What does/should maintenance cover?

[ClaudoftheRings]

Apart from food, utilities etc, what is fair maintenance supposed to pay for?

When the changes for CB came in, and DP's ex no longer received it, she asked him to make it up by increasing maintenance. She was serious.

She's a high earner herself then? Or she lives with a partner who is?

South American: "NRP has been living in relative poverty as a singleton - no social life, few clothes, no holidays, worn shoes, crap car etc"

This was my DP when I met him.

But elastamum I would not be with him if I thought he was under-paying his ex. Who would want to be with a man who took pleasure or pride in not doing the right thing by his children?

Louboutin37 if he's that angry why doesn't he reduce payments to the minimum and then spend the rest on the children directly?

Yes, SA, she is.

I don't think any of us would suggest DPs/DHs under pay their exes. However paying maintenance that is grossly disproportionate to earnings, leaving them unable to live modestly, is not acceptable.

I think using the DCs as emotional blackmail is not only despicable, but also teaches them some very poor financial values.

There's the teenager, sat on his dads sagging fraying sofa, pleading with his dad to pay for "essential" new football boots, as he always does and his mum encourages him to do. Meanwhile his mum is having the kitchen refitted.

Fine, it's up to her what she prioritises, but there comes a time when DCs can see for themselves the inequalities and where their needs sit in their parents financial priorities.

catmilkman - it goes along the lines of the other thread on here at the moment, he pays what he thinks is reasonable, not what the CSA said was the minimum, he's fine with that but he literally has no spare for himself each month.

"There's the teenager, sat on his dads sagging fraying sofa, pleading with his dad to pay for "essential" new football boots, as he always does and his mum encourages him to do. Meanwhile his mum is having the kitchen refitted." oh we get this a lot, more so since I've been buying treats for the kids and it has affected the eldest a great deal, she saw through it straightaway, and she's always being quizzed about who is paying for things, me or my partner

Louboutin, she may come a cropper, like the ex in the other thread if/when she hears from CSA that she is being paid too much.....

I suspect that she will. I'm of the opinion that if she went back to work full time (very much a viable option) then she would be much better off financially and his payments wouldn't need to be so high. we are literally funding her lifestyle choice. But he's a good dad and as others have said on here, I have so much respect for a man who pays over the odds. I just find it laughable that she thinks that I am now financially looped into all of this despite the extra money that I now spend on the kids.

Not too long until the eldest hits an age where she wont be a mealticket, I suspect the emotional blackmail will really kick in then with the youngest.

PS - no disrespect meant here at all to single mums on tax credits. I think its absolutely right that its there for those who need it. This lady doesnt.

Doesn't a CM court order only hold for a year though, and then either parent can revert to CSA?

I think the court order only last 12 months as well.

I certainly would not want DH to pay less than he should and can afford but as someone on both sides of the fence it is a figure that is so movable that I personally have never relied on it.

My ex is NRP to our son, CSA has varied from £3.65 p/w for the first 10 years to now around £30 p/w once I agreed private arrangement (and I know he only pays this as a panic because I may go to CMS now and he knows he should pay much more). He does have DS though and I know that whilst I could demand more this would massively impact on DS.

My DH has SDC ew and pays based on no overnights and we frequently pay extras. Take on hols etc. I am the higher earner so always pay more into our family income than DH especially when you take into account that I also get CB and maintenance for DS. DH had to go down to a reduce working week at beginning of year due to financial problems at his work (and never looed for a reduction), now he brings home even less. His ex can't drive so he always takes the time off to take to appointments etc.

He has a home with me that his DC's benefit from and whilst him and his ex were together they lived in council accommodation I paid the deposit for our home and the DC's will benefit from this when we both pass away. Mom still lives in council and works part-time with no desire to buy own home and no savings etc.

