Zookeeper- Do you know what a directions hearing is all about

[chocolatebirdy]

Hi, i noticed on another thread that you work in family law and just wonderd if you would be able to tell me what to expect to go on at a directions hearing as we have one next week. Due to costs we do not have a solicitor we can ask. Thanks in advance for any light you are able to shed on this.

I don't know what yours is for but as a general rule they just brief hearings in Judge's chambers (which are like small offices) with all the parties present. They normally take place in front of a district judge - you will be sitting at one side of a table and your ex? opposite you with his solicitor if he has one.

If its something like an application for contact the point of the directions hearing is really just to hear a synopsis of what the main issues are and to decide what to do next.Sometimes the Cafcass officer will be there and talk to you both before you go in to get a feel for the case.

At this stage, the judge will not be interested in hearing much more than that. If it is a contact matter he will probably just appoint a Cafcass officer to prepare a report and order that you all come back in 6-12 weeks (depending on the court)to consider the report. The hearings are normally only about 15 minutes long.

IME judges are very helpful to people without a solicitor and bend over backwards to help them and to explain what is going on - it's the solcitors they can be rotten to!

If you are able to come to an agreement with your ex(I'm presuming away here) the judge can make an order in those terms there and then and that will be the end of the matter.

Hope this helps - best advice I can give is to stay calm and not be riled. If it helps, bring some notes of what you want to say.

Thanks for your help. My DP has a directions hearing soon regarding contact he has with his dd. There is already a court order in place which stated that his ex must bring her to him on the first day of contact, and he returns her on the last day of contact. His ex stopped doing the journey earlier this year when she became pregnant. She has now had the baby and is refusing to reconsider doing the journey until June 07 earliest,as she is saying she has no-one to look after her new baby whilst dong the journey she is supposed to be doing (neither dp or his ex have car so journey done by train). She did not get permission from the court and he has been doing the journey in he meantime. What do you think his chances are of the order being enforced? She lives 60 miles away and he doesn't get his 7 year old daughter back until 11.40pm on a Friday night. Is there anything he should / shouldn't say to the cafcas officer?

Any advice much appreciated

Hi chocolatebirdy. Zookeeper may well put me right on this, but I'm afraid I think the Court might think your dp is being inflexible with the arrangements. It sounds like this Friday night journey is done at night, and I think it's fair enough not to want to do that when pregnant or with a baby. It's not as if she is saying he can't see his daughter.

There is no reason why a court order can't be changed, as long as both parties are agreeing. The only reason one is necessary in the first place is because they can't agree.

What are his reasons for not wanting to change the arrangements?

Fair play to him though for making that journey by public transport, he's obviously committed to seeing his dd.

Hi. I don't think the court will insist ex take dd and newborn on a train each Friday night but on the other hand it's not ideal for dd to be ariving so late on a Friday.

the court will be looking for some sort of compromise - maybe Sat morning or your dp travels down on Friday night and collects dd Saturday morning unitl new baby is older.

Difficult to suggest a solution that works for all concerned

They have always had a contact order in place since dsd was 2.Their agreed contact was 3 weekends out of 4 sat am til sunday pm to arrange on a month to month basis. Just before ex left the area they went back to court as ex wanted to change contact to what it is now. Dp was not exactly happy with this as it took away any kind of flexibilty for family birthdays, friends parties etc but agreed in the end to do it that way. After ex left the area the collection on a friday became an issue due to the time scale involved. So back to the court it went and the court agreed that it was not ldeal and that as dps ex does not work she could arrive in our area by 6.30pm and dd would not be travelling on a train late at night.

So is your dp suggesting going back to the original arrangement? I agree it is late for a 7 year old to be travelling as well, and it sounds like that would be a solution that means that his x plus baby or your dp plus dd will be travelling late on a Friday.

(When dp was doing it as he works in london and has to get the train straight from work the earliest he can get her home is 11.40pm)DP must cover all costs and pays for taxis from her home to station and back. When his ex became pregnant dp said he was happy that her partner did the journey in her place. She disagreed. Dp then said that he would do it for her for the final 3 months of pregnancy an until 10 weeks after the birth. He then got a letter from her solicitor saying she will look to review arrangements in june 07. (Her partner does not work either and is home all day so we cant see why he will not look after new baby on a friday eve he is always watching tv when dp arrives to collect dd so he is not busy)Dp then suggested mediation to discuss how to go forward, he booked a session in her home town and booked the day off work. Another letter arrived, she was refusing to go. Sat am is not ideal as it will really limit the time he has to spend with her, if dp got the 6am train he would not get her home til lunchtime and then has to leave again at 1pm sunday to get her home again. (Due to sunday services dp does not get home until 8pm) So he would never have a full day with her to do anything. Thank you both for advice on this.

Sorry second message was a continuation of first, had to put dinner on!!

Ok, well that puts a different perspective on it! I don't know why I didn't twig that if she's got a new baby there would be a partner around. I suppose not everyone does have a partner.

So partner doesn't work, he could either bring dsd himself, or be at home while her mum brings her. But they're refusing to do either, or go to mediation to sort it out. So you either have a 7 year old travelling late at night or having the amount of contact with her father reduced.

In that case can I do a U turn? .

It's really frustrating isn't it? Dh has a court order for contact with his dd and I can remember how difficult it all was while the court case was on.

My advice would be to calmly and reasonably explain to the CAFCASS Officer what your situation is, and why what you are asking for is in the best interests of your step-daughter.

