Changing contact arrangements officially. Sorry if it's too long x

[m1nniedriver]

There's been quite a few threads recently about maintenance payments? Has anyone on here been in a position of having to reduce maintenance payments with increased contact?

The backstory is so long I could write a book but I'll try and compress it!

DP has always paid a massively inflated amount of maintenance considering his income. When we got together he was barely managing to keep a roof over his head and also paying off a debt that his exw knowingly and borderline illegally got him into! I paid off that debt for him, bought us a house and paid the majority of bills etc so he could continue paying the amount anything for a quiet life The same as a recent thread she started demanding more money (I guess seeing us in a new house etc made her believe he had won the lottery no matter how often he tried to tell her). Anyway she went to the CSA, tried to get him done for tax avoidance etc. The amount the CMS calculated was hundreds a month less than he was paying . So he reduced the amount he was giving his children his exw. Not by a lot but enough that he could contribute more to our household. The exw isn't short of money nor is she rolling in it, she is comfortable so we know the children are not 'suffering' this much I know although if I said how I know I could out myself! A family could easily live off the amount if maintenance he gives, never mind the fact he pays for extra stuff too.

Fast forward to the last few months. The current contact arrangement has become unworkable. He sees the children officially EOW and a night in between. We live quite a distance from their school, housing there is extortionate and we couldn't afford to live there. DP is flexible as possible to take them out with this time but getting a text with 2 hours notice for an ON stay and school drop off is unreasonable. If he can't she sends abusive messages. He is looking into making the arrangement more regular officially. At least we know where things are at and he sees the kids regularly. He would need to cut his hours at work though. This would definitely impact on his maintenance and even though he we currently pay a lot more than he can afford I wouldn't be happy to subsidies it as much if the DC are here more.

Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar position of changing contact arrangements and reducing work hours? There is no other way of doing it in our situation. He could not pick up and drop off the children working the hours he does.

He doesn't but it's just easier than putting up with this shit! Having fixed contact with the children won't help her out with work but to be honest it's not out oroblem. She has plenty of family and friend options for child care, another reason I'm convinced she does this to upset DP.

There's no way she would sit down and speak rationally to him, unless he agreed with everything she was saying. Shame, I never quite understand how 2 people, who made 2 children can act like this. It's crazy

elliesbellys, she has to ask for a variety of reasons, one being that Dss would play us off each other. He would turn up here if he was in trouble with his mum or vice versa. Hardly fair for one parent to expect a child home for an evening to find they are no longer turning up especially when they are grounded. Not sure why that's so terrible. Stepchildren can and do play parents off each other. And no he can't just show up, we need to know if we have to suddenly find rail fare the next morning, along with school lunch money (wont eat packed lunch - another story). And fuck me I am not cancelling my plans to visit family etc because I am needed as childcare for my stepson when he is not even supposed to be with us. I don't work and my DH and his ex relies on me to look after DSS in emergency situations, but heck if they don't give me notice both can fuck off. And personally if you think that makes me a wicked stepmother then bash all you like love it ain't ever going to change.

m1nniedriver, Anyway we disengaged from what the ex thinks of us a long time ago, DH and the ex are never going to get on. Since DH has taken a more firm approach things have got better, no more last minute stuff and stupid requests to pay for this, that and the other. And before anyone moans about this, she tried to get DH to pay for half of Dss passport overflating the price of one by 100% (so he'd pay it full) so she could take him on holiday abroad.

Just like in general if you allow yourself to be treated like a doormat someone will take advantage of that.

m1nnie. my DH has been in the same situation as you and your DP - his ex's attitude was that his contact with the DCs should be entirely at her convenience; she expected him to be available when she decided she wanted or needed him to have the DCs, and similarly, would turn up an hour after dropping the DCs off to pick them up again if her plans changed or she decided to call in sick to work. What the DCs wanted was secondary - he still remembers them sobbing as she took them away from a NYE party he'd planned for them one year.

Eventually, DH did try and put a regular pattern of contact in place, and it did cause a lot of unpleasantness and drama, to the detriment of the DCs. Ultimately, the decision was taken out of their hands, and the court issued an order which suited neither of them, but provided the DCs with stability and consistency.