Now there may come a point when he needs to renegotiate if things don't pick up work wise or he has to find another job that is lower salary but over their lifetime he will actually have paid more because he is likely to leave them an inheritance with house, pensions, life insurance etc that they would not have from maternal side of the family.

I am not saying that that overrides money needed now btw just that even if he could not afford to pay fully he will over time. But also on the note of the new partner - without me part funding this originally they would have little or no inheritance.

Yes maintenance is a proportion of the cost of bringing up a child and that includes an awful lot of stuff outside clothes, school uniforms, books, toys etc.

My biggest cost is childcare for school drop off and pick up 5 days per week. He does not think this is his problem because he sees them EOW, has them for 2 weeks over the summer holidays.

I work, he works - he just says it is not possible for him to do any drop offs and pick ups - he chose to move 90 mins away. Problem and cost left with me.

His maintenance for 3 DCS, is £7500 per annum, it is more or less wiped out on child care costs for the year.
2 weeks of child care for 3 DCS over the summer cost £900 - £450 each
( he took 2 weeks this year, I took 2 weeks - 2 weeks to cover)
2 week of child care over Easter - cost £900 - £450 each
( I took 1 week off - he took none)
Extra child care over Xmas, NY and half term - £500 - £250 each
( I took 8 days off - he took none)
School drop offs and pick ups for the year - 40 x 180 - £7200 - £3600 each
After school activities - football x3, swimming x3 ( he insists on) few other bits and bobs - £2200 his share - £1100

( I will ignore the fact that he swapped his two weeks of holiday with 7 days notice to two weeks I had paid for extra child care and lost my monies on and then had to re pay for the two weeks of his original holiday and could not swap the weeks because they were now fully booked with the original provider!!!!!)

Just in child care his share - £5800, that leaves the princely sum of £1700 to feed, clothe, toys etc for 3 children. He will nt claim childcare vouchers - which are CM takes because that would help me out!!!!!

For those single parents out there - these are normal childcare costs if you want to work, they are not excessive by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes the childcare could be less if I did not work and was a SAHM and claimed benefits but I refuse to do that - he is responsible for his children as much as me.

When you only see you children for the minimum, the ability of the RP in many cases to find a decent job is reduced because they need to sort the NRPs share of child care both financially and physically. It costs monies - they are not the sole responsibility of the RP.

Who does he cheat - his children, not me.

Bigfeet21
I can't quite understand your situation, probably because I have never lived your life or been in your situation.
Hopefully tomorrow morning I can re-read your post and understand more.
I promise I will try to reply in the morning.

Bigfeet21,

Maintenance is what it is, there is no minimum, no maximum.

There is no such thing as a 'Non Resident Parent' any more thankfully.

Why does the 'Parent with care', and that is an incredibly loose term, receive all of the Child Benefit and Child tax credits?

Why are they not divided equally amongst the child's homes?

And when you only see you're children for the minimum? Try finding a job when you have taken years out of work to fight protracted court cases in order to be a parent.

I'd love your troubles after that breakdown, your life sounds like a piece of piss. Ignorant.

all of the Child Benefit and Child tax credits

that phrase is used so much on this forum - 'all'....as if these aren't means tested at all and every parent with care is given a set amount.

I should, of course, share 'all of the child benefit and child tax credits' with my £100k plus a year earning ex (no maintenance, self employed) who has no eligiblity to receive any kind of benefit when it is me, on my £25k a year who is paying all the bills and child-related costs?

that would be fair and reasonable, wouldn't it?

Your life sounds like a piece of piss to me. Ignorant.

Fedup, presumably your ex is also lying to HMRC then?

I still think a lot of maintenance problems stem from the fact that when a couple separate, they're now having to finance two households from an income(s) that previously only had to finance one household, and sometimes there's simply not enough cash to go round.

