What does/should maintenance cover?

[ClaudoftheRings]

Apart from food, utilities etc, what is fair maintenance supposed to pay for?

Also, a new partner is a fresh set of eyes, and more likely to pick up on, and subsequently challenge, any outdated/ridiculous arrangements that clearly don??t work.

It's often the "new partner" complaining because she's picking up the tab for her DP!

Sometimes, NRP only manage to pay elevated levels of CM when they are single because they live in relative poverty -no social life, limited clothing, worn shoes etc.

Then they start dating and move in with a new partner and it becomes clear that they can't afford to pay their way at home, or in restaurants, or holidays, because they were barely making ends meet as a singleton. He doesn't have any disposable income, and anything they do as a couple is paid for by her.

And, as has been highlighted on this board, additional demands for money by the RP often coincide with the NRP moving in with a new partner or even just going on holiday with her. The couple may have worked out their finances based on the NRP's financial status quo, only for the RP to request more money from the NRP once the couple have moved in together.

Brilliant post, SouthAmerican.

I should add that I am happy to make sacrifices and have done for years to ensure that DSS is looked after.

I know some Dads do/give as little as possible but at the other end of the spectrum, I don't like to see DP's good will being abused.

When DH and his ex first split up, the payments she wanted (and DH initially tried to make) were unsustainable. He literally didn't have enough money to keep a roof over his head and keep a vehicle on the road so that he could go to work. He was paying way over the CSA-suggested amount, and in the end had no choice but to reduce the payments. The ex didn't like it, but as the reduced amount was still higher than the CSA minimum, she couldn't do anything about it.

So when I met him two years later, the money side of things was fairly sensible, but the logistics were insane!

3littlemonkeys she doesn't get spousal support. In a few years time, eldest could be off to uni, at which point ex loses half her maintenance as DH would support SD directly. Ex is desperately trying to persuade SD that she should go to local Uni. The cynic in me thinks this is not for academic reasons. I don't know what will happen if SD does go, but am expecting the shit to hit the fan. I presume ex will also get tax credits (as maintenance isn't counted/deducted) and child benefit, it's certainly enough for her to have foreign holidays/live very well.

Also, re it usually being new partners complaining, I don't, and have never suggested to DH that he should pay less but I do say something when she pleads poverty, as I think she takes the p. I was supporting 2 children by myself whilst working full time on less than she has coming in. My children also had music/dance lessons and (many) other extra - curricular activities. Ex won't let SC do things like that because she won't drive them there/says they can't afford it. I do this face quite a bit, given that I've been doing the full-time work/taxi driver combo for 18 years now!

My divorce solicitor insisted on a court order for the financial arrangements for children, as she said that in her experience as soon as the NRP gets a new partner existing child maintenance arrangements tend to be challenged.

The new partner now has a say in money going out of the household for things such as school fees or other expenses for children that aren't theirs and tries to get these reduced, as it is money going out of the new family unit. She said this happens in the vast majority of divorce settlements she negotiates, even when the divorce is amicable and the people involved are relatively wealthy.

Sure enough - in my case she was right - thankfully the court order was in place.

Keeptrudging - doesn't the child support stop once your DSD is 18, whether or not she moves out to go to Uni? My DH has court ordered (rather than via CMS) payments but they were set to stop at 18. He's now supporting his eldest directly rather than via her mum.

At the risk of sounding ranty , I'm having a short career break just now while I do lots of major diy/gardening/recover from major stress, but will be going back to work next month. SC (who are absolutely lovely) have been grilling me on a regular basis about "when are you going back to work/have you applied for any jobs/been to any interviews?" This is clearly coming via ex. I'm biting my tongue a lot....

How much does your Dp earn? It's very relevant in determining how much should be paid.

elasta The "new partner" can't challenge payments that are made via the CSA though can she? The CSA determines how much they are. Only an informal arrangement to pay above CSA amounts could be challenged in any way.

The new partner now has a say in money going out of the household for things such as school fees or other expenses for children that aren't theirs and tries to get these reduced, as it is money going out of the new family unit.

That's an incredibly sexist attitude, don't you think? The poor menz, helpless victims at the hands of their new partners.

If a man decides to reassess his values and concludes that his DCs aren't better off with £££ handed to the RP and actually decides that they'd benefit more from that money remaining in their non-resident household, then why is it automatically assumed that his new partner must be behind that decision?