Thanks for all your help, the big day is tomorrow and we know that dps ex is at least planning to show up as she is travelling up this way tonight to stay at her mothers who lives just down the road from us. We know this as when dp spoke to his dd today she told him she was not going to school tommorrow and had to go and stay at nannys tonight as daddy was making mummy go to court! God only knows what to expect tomorrow...... Will keep you posted.

What an awful situation for your DP!
The obvious thing would be for the DP of the ex to mind the baby whilst she takes DD. However, the court can't order DP to look after the baby and if she turns up saying that he won't do it then the court will be limited in what it can order.

What is going to happen in June 2007 to change things? did the solicitor say? It sounds odd.The baby will still be young then.

Is the directions hearing a review hearing or the first hearing of an application to enforce the existing order?

Are things between them very hostile? Presumably if they have got to court they are. Are there any family members who could help with the toing and froing?

I know this is wildly presumptious, but is gtting a car not an option?

whatever happens tell him to keep cool and calm tomorrow - his commitment to his child is very evident and will speak volumes.

We had a car but had to get it scrapped as we couldnt afford to keep getting it fixed! Although my dp is on a good salary he has me, our ds and my dd to support and his csa payments to his dd so we are at a minus at the end of the month. It costs £90 a month for the journey alone each month so if the contact was to change to weekly the costs would double and i have no idea how we will afford to meet the additional expence.

The hearing is the first application asking for the existing order to be enforced. Do you think this will drag on for weeks yet?

The summer train time table starts in june which is where the whole june thing comes from!

Things are terrible beetween them, she will not talk to him about anything says that everything must go through her solicitor. Solicitor then says that dp must talk with ex so alot of time is spent banging his head against a brick wall!(Think her solicitor is even fed up with it.)

Thankyou so much for your help on this

i think the best thing to do is to go along and say what has been said - best write it down in point form so he doesn't get overwhelmed - it's so hard to keep calm when it's your child.

i really don't know what else to suggest - from what you say it is not likely to be resoved tomorrow (it could be if they are able to come to an agreement) the most likely outcome is that the court will order another Cafcass report and there will be a further hearing in 6-12 weeks time to consider it and to try to come to an agreement. He should hang on n there as eventually she will run out of excuses.

Buying an old banger might work out cheaper than £90 a month?

Lets hope for a sensible outcome all round. Need to drill into dp to remain calm as his frustration really does not need to be getting the better of him! Thanks again, you and surfermum really have helped. Will let you know how it went.

If it helps, we've been there too with the insisting everything is dealt with by the solicitor thing, and the "you're only doing this to get at me" (ummmm, no I'm doing it because I want to have regular contact with my daughter). We're now 8 years down the line and things are so much better between dh and his x. She will agree to change weekends and offers extra contact, and dh even gets invited in for a cuppa when he gets there. And that's something I never thought would happen. Of course, I'm a different story, I don't think she'll ever speak to me (and she ended the relationship so it wasn't like I'm the "other women") but hey, I can live with that!

Good luck for tomorrow and come and let us know how you get on.

yes good luck tomorrow

how did it go chocolatebirdy?

It didnt go well! DP still has to do all the journeys dispite the late hour. DPs ex produced a letter from her GP saying that she is suffering from stress and that he recommends that she does not do the journey. The judge did say that they will go back the first date avaliable after 1.06.07 to review this situation as he agreed with dp and caff-cass that the current situation was unacceptable. DPs ex would not comprimise on anything and said she just wanted to leave it to judge to decide. Her partner cant help with anything as is going blind in one eye. It was suggested that i could go and pick up dsd on friday at an earlier time as not working but dp pointed out that i would be unwilling to drag dd (8) and ds (15months) with me and that dd has brownies at 5.30!
Lets hope that the ex has got over her stress by june! SO final result is that until june that half of dps contacts will now start on sat am and the other half fri pm.

oh dear - tell him to hang on in there until June by which time hopefully she will have run out of excuses.

It's so frustrating isn't it? He sounds like he's doing his level best and deserves a lot of credit.

suggest he keeps a brief diary of contact so he can explain in june how it has been going.

No harm in writing to her solicitors (if she has them) say in February to ask if she can help out a bit again as he is finding it a bit tough. Keep the letter calm and reasonable so that in June the Court will see that he has tried his best to make this work. Good luck

She does have a solicitor and she was actually very nice and did seem sympathetic to the whole situation and said she would encourage ex to comprimise , unfortunatly it didnt work! Good idea about the diary. Cheers, thanks for helping out with all of this. we will most certainly hang in there.

Oh chocolatebirdy. I'm sorry. At least it's being reviewed in June and isn't a final order.

Is there any chance you could save for a car? My car packed up last December and in desperation as I needed a car straight away we bought an old Mondeo off a cousin for £125, the plan being that it would give me time to look around for a newer car. I never got round to doing that and it's still going strong a year later. Fords are great.

I joke that I've spent more on my shopping at Tesco than I did on my car. DH despairs because I was driving a BMW before and I prefer the banger! A car's a car to me.

Anyway sorry it didn't go the way you wanted today. How are you feeling about it?

isn't that funny? I drive rouind in an old Ford Mondeo that I bought for £150 - brilliant cars - and don't get me started baout the size of the boot! Huuuuuuuuuge! don't have to worrry about scratching/denting it. I don't even bother locking it. I can't understand people who spend lots of money on cars (not that I have the choice!)

Wow zookeeper how funny! I'm going to wait until it packs up and then get another banger.