To answer the op from my own perspective. My ex pays maintenance but has been on and off and it's not a substantial amount so this month it will pay towards ds birthday party. I don't think of it as paying towards rent or food as I can provide these things without maintenance and mostly have done since ds was born. Even when I was a single parent and money was tight, ds had everything he needed including clothes and childcare was paid wholly by me from my wages and tax credits.basically I see maintenance as a bonus rather than rely on it.
My dh pays his ex csa amount plus extra if he he gets a bonus. We also buy extras including most of his clothes. Not sure what she spends the money on as she lives in her boyfriends too small house, doesn't feed dss breakfast most days, never pays for haircuts and hardly ever buys even a tshirt. Dss started school last week in blue trainers because mummy's got no money yet she can afford to smoke and go on holiday with her boyfriend.

Sonnyson. Why on earth are you calling her ignorant. Err so he has his kids 4 nights a month yet should get half the cb and ctc? Ffs.
So raising children alone is a piece of piss. You are ridiculous.

sonnyson - not sure what your beef is and no my life is not a piece of piss.

Ignorant far from it - my EX is not supporting 2 households, he is self employed and takes home in excess of 100K - fiddled for the courts and the CSA calculator. How do I know that - because that is what he was earning before we split and the business is thriving - he has not cut his cloth in anyway. Last year on top of his maintenance he bought youngest a pair of PJs ( I had forgotten to pack one weekend) 6 pairs of undies ( again I had forgotten to pack) and 3 T shirts. Yes he did feed, keep them warm and take them out at his expense. He also reduced the august maintenance as he had them for 2 weeks!!!

I do not claim child benefit or child tax credits - I earn just over the threshold! Shall I give my ex 50% of what I could claim!

I juggle, my job, childcare, finances and children - it is hard work. However, I would not have it any other way. MY DCs know the value of money and they know I work to provide and so does their father. His lack of contribution is not known to them - they are all under 10. It is not their business. They love Dad paying for business class seats - who the heck would not - and the youngest told me " Daddy says if you work harder then you could pay for us to fly properly"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I nearly choked on that one.

A week of holiday activities for 1DC in my area is between 120-150 for thise who question the sums!

There is all to often an assumption that the main carer wastes monies. I meet a friend for a curry once every 6-8 weeks. I pay for the baby sitter and everytime - he phones to say good night and the next day I get - "so you were out on the town last night! That is my social life.

As the partner to a NRP I am the one who keeps an eye on all our money, he isn't very good with money, but I am.

His maintenance payments are his own though, I only deal with our joint incomings and outgoings. But, I am the one who knows how much he gets paid, he doesn't have a clue. I am the one who knows how things like CSA/benefits/tax credits etc work, he doesn't.

So, it was me who suggested he increase the maintenance two years ago when he got a new higher paid job. He didn't have to as they have a court order. Plus we have dss more than the original order took into account.

We are now going to have dss another night per week. So, the court order was EOW plus one week night. That morphed into two week nights and will now be three week nights. So, three nights every week plus another three every other week. So, nine nights every fortnight. 9/14. More than 50%. Oh and nearly all of all the school holidays (we did all of Easter, both half terms and all but two days of the summer - with dss going to camp for one of the weeks which dp paid for. We did all of last Christmas bar from about 2pm Xmas Eve to 9am BD and this years we're going away from 19th to 27th with him, so not sure what days she will have. We have also done his birthday parties for the last three years).

But I have not suggested he reduce his maintenance.

dp pays for all school trips and after school activities and buys clothes he needs for being at our house, so there are two sets of clothes. We have also bought him two bikes over the last few years as ex won't allow him to bring his bike from her house to ours, so he has to have one here to go to school on (which also causes ridiculous logistical issues when he goes from hers to school and then from school to ours). We have taken him on holiday at least once every year, often more (this year Norway skiing and Devon for summer, plus Scotland at Christmas and two weekend trips in between). She has taken him once for a weekend camping that her dp got free from his work. She however has had at least three foreign holidays without her ds over the past few years.