Child support stops when child finishes full-time education. If SD goes away to study, DH will pay all her costs/halls etc direct. If she stays at home it continues to go to ex for another 4 years. Am anticipating lots of heavy guilt trips being laid on eldest over the next few years about how much mummy will miss her/not be able to cope without her.

The thing that confuses me is if it's 50/50 costs surely the parent that receives child benefit etc shouldn't include that in the 50% they contribute?

Not sure, not my business in a way, I presume ex would just charge high board if it didn't go direct. DH pays over what he has to based on earnings, but this means ex can afford mortgage on nice house etc. I would be getting back to work, even part-time, sharpish if I was her as it would be 'extra' money she could bank for the future. I think she's got it all worked out, and it doesn't involve her income dropping for at least another 5 years as she's just started another degree.

I don't disagree with the sexism element - It is the NRP who try to get it reduced - but it is interesting that arrangements that chug along quite happily for years get challenged as soon as a new family unit emerges. You see it all the time here on MN, with new partners asking if what their DP is paying out is 'fair'. I don't recall ever a poster ever saying they were worried that their DP was underpaying

it is interesting that arrangements that chug along quite happily for years get challenged as soon as a new family unit emerges.

As I said up thread, I think that is because often, the NRP has been living in relative poverty as a singleton - no social life, few clothes, no holidays, worn shoes, crap car etc , and when he forms a new partnership, it becomes apparent that he can't actually afford to "live". So, either he remains living on his own in poverty, or he lives off his new partner in order to continue paying far more of his income than he can really afford, or he renegotiates maintenance.

As is apparent from the posts on MN, a new partner often brings benefits for the DCs too; a bigger, more family orientated home, more flexibility around contact, step/half siblings and a wider range of experiences during contact. There is often an increase in the amount spent on the DC in the NRP home when he has a new partner compared to when he was single.

Good on her if it gets her back to work, but her degree choice would suggest it's more of a hobby rather than career. The best way of getting back to work would be (any) work experience, but she won't work for 'low' wages.

Re worrying about underpaying, I did encourage DH to pay for SD's residential trip as ex wasn't going to let her go due to cost & it was an academically/socially important one.

I agree that the status quo is often challenged when a new partnership starts; a new partner is, understandably, quite likely to query why a man is trying to live on £32 per week whilst paying his ex £1500 per month, and if they wish to live together, then I wouldn't blame her for insisting that maintenance is renegotiated!

I also agree that the new partnership can bring a whole host of benefits to the child, in particular an 'extra' family home, enjoying the benefits of the new partner's earnings, plus some of Dad's salary, once it's been renegotiated to a sensible level !!!

Catmilkman: The thing that confuses me is if it's 50/50 costs surely the parent that receives child benefit etc shouldn't include that in the 50% they contribute?

This is an interesting one. When the changes for CB came in, and DP's ex no longer received it, she asked him to make it up by increasing maintenance. She was serious.

Cat - your post makes me realise that no, she didn't include half of it as a contribution from him during the years before that.

I'm all over this thread! to add my twopenneth to the NRP partner mention:-

My partner has zero disposable income after his very average outgoings and he pays more than the CSA recommended level.

His ex gets child tax credits, child benefit of course and both children are now secondary school age. She works 2.5 days a week and youngest often arrives for a weekend at his dads lacking the basic essentials that he needs, e.g. trousers two inches too short in the winter, no jumpers in the winter, shoes too small, hair is never cut.

Bearing in mind that my partner has zero disposable income I find it hilarious that his ex has recently had a sizeable improvement made to her house. Whilst all the time telling her children that they should ask their dad for what I consider essentials.

I've made it very clear to my partner that my earnings go towards all treats, holidays, meals out, cinema trips etc, I also like to buy occasional treats for the two children as I love them to bits. I think its important that he continues to pay for his children as much as he can until they hit 18 and then he can pay support them directly.

Interestingly though, recently the ex who sits in her huge house with no real need or desire to work full time to provide for her children has called for a CSA review. My partner was livid and I told him I would be embarassed if I was in her shoes. She's an educated woman, with every capability to work full time and set a good example to her children and instead she has naively thought that she can get her hands on more money for nothing because I've appeared in the past 18 months.