To think that DP's and his EDP's Xmas plans are fucking stupid?

[Liquidlucnhlover]

DP's ex moved 75 miles away a couple of years ago. Since then they have been scrapping and fighting over who has DSD (5) for Xmas eve and Xmas morning.

We managed to get her for Xmas eve and morning last year and then DP made the 150 + miles trip to take her back and come home again.

The year before this, his ex had her for Xmas eve and Xmas morning and we had her during the afternoon/nighttime by which time she was beside herself, cried all afternoon and went to bed early.

They still haven't made a decision on what's happening this year, and it's probably going to be very last minute and 'couldn't organise a piss up on a brewery' esque as per.

It just all strikes me as very unfair on DSD. On a day when she should be chilling out, having a nice day opening her presents with family and tucking into Xmas dinner she's being passed from pillar to post, has to sit in a car for the best part of two hours (bad country roads from her DM's to ours) and having to rush everything to be ready for DP dropping her back or picking her up.

Inwardly, I think that at 5 years old it's a hell of a lot for her to contend with and that the suggestion of alternate Christmas' isn't too far fetched. I will also point out that it's not particularly fair on DP either who has to do all of the travelling as his ex refuses.

WWYD?

It really isn't anything to do with you and I would stay out of it. If it is really about what is best for DSD (and I don't believe it is), then it is for both her parents to decide what is best for her. Personally, I find it very odd that a 5 year old wouldn't want to spend that special day with both her parents despite the journey. Kids at that age rarely make a decision based on them being tired, so somehow, I would consider that she might have been telling you what you wanted to hear.

I personally find your comment about mum wanting to go out and drink on Christmas day very insulting. It's hard enough to be a single mother, the prospect of spending the day without your child when you devote your life to them even harder, but being put in a position to do so because your ex's new partner thinks she knows best what your child needs, that has to be a step too far.

So being pulled in two, being taken away from your new toys and family on Xmas day and being forced to spend 2 hours in a car is better for her then?

This is a support forum or step parents!! At the end of the day, if my opinion didn't count or matter then this forum simply wouldn't be here.

She isn't a single mother, she is with her boyfriend, the one she left DP for BTW.

I will also add that DP has had DSD every NYE since they split up too so that she can go out and get bloshed!!

It's all on her terms

I will just remind you that the last two years this has happened DSD has been inconsolable during the latter part of the day because 1. She is knackered and 2. She wants which ever parent she has just had to leave.

I've lived it and it's usually me who has to console her and try to put her to bed so yes it does affect me!

I really don't see how you think you know what's best for my own DSD when you don't even know her. You've made a lot of assumptions about me and I think that you're projecting massively!!

Ikea I wish you'd been my ex and his gf! For 5 years I let my Ex have our son every Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, the whole lot, as I wanted to not be selfish as I have main residency of him. But he never appreciated it at all!

So yes I do think OP in your case the Ex is being selfish, but apart from a court ruling, an alternative Xmas sounds the best you can do without pulling the child in half.

I will just remind you that the last two years this has happened DSD has been inconsolable during the latter part of the day because 1. She is knackered and 2. She wants which ever parent she has just had to leave.
That's what it was last year and the year before. A year has gone by now so how do you know the same will happen again? Maybe she has grown and now knows what to expect. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying that you can't be certain that tit will happen again and therefore push on a change of arrangement on this basis.

I've lived it and it's usually me who has to console her and try to put her to bed so yes it does affect me!
That doesn't make sense. Last year, she was with you and left to go to her mum on Christmas day so clearly, if one was comforting her, it would have been her mum. You must therefore refer to two years ago, when she left her mum, but by then, she was only 3. Surely if she was still crying after the journey, why didn't her dad comfort her?

It's all on her terms
So is that what the issue is about? It makes me wonder as clearly, you are feel very strongly about this (considering your choice of words in your title).

Of course I don't know best about your SDS, I believe her two parents do and it should be them deciding what is best for their child. If they are happy with how things are, then surely you should respect this and accept it?