My view is that, no matter how unfair it seems, when a mother is unwilling or unable to put the needs of her DCs ahead of her own feelings, then the father may have to compromise in order to minimise the hurt and upset to the DCs.

It's not a case of doing what is "best" for the DCs, because that can only be achieved if mum agrees - your DP needs to decide what he can do to create the "least worst" situation for the DCs.

If that is compromising his life in order to be available when his Ex says jump, in order to protect the DCs from drama, then you and he need to decide if you can accomodate that as a couple.

It's crap.

we have had that too captain. Asked for an extra ??150 a month to put towards DD2s chikdcare (after changing jobs and hours without telling him). I knew it was bollocks because she was getting fre chikdcare. Demanding and shouting at DP to drive 40 mile round trip with ??70 for DD1 ... Not sure what a 6yo needed ??70 for at 8o clock on a Saturday night needless to say neither happened!

It's not best for the DC to have DH on call. He would do anything for his DC, that shouldn't mean spending his life dancing to the beat of her drum!

He is going to speak to her again, give it 1 more chance but if things don't chsnge we are getting solicitors involved and changing things. Can't carry on like this. Unlike when she wants something he isn't going to bombard her with abusive texts and calls, perhaps that might work though? Fight fire with fire so to speak!

Involving solicitors and "changing things" could make things worse for the DCs.

That's what I mean about choosing the "least worse" option - having your DP on call isn't best for them, but the alternative could be worse. A court order could redirect your DPs ex's rage towards the DCs, or result in more conflict and distress for the DCs, which could cause them to withdraw from contact all together.

I'm not saying your DP should just roll over like a lapdog for his ex, but the reality is that these situations are rarely resolved; they drag on until the DCs are adults and then the cycle begins again.

It could make things worse but perhaps it could improve them too. Things couldn't get much worse than recieving shitty nasty abusive calls and texts on a weekly basis. He dreads picking the DC up because he knows there will be some kind of drama. I know that if we upped the amount he gives her that would help in the short term. She knows mostly these requests are undoable but I hibestly believe more money would stop her acting like a douche! why should I be held to ransom and struggle every month because she doesn't realise how good she has it just as well DP and I have such a strong relationship. we will resolve it, just have to figure out the best way for the DC.

She is a controlling piece of work, but we are happy as a couple and determine to stay that way despite her best efforts!

Things couldn't get much worse than recieving shitty nasty abusive calls and texts on a weekly basis

If you read a few of the posts on this board, you might be surprised. At the moment, your DP is the primary target of his ex's abuse and demands.
If she discovers that she can no longer control him, she may well turn her attention to the DCs, particularly as they get older and become less compliant.

Sometimes, paying the ransom, be it financial or emotional, is the best way to protect the DCs.

When I first joined MN, like you, I was certain that there was a way to resolve these issues. I'm not saying you won't, but please don't close your mind to the possibility that you may have to accept things as they are in order to cause the least damage to the DCs.

i get what your saying but just to give some perspective on the financial situation. When I met DP he was giving her 600 pm. He warns around 1200pm. He was oaying 400 for rent. When he found out she was sleeping with his 'friend' he left with a bag of clothes and left everything else with his kids his ex. She was playing happy families with this guy 5 minutes up the road from my DP who had a chair in a cold house and no money because he was giving it to her. I firmly believe he lost it for a while and that she was abusive and controlling.

We now have our own house and are settled as I am financially stable. She went to the CSA and the amount was reduced to 125pm based on his income! Obviously we didn't reduce it to that but i ask for barely anything from him towards the 3 bedroom house I bought for his children, which allows him to pay her more than he can afford. She doesn't oay council tax, she pays reduced rent, she gets more pm that DP earns and she gets 500 untaxed pounds from us. Do you still think I should give her more money for the sake of the DC?

I don't think you 'should' give her anything, but it's a very real possibility that your DP could lose contact with his DCs if he chooses not to dance to his exs tune - because many dads do.
That doesn't mean she's right, it just means that the system can be played and there are some mothers who view their DCs dads as surplus to requirements.

Everything you say is perfectly reasonable - but you are dealing with the unreasonable.

She doesn't pay council tax, she pays reduced rent, she gets more per month than DP earns, and she gets 500 pounds untaxed from us. Do you still think I should give her money 'for the sake of the children?'