Ex is asking for more. She hasn't asked directly yet, she has said she will soon be asking for more. Over 10% more. Dp wants to resist this as there is a cost to us having dss so much now. And he's 14 so we can no longer get away with feeding him gruel

He also often asks how much I earn but I don't care about telling him, I think discussing finance with kids is important. I think he needs to understand who has what money. I don't care if he tells his dm, my income is nothing to do with her.

I also take chunks of time out of work, as I contract, and he is always asking me when I am going to be working again - but I always get the impression this is more to do with whether I will be at home to 'look after' him as I did all of last summer.

My lifestyle is affected by this, there is no doubt about it. I cannot take two weeks and go trekking round India with dp because he can't take any more time off work due to having dss all the time. We do have holidays on our own as well, but not as long nor as interesting as I would like and would have (and did have) without him. My time and money is spent going on holiday with dp and dss. And my dp doesn't have as much disposable income as he would for us to do nice things. So I feel I DO have the right to a say in how much maintenance is paid - while accepting that dp has a right to ignore me.

I posted on a similar thread the other day about this, but in my case XH is paying the CSA minimum which is £27 a week. He was paying £50pw plus half of school uniform and swimming lessons, but stopped all of this in a fit of rage. When he saw a solicitor he suggested that he pay CSA only, and because he had one bad year financially for various personal reasons, the CSA is based on a one off bad year and nothing I can do about it until the end of the current financial year. So I am now getting half of what I was getting 3 months ago.

XH left in 2012. He has never had DD in the school holidays apart from a few days after Christmas. He has never taken her on holiday.

He begrudges every penny that he has to give me, saying that if I can afford a social life then I can afford to pay for DD's swimming lessons myself. The woman he is with begrudges every penny that he has to give to me. She knew that he had a young child when she batted her eyelashes at him. She now has a child with him herself. I would not want to be with a man who doesn't want to support his child. She could find herself in the same position one day.

I work full time self employed. The school holidays are a nightmare for me but he won't ever have her because he is "self employed and has to work". he can take a week off to go abroad with his girlfriend though.

It is all about priorities and in my life, I sacrifice things so that DD can go to clubs like Brownies with her friends. XH has a fancy car on HP, he has a gym membership, he has a new baby now who goes to waterbabies classes. He doesn't sacrifice anything so that he can pay more for DD or see more of her.

He is the Non Resident Parent. He moved 3 hours away then expected me to do half the driving to get DD to him. He was seeing DD EOW then every three weeks but now hasn't seen her since June.

So his current sole contribution to his DD's life is £27 a week. This is a child that he chose to have with me, that he wanted to have.

Why the hell shouldn't he have to pay for half of everything she needs? Why should it be solely down to me? Why should I have to struggle and work myself ragged just so that DD can have what I deem to be a comfortable normal life? By that I mean joining Brownies, doing swimming lessons and having a couple of cheap breaks in a caravan every year.

I have to pay for all school trips, all Brownie trips, residential trips. XH pays nothing over and above the £27pw. Her school dinners and clubs/swimming cost £22pw. yes I get CB and some TC, but the more I earn the less TC I get. Fair enough, but I am working myself ragged taking on more and more work and for what?

The CSA own website says that maintenance is for food/clothing and towards keeping a roof over their heads and that you can come to an agreement about including other stuff like school trips and clubs.

Why would any decent man not want to provide properly for his child?

I do think it's sad that most of these threads deteriorate into something akin to "the four Yorkshireman" sketch.

The OPs DH does not "pay the minimum", neither is he trying to avoid paying a fair contribution to his DCs needs. He is not a deadbeat dad, and the OP hasn't "fluttered her eyelashes" nor does she resent her DPs DCs or how he provides for them.

Yes, we all know there are some crap men out there who go out of their way to avoid paying for the DCs they've created, but accounts of those situations are no more relevant to this thread than accounts of last nights leftover recipe, or the latest episode of Corrie.

I wish OPs DP was my Ex!