that time away from mom. I can see why the mom has her back up. As a mother i would be extremely annoyed if my exs dw thought it was acceptable to take over doing the school run from me.

I don't think your DP will ever be happy with what he gets. If he got 50/50 what next full custody. The focus hasn't been on the kids but the feelings of your DP. Unfortunately when people have children together and split up this is what happens. Both stepmoms and moms have stated 50/50 access isnt a good thing.

Sunbeam - I have never said that she is answerable to me! I also said that I understand why she might like the kids to go to other members of the family but my OH would rather they spent that time with them. I don't think that's an unacceptable thing to hope for. I appreciate your input but I think what you've said is a bit mean. I'm not 'over stepping' any marks and I can't say as that I get involved in anything I shouldnt. I was just asking advice. And not knowing my DP, I don't see why you think it's acceptable to assume he'll never be happy and I also explained why the focus was on him not the kids, i'm not going to start talking about them personally in depth on a forum because I'm not their parent. I appreciate that you wouldn't be happy if your ex's dw did the school run in your stead, but their mum asks me to do it a couple of times a month already so I don't think she personally sees it the same way. I'm not trying to be their mum and as far as their mum is concerned she has never expressed that she is threatened by the things I do for the boys and she has said that she appreciates that I'm willing to help. We don't have a terrible mother vs step mother relationship, her relationship with my OH is the strained one.

Ultimately ktt as far as my experience in court went, the view is that as long as it isn't dangerous or detrimental to the children what one parent gets up to in "their" time is up to them.

Therefore your DPs wishes that they be with him rather than maternal relatives, whilst understandable to some extent, will not be a reason to change the status quo so id just knock that hope right on the head now.

I think you DP does need to try and find a different way to deal with missing them. I don't mean that unkindly, but hes already having almost half a week most weeks, so hes not actually going to have that much more substantial time with them in a split week arrangement. If you do week on week off - hes going to be missing them for longer periods of time.

Having experiencede 50/50 myself as a child (along with my 2 siblings) I can say that all 3 of us found it worked for the parents far more than it worked for us, and as we got older we found it harder and harder to deal with. I am glad that eventually our parents saw that and allowed the arrangements to stop.

Sammy, thanks for you message. Whether a judge would agree that time away from their mum's house at a relatives every week would some times be better spent with their dad was one of the questions we had for the solicitor. In terms of possibly having them an extra night a week, t's not a question of my OH moaning about their mum's choice to have them stay with someone else every week, it's just a question of 'well why, if I wouldn't be taking time away from their mum because they're with someone else, couldn't they come to me'. And thanks for sharing your personal experience, I don't know anyone who grew up with a 50/50 family dynamic so I appreciate the insight into how you felt.

I think the other parent should always get first choice above relatives and friends if they can look after their children and the other parent can't.

We've always done this. But then again we see each other as equal parents.

I don't see why you shouldn't get a night in the week tbh, if you live close enough. You say this is all about maintenance - has your husband reassured her that he won't reduce maintenance if he gets this?

My parents divorced when I was 9, and didn't do 50-50, we spent initially every Sunday with Dad, then every weekend. As we got older this dropped to every other weekend, because he lived an hour away, and we wanted to spend some weekend time with our friends.

I personally would have hated 50-50. I liked having my home, with mum, and visiting dad and I think I would've found it quite unsettling to have '2 homes'. But that's just my opinion.

I've never read anything as ridiculous as this. It might sound like it to step mothers who clearly have an issue with knowing where their stands emotionally, but in a normal context, outside of this forum, this is a totally acceptable way to refer to this term to separate the two, ie. one has given birth to the child, the other hasn't. If anything, I think it is a compliment that in both cases, the word 'mother' is used. Why associate the word 'biological' to 'better than' is beyond me!