No, I don't. That's just ridiculous. Did you really establish financial security for yourself purely for the benefit of your partner's ex? Because that's what you're doing. And if your DP does reduce his working hours, could this make his job less secure?

What if he ended up unemployed, being legally required to pay the CSA minimum of five pounds per week, would you still top it up to 500 per month out of your pay packet 'for the sake of the children?'

A previous poster suggested you may need to pay ransom, either financially or emotionally - I wouldn't be prepared to do either. Otherwise, where will it end?

you shoulnt have to just rely on your salary to keep your houshold running

yet if he doesn't have the children half the time, it is the RP's responsibility to care for the children full time, take cuts in salary and generally struggle to keep her household running?

I'm sorry but I don't agree with southamericancuisine, I don't think paying anyone extra will result in less abuse to a child. I think that usually happens because children get older, form their own opinions and want to rebel against being controlled.

I don't also think it's a good example to set to a child that you can basically emotionally blackmail someone into getting your own way. If a father or mother puts up with this, then that is shoo win a child that it's ok to do this to a man or woman.

No one would expect a woman to put up with emotional and financial abuse so why NRP fathers?

Fedup, she doesn't struggle, far from it! She has a higher income tgan asap and as I pointed out above, very little outgoings. and she doesn't care for the children full time? What gave you that idea?

It worked fine but it's her that's started just expecting us to adapt at the drop of a hat depending on her schedule with no warning. When neither of us are in a position to do it she kicks off
Why does she kick off? Is it to suit her working or having fun? I think there is a bit difference between the two. If it is to support her social life, then let her kick off and say no. If it is for work though, that is a bit different, but she still needs to be told that she can't rely on you and OH to always be able to have contact when it suits her.

Just read the second page! I get the gut feeling that there is a lot of assumptions and fingers pointing on both sides and I get the feeling that a lot of the problems is that things have changed a lot since you arrived on the scene and supported by you, your OH has decided to change the rules. She probably takes it personally, she probably suspect you are behind it, and has concluded that you are doing it to make her life miserable, so she now is firing back every way she can.

I really do think that the best thing to do is to stay out of it all and let your OH and sort out arrangement in regards to money and contact between themselves. You say that she won't listen to anything at the moment, sounds like she is seriously pissed off and full of anger. I would therefore let dogs lie down until she calms down a bit and your OH can then start discussions with her again when things are less tense. Negotiating with someone who is angry never leads to anything positive.

It's both, I gave an example up abit about her friends coming round for cocktails it doesn't really make any difference I don't think. Whether it's work or social it doesn't matter. If we can help we do but if we can't we can't. I know that she gets at least 3-4 weeks notice of shifts so phoning at 4 in the afternoon asking DP to take DC for the night because she has a night shift and going nuts if he can't is not acceptable. It's takingvthe piss

Nothing has changed for her since I 'came on the scene'? Plenty has changed for DP for the positive perhsps that is her issue. Your right, I should just stay out of it so I'll take my 350 quid every month and disengage from the situation

What would happen if he said to her "please tell me when you'll want me to have the kids over the next 3 weeks when you're working?" Is that really a conversation he's not able to initiate?

I know that she gets at least 3-4 weeks notice of shifts so phoning at 4 in the afternoon asking DP to take DC for the night because she has a night shift and going nuts if he can't is not acceptable. It's takingvthe piss

Asking so late in the day is unreasonable, going nuts when he says no is irrational, but really, how is it impacting on you and your DP?

Shes abusive towards him which is unacceptable - but he only has two choices. Ignore her or get worked up about it. What he can't do is change her. He can't change her.

She might well be abusive and unreasonable, but she's the woman he had DCs with, and the woman who is their primary carer.

If she's not withholding contact, and not taking it out on the DCs, then pick your battles. If you consistently ignore her raving, don't react, then eventually she might stop.

Of course he has yellow, she doesn't care. Of course she says she will but she diesnt. Thanks for all your redponses and suggestions though. DP is speaking to her tonight, last time ... Apparently this is after a message this afternoon telling him he had the children tomorrow night. It's fine, we can take them tomorrow night and DP can drop at school thank god!