We have never had DPs children on xmas day or xmas eve. We have them from the evening of the 26th all the way through to the 1st. We have created our own traditions (that didn't involve presents because Santa dropped all the presents off at their mim's on the 24th and all hell broke loose if a present was given before or after that). So DP didn't see his children opening the gifts that he bought until last year! It's grim for us but I think (apart from the presents) it's best for children to spend the whole of Xmas eve till Boxing Day morning with one parent and in an ideal world alternate that. Good luck!

Heidi, that's sad.

Can we add this to our MN MANTRAS:

LET all hell break loose!

Strikes me that at the heart of everything is a power crazed or bitter soul wanting to call the shots and have everyone dance to. Their tune, without thinking of the impact their tantrums have on the actual child in the middle.

A single parent has a right to make a tradition, but not at the expense of everyone else (assuming no abuse etc)

op, you and your dp need to listen to his little girl and inform her mother of what the little girl needs; stability and Christmas in one place. Alternate years, alternate parents for the Christmas period. You can negotiate over new year, if that's of importance to either one

We've done the same as outtogetyou and accepted that DSC stay with their DM for Xmas eve and Xmas day. We have them Boxing Day or even the day after and have a sort of second Xmas which has always seemed fairer and nicer for them than having to alternate so every year is different or splitting the day so they get pulled from pillar to post. In one way it's unfair on DH never having them on the day but ultimately it's just a day and once you get your head around the fact that spending relaxed family time together is more important than a specific date on the calendar it doesn't seem so bad. The kids get the best of both worlds and it's just become normal over the years so everyone is happy. The important thing is to put DSC front and centre when working out arrangements, figure out what's going to be easiest on them and then factor in logistics to make sure it will work on a practical level but try not to get hung up on either set of parents' personal preference, it's about the kids first and foremost and sometimes we have to make concessions to do what's best for them. Sorry if that sounds harsh but they should never be stuck in the middle of parents trying to get what's 'fair' to themselves when it's the kids who suffer for it.

I also don't understand why a father wouldn't console his little girl and put his own child to bed.

Is that a woman's job then?

My dp and ex have "shared" Xmas day for years. There's only a five min car journey so slightly different to op, but I still think it's shit for the kids.

It's about the parents not the child. Both parents see it as their right to see the kids on Xmas day.

The kids aren't allowed to take their presents between houses, so they open them, are rushed to put everything away in their rooms, then get in the car to the other parent. They are even given a massive fry up at mums so they refuse Christmas dinner at ours anyway!

Dsd1 has recently moved into her own place and tellingly is only spending Christmas Day with ONE parent.

It doesn't matter what the parents want or even what is 'fair' to the parents. It's about what a child wants to happen.

My dd is 11 now. She sees her df eow but has never wanted to spend Christmas day anywhere else but with me. She did see him for a couple of years for a few hours Christmas day and was always upset going and upset coming home. Christmas is very overwhelming for small children I think. In a good way but still overwhelming and swapping carers and homes during this high state of emotion always causes upset ime.

She has made a new tradition for herself. She spends the day at home. Boxing day she goes to my mums at about 11 and spends the day there and her dad calls in for a visit for a couple of hours. I would prefer she stays with me but that is what she likes doing so that is what she does.

Neither I nor her dad get to decide. She does.

OP I think everything you're saying is eminently sensible. And the parents seem to be squabbling over getting 'the best deal'for themselves and can't see things straight.

Only you know really if this would work, but in those circumstances I would consider writing my DH a letter/ email. A very unemotional and non-judgemental one, but outlining what is currently happening and some possible new scenarios. I would not be with him when he read letter/ email so he cannot react to it with you.

If he does see your point then he needs to decide to change the arrangement. If he doesn't I would be clear before the day that you are not going to be the one to fix things when your DSD gets upset. Unfortunately, you can't make either parent behave sensibly - all you can do if they won't is tell them how you will be changing your behaviour at Xmas.

Crossing my fingers things go more smoothly for your lovely sounding DSD this year.

YANBU! Yes, their plans are stupid.

It is my belief (and I guess it won't be a popular one on MN) that young children should spend christmas in their own home, the home they live in. Being carted round in a car for hours do everyone (adults) can have their share of the child is totally miserable and a terrible way to spend Christmas.