Yes, of course, my experiences are 'ridiculous'. Thanks for that.

underthegreenwoodtree I completely agree with your comments about not wanting two homes. I would have hated it too. When my parents split up, I lived with mum, and visited dad. Anything other than that would have been awful.

Whether a judge would agree that time away from their mum's house at a relatives every week would some times be better spent with their dad was one of the questions we had for the solicitor

I'd imagine the judge would be asking when the children will see their relatives if their Dad gets that night as well as 3/4 weekends and also what benefit it would be to the children to change their established routine.

There would have to be a benefit to the children to make changing the status quo worthwhile. Not a benefit to their Dad, but them. I think one of the hardest things for a parent desperate to see their child more to admit is that the child might not benefit more from more time with them (I know it was for my ex when he briefly wanted my DDs to spend an extra evening a week with him when they'd been used to spending it with their grandparents - it would have been better for him, but they actually really enjoyed and benefited from the time with his parents).

I think greenwood has a good point. If this isn't about the maintenance (from your end) but you believe that is her reason for objecting, then why not see if she would agree to a 50/50 split but no reduction in overall maintenance paid. If your DH really is solely motivated by a wish to see more of the children then maybe that is a price worth paying to get that time (if that 50/50 split would also, genuinely, be in the children's best interests)

I agree with what throwingpepples has said above. If more contact is the sole motivator, don't cut the maintenance.

And throwingpepples, I agree there's huge scope for more debate about 50:50 and effect it has on children. I wonder if any studies have been done it now it's become more achievable and accepted by the court system?

I fully supported my DH when he went for it assuming it would be the best possible thing for my DSD. I now suspect we got that horribly wrong.

Personally, I think a child needs one primary carer. Obvs this is usually the mum, (blame the patriarchy!) but it could equally be the dad, or a stepmum, foster carer grandparent etc. I thought there were studies that bore this out, but don't ask me to link to any (!) - probably the research is mainly on very young children though.

Sorry - just in case it's not clear my post above, I still think plenty of contact with the NRP is good.

I think 50:50 can work for even teen DCs, but it takes a huge amount if effort and tolerance on behalf of both parents to achieve it.

Both my ex and I have made sacrifices in order to ensure that 50:50 works for DD (and it does work for her, she's made that clear) - and it's taken years to get the balance right.

Ex has had to tolerate being viewed by all the professionals in DDs life as the "secondary parent" despite his equal role. He's not kicked off, made a scene and embarrassed her. I've had to accept DDs grandmother, aunt and stepmum fulfilling a "mum" role in DDs life. Ive supported that, despite my own feelings.

Both ex and I have sacrificed career progression and life changes in order to maintain the stability needed. We've tolerated each other's company in order to ensure we present a united front when it matters.
Our DPs have had to buy into the commitment too. The role of a 50:50 stepparent is fairly unique - the DSC are not fully 'resident' but are not EOW visitors either.

It's not always easy. But, I do think it can be a successful arrangement for some families.

Personally, and from my own painful experience (as a child and a step parent) - 50/50 is usually for a parents benefit and not the childs. Like 3Phrase - my DSDs got 'lost' between households and it was pretty detrimental to them, despite well meaning intentions all round.

There was also more conflict, more manipulation between households and less willingness to take 'two sets of rules'. Let alone the sheer practicalities like bringing the right homework, clothes etc. I had schools ringing me up because they didn't know who to talk to and then child or mum would get cross that I was 'in the loop'. Several times an argument with one parent would result in that child 'shunning' them by heading straight to the 'other house', that parent feeling pleased by being 'chosen' and so on. Apologies... I could go on!

I honestly have never seen an arrangement like this working, but I believe you Petal if it works for you. You and your Ex obviously worked selflessly to benefit DD.

However I imagine the very LEAST it needs is for the two parents to respect, support and communicate with each other, and both agree it is best for the children. OP your DP cutting maintenance because you had the kids for a few days more over Xmas screams the opposite.

Sorry not Petal - Pretty - too tired!