She should spend Christmas with her mum, in her own home and come and visit you after Christmas.

My DCs have always been able to spend Christmas at home with me, and then go to their fathers on Boxing Day. And my dscs have always spent Christmas in their own home with their mother. We did a special (other) day to get all the dcs together.

I feel very sorry indeed for your DSD, hideous unhappy Christmas memories seem to be building up for her, involving tears and upset. All for the sake of her selfish parents.

I'm the same as dungandbother....my dd's father has never had her on Christmas eve, day or boxing day after we separated. If I have to do the other 364 days of the year, the haircuts, docs appointments, washing, ironing, homework, ferrying around, and get no maintenance for the last ten years, I'm having Christmas. She goes 27th DEC and spends new years eve with exP . I agree with op, alternate Christmases in the situation described seems fairer on the child.

She should spend Christmas with her mum, in her own home and come and visit you after Christmas

I don't think that's what OP has in mind though as they are the one who insisted last year that she comes on Christmas day.

I personally don't think it is right that a father should never get to enjoy Christmas day with his child.

DSD just seems to gravitate towards me when she's upset. Her dad tries to calm her down but I think she craves a maternal figure if I'm being honest.

I'm pleased I'm not alone in this. At 5 years old she is still so young, I would find it a chore even now if I had to pack up halfway through the day and drive 75 miles somewhere else.

im sorry swift but I'm sure that one year out of 5 she would've liked to spend Christmas Day with her little sister opening presents together. You've just said yourself that no father should be denied a Christmas Day with their child.

As far as I understand, DSD doesn't have a particular preference for which parent she would like to spend Christmas with, she just finds the separation in the middle of the day when she's been up since 5am, difficult to deal with.

When my parents split we always spent xmas day with mum and boxing day with Dad.

Alternate Christmases would not have worked for us and tbh I don't think they're always best in other situations.

Your current situation is ridiculous and yanbu to question it - sounds like its much more about your DP and his ex than the needs of your dsd.

We do alternate year 12 noon Christmas Eve to 12 noon Boxing Day. I'd hate for DD to be taken from one to the other she should be just chilling eating chocolate and playing.

I work in Education so have 2 weeks off anyway and can celebrate Christmas on a different day and he normally brings her back early because she wants to or because he works in retail and can't get the full time off.

and last year, swing we had DSD on Christmas Eve anyway. Her DM wanted us to bring her back that day and then drive back for her the next day after Xmas dinner, bearing in mind that she refused to do any travelling, that's 300 miles in the car for DP in the space of two days, 150 miles for DSD and £50 worth of fuel in the space of two days over the festive period!

We split school holidays in half and alternate Christmas so dsc have a full week in each house to relax with no swapping around. So this year with dm from 20-27 then df from 27-school on 4th. Peace all round.

Transition from one parent to another can be tricky at the best of times - there's a lot of advice online to support DCs who struggle with it suggesting techniques that help manage the conflicting emotions.

But on Xmas day, tired, excited, out of routine, everyone else around them hyper as well? No chance. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

The long drive may actually help her deal with the transitions at other times - but it's an awful lot to expect of a young DC.
People forget that DCs don't know how to feel when they transition - happy about seeing one parent, sad about leaving the other..... It's not as simple as being placed in the care of another relative - they are literally leaving one family and joining their other family; they rarely view their separated parents as part of the same family unit.

slkk I like that idea. Until SD moved away two years ago, we ha her 4 nights per week (sometimes 5). Still paid maintenance to we DM which I thought was absolutely ridiculous at the time - as soon as
DSD moved away and she became RP, she demanded more money which she got.

DP and his ex both asked DSD who she would rather live with FT and she said that she would rather live with her DM.

DP and his ex both asked DSD who she would rather live with FT and she said that she would rather live with her DM.

They asked a three year old to choose between her parents?
No wonder the poor little mite has problems with transition!

I'd struggle not to judge a man who behaved like this towards his DCs tbh

A man?? He would do anything for his little girl.